Ukrainian Conflict

[milan kyuubi]

Just look at them? I am just lucky my country is on good terms with Russia!

[Ithekro]

They've been doing that since at least Stalin.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

They've been doing that since at least Stalin.

Not to mention small African dictators and even North Korea does these things.

It is just propaganda and impresses no one. The real powerful weapons are those you don't show at parades. To be able to march well hardly corresponds to a soldier's ability to fight in this day and age.

[Ithekro]

I don't recall the Americans doing parades quite like that. I don't recall waves and waves of armor going down the streets anyway. Maybe formations of men, and a few tanks and jeeps, but I don't recall enless hardware displays of propaganda by the Americans. At least not on the streets of say New York, since that would be were we would have such a parade rather than Los Angeles or Chicago (definately not San Francisco...too many hills and narrow streets).

At least not since World War II or maybe the 1950s.

Instead we send a Carrier Group to the region we want to impress.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

It's just that... Parades are what nations do before they had televisions. It used to be a display of military might, but these days it just seems old fashioned. For example the US now hire Hollywood films to spread military propaganda. Much more effective than parades. It just seems like the days of goose stepping belongs to another era long gone. And dragging armoured vehicles around the city just seem like a waste of fuel.

[AnimeFan188]

Ukraine Resurrects Soviet-Era Super Drones:

"The Ukrainian air force is working overtime to rebuild its aging, vintage arsenal.
That’s led Kiev to bring back some almost ancient robots that date to the communist
era.

This week, Kiev’s Ministry of Defense announced the Ukrainian air force is restoring
68 mothballed military aircraft of various types. They include a Soviet-era Tu-141
drone, according to photographs accompanying the statement.

If the Ukrainians can successfully restore it, the Red Army robot could support Kiev’s
offensive against eastern separatists. The drone could also bolster Ukraine’s recon
abilities in the event the country goes to war with Russia on a wider scale—although
the chances of the latter appear to be receding in the short term."

See:

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/ukr...s-3403f80c51ba

[LeoXiao]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It's just that... Parades are what nations do before they had televisions. It used to be a display of military might, but these days it just seems old fashioned. For example the US now hire Hollywood films to spread military propaganda. Much more effective than parades. It just seems like the days of goose stepping belongs to another era long gone. And dragging armoured vehicles around the city just seem like a waste of fuel.

It's tradition for them, not "old-fashioned," nor is it strictly propaganda, at least not anymore. Losing 10% of your population in a war can do that.

To give an example of how ubiquitous this sentiment is: My Russian teacher is a fashionable woman in her mid-20s, and has expressed her dislike for Putin as well as her belief that the Ukraine situation is an embarrassment. Yet when May 9th came around she went crazy about how important the holiday was for Russians, and halted the normal lesson plan to spend the day teaching us "Victory-related" terms. She knew all the major battles of the war and even different variants of the IS tank, saying that this stuff should be common knowledge.

This, of course, doesn't change the fact that Russians in general are too nationalistic and that Putin is using this trait to win their support through his actions in Ukraine. But I don't think that dismissing their victory day custom is a productive way of judging the problem.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

It's tradition for them, not "old-fashioned," nor is it strictly propaganda, at least not anymore. Losing 10% of your population in a war can do that.

To give an example of how ubiquitous this sentiment is: My Russian teacher is a fashionable woman in her mid-20s, and has expressed her dislike for Putin as well as her belief that the Ukraine situation is an embarrassment. Yet when May 9th came around she went crazy about how important the holiday was for Russians, and halted the normal lesson plan to spend the day teaching us "Victory-related" terms. She knew all the major battles of the war and even different variants of the IS tank, saying that this stuff should be common knowledge.

This, of course, doesn't change the fact that Russians in general are too nationalistic and that Putin is using this trait to win their support through his actions in Ukraine. But I don't think that dismissing their victory day custom is a productive way of judging the problem.

I wouldn't have said anything had milan kyuubi not made the comment that "I am just lucky my country is on good terms with Russia!".
He was clearly being impressed by the parade as a display of military might. I merely point out that it is silly to judge military might by parade displays.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It's just that... Parades are what nations do before they had televisions.

...

It just seems like the days of goose stepping belongs to another era long gone. And dragging armoured vehicles around the city just seem like a waste of fuel.

While I agree about how dragging vehicles is useless, I don't quite agree with you regarding parades involving troops. I think it's nice to see them in full dress uniform while showing their colors on national television.

For example on every July 14, I switch to TV5 and watch how the French do it. It is really nice to see them parading on foot or on horses on the Champs-Élysées; the French even invite some foreign units to the party. The British armed forces also have that in London (although I can't remember which national holiday). When I think of the US, I keep asking myself why they don't make a parade involving a few selected units wearing full dress uniforms in the streets of Washington for the 4th of July. I don't think many people would complain about that.

[Der Langrisser]

Putin, Ukraine leader break crisis ice at D-Day event

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0EG2V020140606

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

While I agree about how dragging vehicles is useless, I don't quite agree with you regarding parades involving troops. I think it's nice to see them in full dress uniform while showing their colors on national television.

For example on every July 14, I switch to TV5 and watch how the French do it. It is really nice to see them parading on foot or on horses on the Champs-Élysées; the French even invite some foreign units to the party. The British armed forces also have that in London (although I can't remember which national holiday). When I think of the US, I keep asking myself why they don't make a parade involving a few selected units wearing full dress uniforms in the streets of Washington for the 4th of July. I don't think many people would complain about that.

Especially since they're a lot more "support the troops" than we are. You'd think that sort of things would be right up their alley.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I keep asking myself why they don't make a parade involving a few selected units wearing full dress uniforms in the streets of Washington for the 4th of July. I don't think many people would complain about that.

All the guys in said uniform who'd be losing their holidays would be complaining

[AnimeFan188]

Shoulder Fired SAM Threat Exploding Over Battlefield Ukraine:

"Man Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS), otherwise known as shoulder
fired heat-seeking surface-to-air missiles, have become prevalent among
pro-Russian forces fighting in Ukraine, and their results have been grimly realized
over the last few weeks of fighting.

A Ukrainian AN-30 twin-turboprop surveillance aircraft was supposedly on a
reconnaissance and intelligence collecting mission high over Slavyansk when it
was engaged by a shoulder-fired SAM. The missile detonated near the aircraft's
right engine, setting it aflame. Luckily the crew had time to bail out of the aircraft
before it struck the ground and blew up."

See:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/sho...-uk-1587497180


==============================================


Back to the future: Pro-Russian separatists take WWII-era tank from memorial
to ‘engage in combat’:

"Pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine are going back to the future — with a World
War II-era tank taken from a memorial.

“Our craftsmen have managed to start the engine of the IS-3 tank displayed on a
platform in the park. The tank is being prepared and will engage in the combat
soon,” the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic, a unrecognized sect of
Ukraine, reportedly told Russian news agency Interfax."

See:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...wwii-era-tank/


==============================================


Russian, NATO Arms Race Takes Shape:

"The crisis in Ukraine is continuing to spur increased military efforts by both Russia
and NATO’s Eastern European member states, with the former recently adding to
its procurement list, and countries such as Poland, the Czech Republic, Lithuania
and Latvia unveiling plans to expand their defense budgets.

In a move designed to bolster regional security, US President Barack Obama
expressed support to Eastern European allies and announced a new initiative to
increase US military presence in the region during his June 3-4 official visit to
Poland."

See:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ce-Takes-Shape

[LeoXiao]

An IS-3? Cool, have fun finding ammo for it.

[Newhope]

Looks like Keiv junta is now using banned weapons against civilians in the east.

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

An IS-3? Cool, have fun finding ammo for it.

Won't be that hard the artillery version of the gun was still in use until fairly recently.

[Der Langrisser]

Ukrainian forces surround rebel-held port city

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0EO0KP20140613

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Recording of Separatists realising they shot down a civilian plane. Translation in the link.

[MCAL]

These Malayasian Airlines can't catch a damn break.

[risingstar3110]

Yeah, isn't the BBC reporting that the seperatists unlikely to have the sophisticated equipments to shoot plane that high? The fact that Euro Air Control didn't black list that region kinda confirmed it. As if the rebels have any capability to, they would have close the air zones surrounding there

It's likely the Russians or Ukrainians now. Both have no reasons to shoot the planes off in the first place.

Maybe bomb strapped terrorists. And was just a coincidence for it to explore over Ukraine?


Selfish to say this, but hope no one i know is on it

[maplehurry]

Meanwhile, a U.S. intelligence source told Fox News that the intelligence community was ruling out the possibility the missile was fired by the Ukraine military but could not rule out that it was fired from Russian territory.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07...-over-ukraine/

In separatists' "defense", at least it's still possible for Russia to be the culprit.