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Old 2020-10-25, 00:39   Link #161
Marina2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well for all we know there might actually be a Queen this time...

That said, considering that it has been weeks since Keiichi recovered and Rika died and the village apparently still stands, the Queen theory most likely is still untrue.
Maybe Takano and Yamainu didn't make any movement in this world for some reasons that might be relate to clinic remodel.

We also don't know what was Rika doing behind the scene for the entire arc.
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Old 2020-10-25, 10:35   Link #162
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for Hinamizawa syndrome:


Regarding the various arguments that Keichi couldn't know certain key factors therefore they must be real, I don't think they are particularly solid because we have proof that Keichi remembered events from Onikakushi. It is therefore entirely plausible that in his delusion he affixed memories of past iterations to the present without realizing it.
I'm not entirely sure the information was clearly identified as completely false. I recall that most if not all people who developed the syndrome had periods outside of the village. The way I understood it, the pathogen has a dormant and active state, and its dormant state is most easily maintained within Hinamizawa, whether due to some hypothetical "Queen" (highly unlikely) or some other unique environmental factors unique to the region.

As for the levels, I managed to find a spot that lists them.
Spoiler for Levels:


Anyway, I am certainly curious just what Rika's been doing this time around. I look forward to finding out just why the clinic's shut down. I do agree the most likely scenario is that Rika warned someone about Takano and she and the clinic as a whole were shut down. If that's the case this time they're not going to have to fight her and her plan, but Tokyo and their plans to control the situation.
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Old 2020-10-25, 13:03   Link #163
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I'm not entirely sure the information was clearly identified as completely false. I recall that most if not all people who developed the syndrome had periods outside of the village. The way I understood it, the pathogen has a dormant and active state, and its dormant state is most easily maintained within Hinamizawa, whether due to some hypothetical "Queen" (highly unlikely) or some other unique environmental factors unique to the region.
Satoshi and Satoko never left the village and they still developed the syndrome. Keiichi also never left after he settled.
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Old 2020-10-25, 15:02   Link #164
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I thought Satoko's parents took them out, maybe not crazy far but a bit away, after the fallout when they accepted the deal to move. And Keiichi left for something like a week or something at the very start didn't he? At the very least the researchers never showed any surprise about the syndrome becoming active despite maintaining this theory that it only activates following departure. In particular Satoko, who's had the condition for a long time and been under surveillance for a while. If she'd never left the village that would've raised serious doubts about the theory and as a result would've threatened the entire operation.
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Old 2020-10-26, 01:48   Link #165
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News of this series brought me back to this site I haven't visited in ages. Where my boomers at?

As for the show, does anyone else think they should have omitted the Rika/Hanyuu scene so they could pull off episode 4's twist later?
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Old 2020-10-26, 09:41   Link #166
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Satoshi and Satoko never left the village and they still developed the syndrome. Keiichi also never left after he settled.
Actually he did, and others too, it was just probably not long enough for the syndrome to progress.
Keiichi for example left the the village to go to the nearest town with Oishi.
Note that this has happened before his paranoia regarding Rena actually started.

Well truth to be told, both Rena and Mion kinda reaped what they have sown in Keiichi's Stage 5 Shard. But that's a minor detail.
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Old 2020-10-26, 14:35   Link #167
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Actually he did, and others too, it was just probably not long enough for the syndrome to progress.
Keiichi for example left the the village to go to the nearest town with Oishi.
Note that this has happened before his paranoia regarding Rena actually started.

Well truth to be told, both Rena and Mion kinda reaped what they have sown in Keiichi's Stage 5 Shard. But that's a minor detail.
Not to mention that the story starts out with Keiichi returning from a trip. As I'd said, I suspect departure basically acts as an initial trigger to make the pathogen active. A switch from level 1 to level 2. If a person remains too far away for too long without any time spent in the village this may further aggravate things and make it progressively more likely for the person to get worse, but once it's gotten to level 2 the sensitivities are there and the wrong stressors can and will push the person over, regardless of whether they're in the village or not. And yeah, it could be that a person can go to level 2 without leaving if there's sufficient stress, all that's clear is that leaving can and often will set that initial spark.
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Old 2020-10-27, 12:13   Link #168
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
And yeah, it could be that a person can go to level 2 without leaving if there's sufficient stress, all that's clear is that leaving can and often will set that initial spark.
That's not really clear. K1 had left the village in every single timeline, but only in a couple of them he showed signs of HS. Moreover K1's parents never showed signs of HS in any timeline.

So you can't even say that there's a probability higher than 50% that leaving Hinamizawa will lead to HS.

We simply don't have enough evidence to claim the few cases we know were triggered by people leaving Hinamizawa, it could just be coincidence, just like the first cases that started the whole Oyashiro's curse myth were nothing but coincidences.
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Old 2020-10-27, 13:27   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That's not really clear. K1 had left the village in every single timeline, but only in a couple of them he showed signs of HS. Moreover K1's parents never showed signs of HS in any timeline.

So you can't even say that there's a probability higher than 50% that leaving Hinamizawa will lead to HS.

We simply don't have enough evidence to claim the few cases we know were triggered by people leaving Hinamizawa, it could just be coincidence, just like the first cases that started the whole Oyashiro's curse myth were nothing but coincidences.
And yet, the two examples where dear friends got killed by the infected (Keiichi and Rena) have left the village prior to that. Rena for a few years before she moved back, and Keiichi on several separate occasions.
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Old 2020-10-27, 19:14   Link #170
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I'm hoping this series will explain exactly how the syndrome works.
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Old 2020-10-27, 19:30   Link #171
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That's not really clear. K1 had left the village in every single timeline, but only in a couple of them he showed signs of HS. Moreover K1's parents never showed signs of HS in any timeline.

So you can't even say that there's a probability higher than 50% that leaving Hinamizawa will lead to HS.

We simply don't have enough evidence to claim the few cases we know were triggered by people leaving Hinamizawa, it could just be coincidence, just like the first cases that started the whole Oyashiro's curse myth were nothing but coincidences.
Again, I only said that departure is a fairly certain way to go from level 1 to level 2. Both 1 and 2 are asymptomatic. In other words, my theory would hold that leaving won't make you suffer the condition, but it will activate the pathogen. Once it's active, the body becomes more sensitive to stressors and if those stressors are not avoided or handled poorly then the descent begins. A happy couple that are quite laid-back and hard to agitate would be exceptionally unlikely to develop the syndrome, while a teenage boy who's already high-strung and deep in the action is much more susceptible. I'll admit it is indeed possible that departure is mere coincidence, but the fact that all cases up to this point have that in common gives credence to it. And even if it's not related, that doesn't really change the sporadic nature of the disease. Since it takes the right kind of stressors and the right kind of reaction to begin to aggravate the condition, it makes sense that only certain people will be prone to it.
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Old 2020-10-28, 07:53   Link #172
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Okay I was a little behind on watching episode 4 but let me see if I got this straight...

Rika thought she was reliving Onikakushi-hen and focused on helping Keiichi get over his paranoia, but the events of Tsumihoroboshi-hen were happening in the background (as suggested by Rena's words last episode), unaware to everyone else. And since no one knew, no one was able to keep Rena from going Level 5.
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Old 2020-10-28, 16:05   Link #173
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One other thing, a very unfortunate consequence of whatever Rika did to stop Takano which just occurred to me. Since the Irie clinic was completely shut down, Satoko can't get treatments anymore. She became a regular at the clinic to test out treatments due to the fact that she'd made it to the final or near-final stages of the syndrome. Without those treatments she'll relapse quickly. I suspect that's what happened to her and Rika: the drug finally wore off and she had a psychotic fit, killing Rika before either killing herself in remorse or turning the knife on herself in a panicked reaction to the formication.
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Old 2020-10-29, 14:48   Link #174
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Spoiler for Ep.5:
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Old 2020-10-29, 19:11   Link #175
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Rika is still trying, but there are some unexpected changes. The Shion in all the scenes except the final one was obviously Mion. No reason for Shion to get this flustered over everything Keiichi says. Not to mention, very different behavior. Not sure where this is going to lead, but I'm interested.

Was the scene where Keiichi wondered what Rena was really like on the inside in the original too?
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Old 2020-10-29, 20:43   Link #176
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
And yet, the two examples where dear friends got killed by the infected (Keiichi and Rena) have left the village prior to that. Rena for a few years before she moved back, and Keiichi on several separate occasions.
That's way more than two. Satoko and Satoshi also left Hinamizawa for a vacation and so did Shion by enlisting at St Lucia. However considering how liberally all these characters left Hinamizawa for various reasons, it's safe to assume that the majority of the Hinamizawa's inhabitants traveled outside at least once. There's also tourists to take in account and all the people that inevitably need to regularly travel from Hinamizawa to other places as part of their work (like mailmen and anyone who needs to transports goods). So well it's easy to find a common element when practically anyone has it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I'll admit it is indeed possible that departure is mere coincidence, but the fact that all cases up to this point have that in common gives credence to it. And even if it's not related, that doesn't really change the sporadic nature of the disease. Since it takes the right kind of stressors and the right kind of reaction to begin to aggravate the condition, it makes sense that only certain people will be prone to it.
Is there confirmation that the original case that started the "Oyashiro-sama curse" left Hinamizawa before going L5 forcing the other workers to kill him? I was under the impression that they set a camp to live in for the duration of the works.

At any rate the main problem I see is that there isn't really a logical explanation as to why leaving Hinamizawa would bring someone to L2. Something so strange should have warranted an explanation, but none was given other than the Queen theory, which was proven wrong.


Regarding the latest episode, it seems that we are still getting something that could be easily mistaken for a remake. There were really very few new scenes. This wasn't even the first time Keiichi gave the doll to Mion, it happened in minagoroshi already. I expected to see some more dialogue between Rika and Hanyuu. I wonder where this is all going.

By the way, I completely forgot why K1 not giving the doll to Mion triggers HS in Shion.
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Old 2020-10-30, 02:30   Link #177
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If Keiichi didn't give the doll to Mion, the latter would complain to Shion how unfair it is since Rena already got something etc.
This subsequently made Shion remembers her bitterness and jealousy towards Mion because the former lost everything while Mion still has a shot in love and whatnot. And I assume it also made Shion resent her even more since Shion is supposed to be "Mion" to begin with.
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Old 2020-10-30, 04:40   Link #178
MeoTwister5
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TBH at this point I can't even remember in the original at which points one twin was acting as the other.
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Old 2020-10-30, 04:42   Link #179
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That was part of the creep factor of it. You never really know just who you're actually dealing with.....
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Old 2020-10-30, 04:52   Link #180
MeoTwister5
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And in-universe that's even worse because one twin is a lot more batshit crazy than the other by orders of magnitude (though not necessarily her fault), but the other characters don't know that.

That being said, while it's likely that Rika identified this shard to be similar to that of Watanagashi-hen, does she actually know which one of the twins they were with that she ended up convincing Keiichi to give the twin the doll? I mean one of the triggers in in Watanagashi-hen was Shion as Mion not getting the doll from Keiichi. I assume Rika convinced Keiichi to give the twin the doll to prevent this (and thus have something like a Minagoroshi-hen outcome?), but if this twin is actually Mion in this shard (and I agree with Kanon that this is probably Mion in this shard), then Shion will eventually see and learn that the doll came from Keiichi, and this has a high chance of triggering Shion again. If this stands true, then Rika just made a DEADLY mistake.

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