[Manga] Chapter 447 Discussion

[Hunter]

Welcome to the weekly manga chapter discussion thread. This thread is created early to discuss spoilers and speculation about the upcoming chapter.

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[davie]

I wonder if this chapter will show more flashbacks and explain a bit more of Pain's actions. Can't wait

[james0246]

Spoiler for Apparently confirmed spoiler...:

Source : NF
translation : Nightjumper

Hanzou gives to order to kill Nagato. Hidden Rain shinobi appear.
Nagato repels their kunai with Shinra ??[Tensei?], surprising the ninja.
He takes the opportunity to save Konan, but his legs are hit by Hanzou's Katon technique[s].
Both his legs are crumbling...
(That's kinda why he's in a wheelchair now)
[Unsure]Hanzou is surprised when Nagato is standing with his Rinnegan, even after being hit by his Katon tech[s].
While Nagato collapses,
Summoning: Gedou Ma Zou[Lit.: Heretical Demon Statue]
(It's just like the statue that extracts and keeps the Bijuu)
Konan shouts: "Don't use that technique!"
Several black rods comes out of the statue and pierces Nagato's back.
Thence, in Musou[Lit: peerless; unparalleled; unparallelled; matchless] Mode, something like white dragons emerge from the statue's mouth.
They hit the Konoha Anbu and the Hidden Rain shinobi, their souls being extracted one by one.
The filler ninja are wiped out.(Danzou probably fleed after seeing the statue)
Hanzou escapes through Shunshin no Jutsu.

The end of the story, back to present time.

And afterwards, he says something like his comrades had died one by one.

He demands Naruto's answer.
Naruto remembers what Ero-sennin said.
(The stuff about everyone understanding each other~)
[Naruto:] Ero-sennin believed in me and entrusted it to me.
That's why I'll believe in what Ero-sennin believed in.
That's my answer!!
And that's why I won't kill you!

The end

Cover/spine is of Sasuke.

More info:

Sorry, I forgot to write this:
Nagato transforms from his healthy self to his crippled self when the blacks rods hits him.
[I think nja is saying that he's taking pictures of the spin-off about the Gutsy Ninja]

[Takashipl]

If it's true, then we'll have to wait one more week to see more action. Actually, spoiler seems belivable. When will Nails speak?

[Kafriel]

Sounds delicious, he crippled himself to save his friends and took the enemy's soul! I guess a hero lies in the heart of every villain (except orochimaru....), and now that we're going back to present time, my crystal ball speaks of a surprise attack that kills Nagato, the perpetrator being none other than Danzou in the flesh. Anyone else think it's possible?

[Gamma_Sennin]

Originally Posted by james0246

Spoiler for Apparently confirmed spoiler...:

Source : NF
translation : Nightjumper

Hanzou gives to order to kill Nagato. Hidden Rain shinobi appear.
Nagato repels their kunai with Shinra ??[Tensei?], surprising the ninja.
He takes the opportunity to save Konan, but his legs are hit by Hanzou's Katon technique[s].
Both his legs are crumbling...
(That's kinda why he's in a wheelchair now)
[Unsure]Hanzou is surprised when Nagato is standing with his Rinnegan, even after being hit by his Katon tech[s].
While Nagato collapses,
Summoning: Gedou Ma Zou[Lit.: Heretical Demon Statue]
(It's just like the statue that extracts and keeps the Bijuu)
Konan shouts: "Don't use that technique!"
Several black rods comes out of the statue and pierces Nagato's back.
Thence, in Musou[Lit: peerless; unparalleled; unparallelled; matchless] Mode, something like white dragons emerge from the statue's mouth.
They hit the Konoha Anbu and the Hidden Rain shinobi, their souls being extracted one by one.
The filler ninja are wiped out.(Danzou probably fleed after seeing the statue)
Hanzou escapes through Shunshin no Jutsu.

The end of the story, back to present time.

And afterwards, he says something like his comrades had died one by one.

He demands Naruto's answer.
Naruto remembers what Ero-sennin said.
(The stuff about everyone understanding each other~)
[Naruto:] Ero-sennin believed in me and entrusted it to me.
That's why I'll believe in what Ero-sennin believed in.
That's my answer!!
And that's why I won't kill you!

The end

Cover/spine is of Sasuke.

More info:

Sorry, I forgot to write this:
Nagato transforms from his healthy self to his crippled self when the blacks rods hits him.
[I think nja is saying that he's taking pictures of the spin-off about the Gutsy Ninja]

Does that mean he believes in himself? lol Im guessing that the full chapter will shed more light as This summary doesn't really reveal an answer..

Also he can use shinra tensei, with his original body, sorta confirms that it is a rinnegan ability, which backs up his statement about Rikudou using CT... and he summons the sealing statue:S... and it starts taking the souls of ninja... this might add to I think it was Killerbee (from the forums, not the manga) who predicted that the Bijuu which were extracted was a part of the reason pain had so much chakra... who knows but didn't Madara also summon that statue aswell... sorta confused... especially if its supposed to be a Rinnegan ability lol

[Kafriel]

Perhaps the statue is actually another one of them contract entities, and after becoming Pain he allowed Madara to sign the contract as well...now, as to where he might have found it, I am clueless indeed.

[james0246]

^The spoilers names the Statue as Gedou Ma Zou; the Sealing Statue for the Bijuu is named Genryuu Kyuu Fuujin (edit: that is, if the translation/spoiler is correct ). So, they are different statues that seemingly look similar. In regards to the conversation with Killer Bee, my stance was that Pain either used the chakra taken from the absorbed ninjutsu, or was able to convert the energy from captured souls back into chakra. So, this new statue could be just the clue I was looking for (considering that it seems to be absorbing people's souls) .

That being said, new information was revealed that shows that Naruto ends the chapter by taking out Jiraiya's book "The Gutsy Ninja". So, Naruto will undoubtedly fully answer Nagato next chapter.

[lotus_lee]

Danzou is such a wimp. He deserves what's coming for him. We know that Nagato gets his revenge on Hanzou at some point, but I wonder now if he does it all by himself, or uses new bodies as he got himself crippled.

Only thing I'm disappointed in this chapter is how he got crippled by Hanzou's Katon, as I thought he would be able to dodge it.

[Gamma_Sennin]

Originally Posted by james0246

^The spoilers names the Statue as Gedou Ma Zou; the Sealing Statue for the Bijuu is named Genryuu Kyuu Fuujin. So, they are different statues that seemingly look similar. In regards to the conversation with Killer Bee, my stance was that Pain either used the chakra taken from the absorbed ninjutsu, or was able to convert the energy from captured souls back into chakra. So, this new statue could be just the clue I was looking for (considering that it seems to be absorbing people's souls) .

That being said, new information was revealed that shows that Naruto ends the chapter by taking out Jiraiya's book "The Gutsy Ninja". So, Naruto will undoubtedly fully answer Nagato next chapter.

O okies thanks for clearing that up... also that book must be something, it survived a nine tailed transformation, but then it was inside the invincible jumpsuit... Also It seem's we might get a really detailed explanation from naruto in the next chapter, maybe one of his famous speech's... looking forward to this chapter even more now... Friday seems so far away

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by lotus_lee

Only thing I'm disappointed in this chapter is how he got crippled by Hanzou's Katon, as I thought he would be able to dodge it.

You shouldn't be disappointed since he was crippled because he had to save Konan no matter what happens to him. Also add to that he was fighting the man who did beat all 3 sannins at the same time. So, as expected, Hanzou was used as a measuring stick for Nagato's power, he would have killed Hanzou if Konan were not held hostage.

It's interesting that Konan already knew what will Nagato do to himself, this is odd since this happened the first time i guess. Which means that she knows the secret powers and jutsu of the rinnegan.

It's odd that Nagato cannot restore part of his body, but he can restore any of the Pain bodies.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

You shouldn't be disappointed since he was crippled because he had to save Konan no matter what happens to him. Also add to that he was fighting the man who did beat all 3 sannins at the same time. So, as expected, Hanzou was used as a measuring stick for Nagato's power, he would have killed Hanzou if Konan were not held hostage.

It's interesting that Konan already knew what will Nagato do to himself, this is odd since this happened the first time i guess. Which means that she knows the secret powers and jutsu of the rinnegan.

It's odd that Nagato cannot restore part of his body, but he can restore any of the Pain bodies.

Exactly! That's what disturbed me the most. Nagato's source of chakra is probably not the souls or the bijuu. I cannot imagine that. Because one of Pains bodies keeps absorbing chakra and thus he also regains chakra at the same time.

Besides even Sasori was using puppets like Nagato does with the dead bodies.
Even though it's a bit different it's not that very strange. Even Kisame has a gigantic amount of chakra. And if the Rikkoudou Sennin really created the moon... then i really will believe that the 9 Bijuu are his own creations aswell.

[Takashipl]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It's odd that Nagato cannot restore part of his body, but he can restore any of the Pain bodies.

This is probably because his "bodies" are dead and repairing them is simplier, maybe his original body can't be eaten by Hell's realm summon (whatever that thing is)

Edit: As for the moon - in Dragonball moon was destroyed, here it is created - balance restored

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It's odd that Nagato cannot restore part of his body, but he can restore any of the Pain bodies.

Well, considering that the bodies are dead, I seriously doubt that they are actually healed. Rather, I imagine it is like a taxidermist stitching together a bear skin (or some other dead animal): it may look complete, and sometimes even whole, but the same procedures used to stitch the bear skin are by no means servicable for living tissue.

[Sakuranbo]

*Excited squeal* The bit about the summoning Gedou Ma Zou sound dreamy I hope it's true

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by james0246

Well, considering that the bodies are dead, I seriously doubt that they are actually healed. Rather, I imagine it is like a taxidermist stitching together a bear skin (or some other dead animal): it may look complete, and sometimes even whole, but the same procedures used to stitch the bear skin are by no means servicable for living tissue.

I guess you are right and the same goes for Sasori. He could easily manipulate his puppets, exchanging single parts, for example extremities and of course the weapon and defense utilities and I think he also had to feed the bodies with souls, like for example Orochimaru lost his arms because his soul had been sucked out partially and maybe Pain's bodies have to be applied with new souls to be able to restore movement and lost body parts. It's just a guess.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by james0246

Well, considering that the bodies are dead, I seriously doubt that they are actually healed. Rather, I imagine it is like a taxidermist stitching together a bear skin (or some other dead animal): it may look complete, and sometimes even whole, but the same procedures used to stitch the bear skin are by no means servicable for living tissue.

Well if you analyze it based on real world criteria then they shouldn't even be able to move since they are just dead bodies

Actually i think the answer is simple: Kishi designed Nagato this way, to be crippled, so he uses reverse logic as always, he invents this character and then invents some story that explains why is this character in that state. The explanation is sometimes beliveable but some times it's not. I think Kishi will probably add a more important reason: Nagato wants to sacrifice himself, he wants to feel constant pain in his body because he believes that pain will give him the willpower to carry out his plan at all costs. That way we can say that Nagato could have surely repired his burned legs. He could maybe even revert his body being pierced by black rods. But he choses not to, because feeling such a constant pain (being pierced by the black rods) is important for him.

[Sazelyt]

So, we get to learn how Nagato became crippled with all the rods penetrating his body. So, maybe he decided to use other bodies not because to show his capabilities (kind of like Orochimaru), but instead more to fight on rather equal grounds with the enemies. Considering that using other bodies limits the types of jutsus he can use, that is understandable. You can argue that using 6 bodies at the same time put him at an advantageous situation, but who can say him with a single working body of himself wouldn't have performed better. Unfortunately we will never learn that part.

Anyways, it seems we will see a bit more Hanzou (and a bit more on the pathetic Danzou), though I guess the memories of Nagato getting rid of all Hanzou related pieces will be left out from this recollections. I still wonder why Nagato didn't go after Danzou, since I don't think he mentions anything regarding him in this chapter too.

Also, the origin of that summon is still unknown. Kishi has already done that with the death god jutsu, I would have preferred for him to at least explain something about this summon, and how Nagato created/learned that. Considering that Konan is aware of the technique and its side effects, how Nagato continued to stay in a single working piece becomes a concern, especially if he had used that technique before.

[kakakka]

The thought of showing how Nagato got to that state he is in right now in just one scene seems to be too rushed/fast for me. I was more expecting of some slow development to that state, but yeah... (tbh, When I was reading the spoilers, I was imagining Nagato doing the reverse Toguro power up. It just too much for me....XD)

Also, Naruto's answer is a bit short/predictable. I was hoping for some deeper explanation. I mean, I know already that he'll stick with Jiraiya's words, but how can he back that answer against (or neutralize) Pain's story. But then there is still the next chapter so not really that bad.

[Kafriel]

Ah yes, Jiraiya's first book, I can't wait to see what Naruto has to say on this one..."I wanna be a hero like this one"?,"I'll never give up until I find true peace"?,etc.etc. As for Nagato's jutsu, I think its explanation will have to wait a few chapters, until Konan starts the flashbacks (or just summarises, that works too). Having her say it would relieve Nagato of a second story and would make sense, since she knew about it beforehand.