The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll [2006 TV ep. 13]

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

My response to Kaioshin_Sama would be...

Spoiler:

There's other beings that can generate enclosed space and their respective spaces are 'unique'. Be it snow Mountain or Yuki's barren wasteland. Haruhi is one of such beings that can... (call it reality marble perhaps?) give form to pure 'information' or thought. I am not about to make any guess as to how one gets out of Haruhi's enclosed space just from the enclosed space examples seen thus far.

Haruhi creating her own world is the exact words Itsuki used to describe the nature of that enclosed space when he talks to Kyon during the snow white (and that previous enclosures are just mere exercises). The words used by Nagato is the end of the information eruption and Asahina ... ceased her existence. Kyon's interpretation is more akin to how you see the enclosed space, especially by snow white event.

Koizumi's explainatin is rather popular since he attempts to rationalize his arguments. Asahina refuse to offer that kind of analysis while Nagato's are too abstract to strike a chord effectively. As such, Haruhi as a deity becomes the clearest of all notions in an attempt to reason with it all. I suppose that's part of the reason why Haruhi == God has been shouted all over.

The what is easier to answer.... the why and how are not. Novel makes it clear through kyon's interactions with the sos members that snow white occured and was resolved. You very well can say that snow white's the doing of Haruhi's inner demons just as one can say that it's Kyon showing Haruhi the "blue bird of happiness". Was it from shock and inability to make a decision due to insufficient information that terminated the enclosed space? I am not prepared to make sense of that and slam a conclusion.

Wow I like you and your logical thinking and rationalizion. I think you put things in perspective better than I could have since you've read the novels in Japanese or Chinese and I can't read those languages. I wish there were more like you.

[steelbound]

I found this hard to rate since this episode lacked what I loved about the previous episode but in it's place we we're given the explanation of why Haruhi is Haruhi and the proof of closed space/Itsuki's power, so in the end I gave it a 9.

[clearacell]

I gave it an 8. I knew this wasn't going to be the most interesting episode of the season so I was prepared for that :P. Next episode is going to be great though, it's gonna be a nice ending...and hopefully a hint of there being a 2nd season in the "outro" portion.

[Darklightz]

Now this episode wasn't as fun as usual but we finally got a bit of insight on what the heck is going on.

So 3 years ago a bunch of people realize they're espers with strange powers when in closed spaces.Also 3 years ago the Data Entity sends Asakura and Yuki to the human world to watch Haruhi.And of course 3 years ago was when Haruhi reliazed she wasn't as special as she had though. (she sais it happened at the end of her sixth grade,while middle school lasts 3 years and the series begins during the first year of high school)

Now I"m wondering,did she gain the ability to shape the world,or did she always have that power,except it never manifested itself until the 6th grade because she was happy until then?

Also it's very interesting how Koizumi sort of blamed Kyon for every unnatural events that happened so far.

[Seyluun]

Gave it a 7, this episode may have been a necessary evil but I still felt somewhat cheated of my weekly Haruhi fix.

[Seyluun]

Dp. Oranges are good for you.

[CrowKenobi]

I'm going to give it a 9.
Like others said, plenty of info given to get us up to speed as to what really is going on, but with no "wow" thing to bump up the rating (IMHO).
I agree that the fight with the Shinjin<Celestial> was too short and could have been made longer... though it was exactly like novel one's chapter six described.

[Kamui4356]

I have to give this episode a 9. It was very well done, and while it left out a few things was very faithful to the novel. KyoAni did another great job. I'm now looking foward to the last episode even more than I had been. If KyoAni does this good a job with that, I know I won't be disappointed.

Originally Posted by C.A.

Importantly they fail to show how silent the space is. Kyon mentioned that the silence made their voice sound very clear and its very uncomfortable. The inclusion of a bgm in the closed space before the shinjin appears wasn't a good choice. But I must say that the actions of the shinjin was extremely well done and its bgm was great.

That's it! I knew there was something off about that, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it until I read your post. If they had left out the bgm, and made the footsteps and voices more pronounced, it would have been better, and possibly would have gotten a ten from me.

Originally Posted by C.A.

Japanese version: There's not a single car moving.
Chinese version: There's not a single car moving on the road.
Bakatsuki English version: There's not a single vehicle on the road.

Translation errors maybe?

None of those are necessarily errors. The chinese version added the phrase on the road, which isn't wrong. However, it was probably unnecessary. When translated to english from that, moving was left out as unnecessary to the english sentence. That translation would also be correct, though the implication does change from there are cars, but none are moving without specifing if they're parked on the side or on the road, to there is no traffic, but there may or may not be parked cars.

What it shows is be wary of translations. Even if the translation is accurate, there may be some lost or altered meaning.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

I wasn't terribly wowed by that chapter, actually its one of my least favorites.

Spoiler:

There is no real bang in that one other than the smashy smashy of the giants, and some romantic action with Kyon putting the moves on Haruhi and her being too shocked to move because of it. Then suddenly pop, they are back in the real world with no idea as to whether it actually really happened or if it was a dream other than cryptic dialogue from Ituski and Yuki suggesting it happened but not telling them why, how or what happened. It almost reminds me of that weird Acperience episode of Eureka 7 where Renton and Eureka are trapped in the Correlian and have no way of getting out, Eureka is all depressed and Renton convinces her to come back with him, they embrace (Sort of) and then they are back in the real world having no real idea WTF happened and why or how they got out. I almost think that what closed space is, is a representation of how Haruhi sees the world when she is depressed a cold dark place that she hates because she doesn't fit in, Hence the destruction of the giants is her rage being taken out on the world in her own mind where nobody will get hurt and that Kyon somehow dived into the recesses of her mind that night kind of like in Psychonauts or in that one stage of La Pucelle and had to pull her out of her depression for both of them to escape. I still think Haruhi wants to retreat and withdraw into her own mind where she can be in a world she wants to be in and that she pulled Kyon in that night to stay with her but he ended up rescuing her from her own nightmare instead by letting her know that he and the others care about her and want her to be happy and not to hate the world, and that they won't judge or reject her.

As per the suggestion that Haruhi was creating her own world, I'm not of the I'll believe when I see it happen camp but of the I'll believe it when I see it and know it to be true camp, I still feel closed space is most likely somewhere deep in the recesses of her mind, the sad lonely and angry part that was her dominant personality in the first half of episode 2 and that Kyon is slowly helping to get rid of. The gifting of Itsuki with his esper powers might of been Haruhi's cry for help to get rid of the closed space within her mind and help her break free of her depression and anger.

I liked this chapter because of personal reasons and it set me thinking. PM me if you want personal reasons, here are some of the thoughts I had when I read the chapter:

Spoiler:

Why do humans exist? Why do we have/want to live our lives and die? Does the Anthropic Principle make any sense?

If we humans exist because the Universe allows us to exist, then why are these events going to happen?:

Spoiler for events:

In 5 billion years: Sun becomes a red giant and engulfs the entire inner solar system. If we humans still live around the solar system, we would be fried.
Even if we manage to colonise the outer solar system, the supernova coming afterwards would destroy the entire solar system.

Approximately 10 - 15 billion years from now, our nearest neighbouring galaxy, Andromeda will collide into our Milky Way. The central super blackholes will merge, who knows what would happen when the 2 galaxies merge into one. If humans can survive for so long, we probably have to prepare to leave the Milky Way when we can see the Andromeda galaxy without telescopes.

Within 25 billion years, our local galaxy super cluster will be totally destroyed by a single super blackhole that has grown so large over the years, it pulls entire galaxies on contact with its event horizon. When finally every single galaxy in the galaxy cluster and everything within range has been absorbed by the blackhole, something unimaginable will happen: Scientists predict that this black hole unable to feed and sustain itself with further collapse on its own. All the matter in the blackhole will compress into the centre, heat and energy builds up as the blackhole becomes increasingly denser. Until when it finally is unable to hold the immense pressure, it will explode like a small version of the Big Bang, probably destroying a part of the universe, reforming it.

And who knows whether there would be a Big Crunch or Big Freeze at the end.

This is what I learnt from Discovery Channel.

I mention these on several forums I visited before and the response I always get is that humans probably won't see these events or we don't have to worry because humans would destroy each other in the near future.

This begs the question even more, why do we exist at all? Since we are so short lived and our existance doesn't matter to the universe. Do we exist so that we can learn that our race will eventually die one day? If thats the case why do we make our lives even more pointless by spending our everyday lives doing the same thing everyday: wake up, brush, eat, school/work, eat, brush, sleep, repeat. Even if we get to live very special lives, we would still die one day and leave everything behind. Why not just kill ourselves now?

@Kamui4356: lol I'm glad to know that someone visualised the closed space similar to how I did

[celcius]

Kyon mentioned all the events Haruhi deemed as actions that lost their color in the episode preview. One final clue for ep.14 ending.

[Anime Online]

A very enjoyable episode, it filled out alot of gaps and put some of the puzzle pieces together.

[Argent]

Originally Posted by Darklightz

So 3 years ago a bunch of people realize they're espers with strange powers when in closed spaces.Also 3 years ago the Data Entity sends Asakura and Yuki to the human world to watch Haruhi.And of course 3 years ago was when Haruhi reliazed she wasn't as special as she had though. (she sais it happened at the end of her sixth grade,while middle school lasts 3 years and the series begins during the first year of high school)

I used to think this but I was corrected by those who have read all the stories. Something else happens 3 years ago to trigger her. Something we won't see animated until they do a second season.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by C.A.

I liked this chapter because of personal reasons and it set me thinking. PM me if you want personal reasons, here are some of the thoughts I had when I read the chapter:

Spoiler:

Why do humans exist? Why do we have/want to live our lives and die? Does the Anthropic Principle make any sense?

If we humans exist because the Universe allows us to exist, then why are these events going to happen?:

Spoiler for events:

In 5 billion years: Sun becomes a red giant and engulfs the entire inner solar system. If we humans still live around the solar system, we would be fried.
Even if we manage to colonise the outer solar system, the supernova coming afterwards would destroy the entire solar system.

Approximately 10 - 15 billion years from now, our nearest neighbouring galaxy, Andromeda will collide into our Milky Way. The central super blackholes will merge, who knows what would happen when the 2 galaxies merge into one. If humans can survive for so long, we probably have to prepare to leave the Milky Way when we can see the Andromeda galaxy without telescopes.

Within 25 billion years, our local galaxy super cluster will be totally destroyed by a single super blackhole that has grown so large over the years, it pulls entire galaxies on contact with its event horizon. When finally every single galaxy in the galaxy cluster and everything within range has been absorbed by the blackhole, something unimaginable will happen: Scientists predict that this black hole unable to feed and sustain itself with further collapse on its own. All the matter in the blackhole will compress into the centre, heat and energy builds up as the blackhole becomes increasingly denser. Until when it finally is unable to hold the immense pressure, it will explode like a small version of the Big Bang, probably destroying a part of the universe, reforming it.

And who knows whether there would be a Big Crunch or Big Freeze at the end.

This is what I learnt from Discovery Channel.

I mention these on several forums I visited before and the response I always get is that humans probably won't see these events or we don't have to worry because humans would destroy each other in the near future.

This begs the question even more, why do we exist at all? Since we are so short lived and our existance doesn't matter to the universe. Do we exist so that we can learn that our race will eventually die one day? If thats the case why do we make our lives even more pointless by spending our everyday lives doing the same thing everyday: wake up, brush, eat, school/work, eat, brush, sleep, repeat. Even if we get to live very special lives, we would still die one day and leave everything behind. Why not just kill ourselves now?

@Kamui4356: lol I'm glad to know that someone visualised the closed space similar to how I did

Nice to see someone else noticing the "Long View"....

Spoiler:

In some sense we're remarkable things.... bits of matter that evolved self-awareness. To me that makes the bonds we form all that much more important because thats all we really have in the transience of the moment. Any enduring aspect is pure speculation. 10,000 years from now.... a blink of cosmic time and virtually *everything* we take for granted will be long gone, no one will know our names, or perhaps even that there was a civilization.
Enjoy the moment and grieve for people wrapped up in the small things as if they were big.

[Trax]

I suppose this episode was informative, unfortunately it was also kinda boring overall because of the longwinded explanations. 7/10

[panzerfan]

Spoiler:

This begs the question even more, why do we exist at all? Since we are so short lived and our existance doesn't matter to the universe. Do we exist so that we can learn that our race will eventually die one day? If thats the case why do we make our lives even more pointless by spending our everyday lives doing the same thing everyday: wake up, brush, eat, school/work, eat, brush, sleep, repeat. Even if we get to live very special lives, we would still die one day and leave everything behind. Why not just kill ourselves now?

C.A's comment makes me think of this...

Spoiler:

I was hit really hard when I found out that even matter, condensed form of energy actually has an incredable amount of 'space' within the atoms that it is made out of. Everything is nothing simutanuously. Is human being by that definition an expression in condensed form of energy or are we more than that? (a cricket and a piece of pebble are all just that... condensed form of energy.

Human does have the convenience of peering into space as the ultimate time machine into the past... but we're so caught up in the present to stare at the stars of the past nowadays, thus negating that advantage. Perhaps this narrow focus on the immediate present is the way that keeps human from thinking of how pointless this short existence is... or maybe by blurring the dream of the stars we're going to doom ourselves with historical blunders coming back to bite us in a big way.

I can't remember who said this or the exact lines but someone once remarked that the existence of self becomes all the more important due to the relative minuteness of humanity to everything else. Being educated from a Cartesian school of thought it's convenient to view self as the absolute pivot and everything relative to it. I enjoy of point of reference even if I know how small a point this is.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Nice to see someone else noticing the "Long View"....

Spoiler:

In some sense we're remarkable things.... bits of matter that evolved self-awareness. To me that makes the bonds we form all that much more important because thats all we really have in the transience of the moment. Any enduring aspect is pure speculation. 10,000 years from now.... a blink of cosmic time and virtually *everything* we take for granted will be long gone, no one will know our names, or perhaps even that there was a civilization.
Enjoy the moment and grieve for people wrapped up in the small things as if they were big.

Actually, this episode makes me think the odds of a second season are higher -- its like the introductory setup for the situation our heroes are in.

[C.A.]

@Vexx and panzerfan: After reading both posts, I had some random thoughts lol

Spoiler for , no idea why we are using spoiler tags lol:

Random thoughts from Vexx's post:

Yes, its very sad that we humans have so much chance, but we are short lived. We could develop all sorts of technology if we are given the time, we would probably be able to escape the Big Crunch/Freeze by sliding through dimensions in the future. We could escape all sorts of cosmic destruction if we had the technology.

But will people continue living happily, 20 billion years in the future? What reason do humans have to continue living? Do humans keep on living just so that the race will carry on? Is there a point to that? Well one thing I can think of is that we can probably spread life all over the universe, but in the end there's still no point in doing that. There's no ultimate point in life.

Random thoughts from panzerfan's:

I love this part of the lyrics from 'Bouken Desho Desho?':

Ashita kako ni natta kyou no ima ga kiseki. : The moment tomorrow when today turns from present to past is a miracle.

Tsukamou mirai wo: Let's take hold of the future.

This song has beautiful lyrics, very meaningful as well.

Also not sure why but I feel like talking about time travelling, into the future. Time travelling into the future is much easier than going into the past. All we have to do is move, when we move we are already going into the future, how far we are going into the future can be calculated. Following Einstein's theory of relativity, the closer we get to the speed of light, the slower time is relative to us.

e.g.: So if we travel for 6 months in a space ship at 99% the speed of light and return to Earth, 50 years or so would have been passed. There, we travelled into the future.

Also from Discovery Channel, the human who's been furthest into the future is a russian cosmonaut who spent 748 days on the space station. Spending so much time at the orbiting speed of mach 24, he is on average 1/50th of a second more into the future compared everyone else on Earth lol

[Lost]

Spoiler for Off topic:

On your thoughts, C.A., here are mine: I think its really pointless to ask this questions. Whether our race will go extinct or not; no matter how it will; the point is that we exist now and thats that. Don't you think it is better to exist, and be at least remotely able to do something about those extinction-issues; rather than not exist in the first place? Who's to say we were not created or chanced on for the better of good? And that question "Why not just kill ourselves now" really pisses me off. If you are questioning that much, be my guest. Just don't speak for the rest of humanity. For me, I'd subscribe to what Vexx said. We may not be important to the universe; but you are important as an indivdual, to yourself and the people who love you, as am I. (shameless attempt to make this on topic): Haruhi may not be important to the rest of the world (i.e. the universe), but she certainly is important to Kyon. And thats a good enough reason to exist, imo.

But please don't take this personally. Nice views. I wanted to post something about religion and such, but I'd better not.

Argh the sub is out and I'm at school!?!

Spoiler for I guess that spoiler button is just so irresistable:

@C.A.: Neither do I; I guess that spoiler button is just so irresistable.

Originally Posted by C.A.

Also from Discovery Channel, the human who's been furthest into the future is a russian cosmonaut who spent 748 days on the space station. Spending so much time at the orbiting speed of mach 24, he is on average 1/50th of a second more into the future compared everyone else on Earth lol

Hee hee cool cool

[Vexx]

Basically, you're reaching the "42" conclusion
What point there is to be had is in appreciating that at this instant, there is a *you* ... a unique bump in the matter-energy matrix that can observe the field around it and appreciate it. Find other bumps that "get it", have fun, and try not to make a mess for the bumps that will come later.

[Orchunter226]

Well, a good episode, but not as good as the others. I kinda wanted to slap Kyon, does he not see that Haruhi is having feelings for him. Can he not find any words or actions to comfort her?

It seems this episodes philisophic nature envoked quite a bit of theorizing amongst the fans. A lot of speculations on why we exist it seems. Kinda funny....