One Piece - Chapter 903 [manga]

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

No it doesn't. It says that Teach was acknowledged as an emperor after the BB pirates emerged victorious in the payback war. It doesn't mention anything about territory, fair enough. But maybe by that point he had already acquired some of WB's former territories? Who knows.

I'm not discrediting any of Luffy's accomplishments. I'm talking about Luffy's power and influence right now in the story. I already said it shouldn't be too long before Luffy legitimately obtains emperor status. He is just simply not on the level of the other emperors as of this moment.

^Confusion
I am lost. In post #57 I mention that black beard was recognized has a yonkou after he defeated Marco. The chapter 820 pages 12-14 back up my argument. Then you acknowledge it in post #60. I am totally confused. On what your are trying to say. I am confused why you keep saying no it doesn't or no, or your wrong.

Finally I am not saying Luffy is has strong has the other emperors but what I am saying Black Beard is a Hypocrite when his situation is similar to Luffy's before he became emperor. Morgan saying what he did would be no different from if Morgan said Black Beard is the new 4th emperor. Why because black beard's situation is similar to Luffy's. The only difference between the two is White Beard died and Big mama is alive. That was what I was trying to say in Post #57. Sorry for all the editing this was confusing.

[marvelB]

Hmm, Coby at VA level? While he certainly did become much stronger over the skip, I still think it's a stretch to say he reached that level just yet. Personally, I'd wager on him currently being closer to commodore level at best (like Smoker before the skip). And as for Helmeppo, I do wonder if he's any closer to finding his dad, Morgan (again, NOT the journalist Morgans (note the "s" at the end of the name), but the corrupt marine, Axe-Hand Morgan). It was noted that capturing his dad was one of his ambitions, and the last time we saw Morgan was in Jango's ministory so many eons ago. Wonder what that guy's up to, now.....?


And about Blackbeard.... maybe it is true to an extent that he's a hypocrite for talking down to Luffy, but at least he still has several years' experience as a former WB pirate himself to back up his words. And another important thing to remember is that Teach has "fate" on his side..... it was fate that led him to meeting Luffy at Jaya, to defeating Ace and becoming a Shichibukai, to meeting Shiryuu at Impel Down (who in turn gave him the antidote to Magellan's poison and helped him bust out the LV6 prisoners), and of course led to him toppling the WB pirates, thus securing his place as an emperor. And to use a more recent example, it was thanks to fate that, despite getting his ass kicked by Sabo at Dressrosa, Burgess managed to discover Dragon's secret base and let the rest of his comrades know, which resulted in them invading the place. So hypocrite or not, I wouldn't say Teach is undeserving of his current position.....

[grey_1960]

^
Koby is so stronger then the majority of the VA. The only reason I feel this way is because of Garp. Look what he did for Sabo, Ace, and Luffy. Second there is something about the older timers and the youngsters that grew up in the Gold D. Roger era. There training seems to make future leaders. Ex. Mi Hawk training Zoro, Rayliegh training Luffy, Garp training Koby, Luffy, Ace, Sabo, and Dragon. So far they have been consistent and Garp has raised some of the worst kids but powerful ones. If the pattern fits Koby is going to be strong.

[marvelB]

BTW, I forgot to mention it in the midst of all the excitement, but THERE IS NO CHAPTER THIS WEEK! That's because the current chapter was released on a holiday issue, so the magazine itself will be on break! We should be back in business a week from today, though!

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

^Confusion
I am lost. In post #57 I mention that black beard was recognized has a yonkou after he defeated Marco. The chapter 820 pages 12-14 back up my argument. Then you acknowledge it in post #60. I am totally confused. On what your are trying to say. I am confused why you keep saying no it doesn't or no, or your wrong.

Finally I am not saying Luffy is has strong has the other emperors but what I am saying Black Beard is a Hypocrite when his situation is similar to Luffy's before he became emperor. Morgan saying what he did would be no different from if Morgan said Black Beard is the new 4th emperor. Why because black beard's situation is similar to Luffy's. The only difference between the two is White Beard died and Big mama is alive. That was what I was trying to say in Post #57. Sorry for all the editing this was confusing.

Chapter 650 page 7 says that BB conquered all of WB's territories after WB's death. And he did it without using the quake fruit. In the aftermath of the war (just before the timeskip), the gorosei also hyped him up to the point where they said only the yonkou and maybe Marco can stop his advances. So not only did Teach have the combat prowess to become an emperor, but he also had the territory to boot. And this is what my argument was about from the start. Luffy is currently lacking in combat prowess and territory. As far as we know, he doesn't even rule over any territory in the New World. Yes, there are many parallels between Teach and Luffy as you pointed out, but it is these two things over here that make BB claim emperor status legitimately. Therefore, I don't see anything hypocritical about how he said it's too soon for Luffy.

[Tuor]

Isn't Fishman Island under Luffy's protection? Of course, that's just one island, but it means that her not *totally* without lands that look to him for protection. One could also argue that the lands that belong to members of his fleet are also under his protection, if indirectly.

[marvelB]

Come to think of it, I wonder if Goa counts as being under the protection of Shanks? I mean, he frequently visited there during Luffy's childhood, and we at least saw his crew protect the village from bandits, though this was probably at a time before he was officially recognized as an emperor. But at the very least, it's been implied he returned there at some point during the skip to conceive a child with the bar owner Makino, so I think that alone could lend some credence to the theory....

[Randrak42]

I don't know about Goa, seeing as it seemed to have a lot of love for nobility and the Tenryuubito, but I'm pretty sure that Foosha Village at least must be under Shanks' protection. At the very least, it is under Garp's and hell... being known as Luffy's birthplace, people should instinctively know not to mess with it.

[marvelB]

^Yeah, I know Fusha is under Garp's jurisdiction, but I was focusing more on the yonkou's area of influence. Of course, it's natural to consider Goa as Luffy's turf now thanks to his recent boost in reputation and all, but prior to that? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it was originally considered Shanks' turf, since his crew frequently hung out there (and again, the thing with Makino's baby). In a way, I suppose Goa might be considered Dragon's turf as well, but I sorta get the impression that he might despise the place due to the nobility and their disdain towards the "plebs"....

On a different note (but somewhat related to the Reverie), I have the feeling that Goa is one of the 20 nations that formed the WG. We know the original rulers of those countries left incumbent monarchs in charge after moving to Mariejois (with the exception of Vivi's Nefertari family), but we otherwise don't really know anything about the other 18 founding nations. Curiously, we saw a world noble visiting the Goa kingdom during Luffy's flashback, so that makes me wonder: Perhaps that noble is a descendant of Goa's original ruling family? Maybe it's the case that the world nobles periodically visit their ancestral homes in order to make sure the status quo is upheld? And if so, did the Donquixote family handle a similar business with Dressrosa prior to being exiled from Mariejois? Man, I hope the Reverie touches upon stuff like this....

[necrolyte]

^I think you are to fixated on this turf stuff. I don't think that every island in OP world has emporor protector and IIRC East blue was the most peacefull of all the lands so probably doesn't even need a protector IMO

[Tuor]

Yeah, I was under the impression that the whole Emperor/Protection thing was solely for the New World, not for the rest of the Grand Line and certainly not for the four Blues.

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Chapter 650 page 7 says that BB conquered all of WB's territories after WB's death. And he did it without using the quake fruit. In the aftermath of the war (just before the timeskip), the gorosei also hyped him up to the point where they said only the yonkou and maybe Marco can stop his advances. So not only did Teach have the combat prowess to become an emperor, but he also had the territory to boot. And this is what my argument was about from the start. Luffy is currently lacking in combat prowess and territory. As far as we know, he doesn't even rule over any territory in the New World. Yes, there are many parallels between Teach and Luffy as you pointed out, but it is these two things over here that make BB claim emperor status legitimately. Therefore, I don't see anything hypocritical about how he said it's too soon for Luffy.

The thing that caught my attention is BB is indeed having territory but does he have reliable allies outside his crew? In Luffy's side, his allies now is going to Reverie. You can guess who such as Dalton, Kureha, Shirahoshi, Neptune, Vivi, Cobra, Tontatta Corps, and those who are involved in Luffy's Campaign that are attending Reverie.

WB have multiple allies and they are willing to assist WB during War on Marineford but so far BB does not have allies that was willing to aid him if he's in trouble. Luffy in the other hand gains multiple allies and i believe he will be one of the hottest topics discussed at Reverie aside of current world situation.

BB become Yonko because of his powers while Buggy becomes Shichibukai since he has powerful allies with him.

I was thinking that BB can lose more territory faster than WB since WB's previous territory was gained through trust, not fear.

Luffy can become a Yonko if he gathered powerful allies to be by his side. He just need allies, not territory since he's not interested in it. Gol D. Roger doesn't even have territory when becoming Pirate King. He only use his strongest weapon that was known as a trust to pave his way to become such.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by necrolyte

^I think you are to fixated on this turf stuff. I don't think that every island in OP world has emporor protector and IIRC East blue was the most peacefull of all the lands so probably doesn't even need a protector IMO

Oh no, I'm not suggesting that all islands in the world are protected by an emperor. I was more pointing out locations that might be considered significant to emperors (or those with similar status) for some reason or another. Rather personal reasons, to be more specific. And to be fair, while East Blue is considered the most peaceful ocean, it's not like it doesn't produce the occasional monster (Roger, Dragon, Luffy, Zoro, etc.).....

[noktown]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Chapter 650 page 7 says that BB conquered all of WB's territories after WB's death

I don't think it was that difficult to conquer WB's territories after his death. When Marco took charge I believe WB pirates lost most of their allies, so there was no one to protect the territories, aside from the remaining crew and remaining allies.

Look how easy it was for Luffy to "conquer" Big Mom's territory Fishman Island and Big Mom was still alive.

That aside, I believe with Luffy, Oda wants to show us the typical "media" reaction to such an event, where everything was exaggerated just to make a good article. I don't think any of the big Emperors will actually recognize him as such, if anything it will make them furious, and it's been mostly shown that way.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by noktown

I don't think it was that difficult to conquer WB's territories after his death. When Marco took charge I believe WB pirates lost most of their allies, so there was no one to protect the territories, aside from the remaining crew and remaining allies.

I dunno, WB's allies seemed to be quite loyal to him (even that Squardo guy or whatever he was called who stabbed him), so I doubt they abandoned the crew once Marco took over. But that being said, one thing to take into consideration is that several of WB's allies were hunted down and destroyed by Edward Weevil (who's more or less being controlled by his mother), so maybe that could have partly contributed to Teach's rise to power.... yet another case of "fate" being on his side, one could say.

[noktown]

Originally Posted by marvelB

I dunno, WB's allies seemed to be quite loyal to him (even that Squardo guy or whatever he was called who stabbed him), so I doubt they abandoned the crew once Marco took over. But that being said, one thing to take into consideration is that several of WB's allies were hunted down and destroyed by Edward Weevil (who's more or less being controlled by his mother), so maybe that could have partly contributed to Teach's rise to power.... yet another case of "fate" being on his side, one could say.

That's a very good point! I totally forgot about the guy, he defeated 16 pirate crews affiliated with WB and the hunt is till on. It seems BB is as lucky as Luffy(or the opposite).