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Old 2020-10-22, 21:13   Link #10601
Lucidrago
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Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick View Post
To be exact Boosted Gear Diabolos and Gigantis Maiden Robe are artificial Longinus and there's a large difference between the actual longinus and the artificial longinus. They're superior to artificial sacred gear but inferior to the actual Longinus. But well they're still powerful I guess.

Yeah there's a high possibility of Kiba's two sacred gears becoming a Longinus after being successfully fused by Kiba.
I doubt Kiba's rwo Sacred Gears will become a Longinus as Ishibumi would have hinted at it long ago like he did Gasper's. And Kiba can still only use both Sacred Gears separately. And its abilities would really clash too much with Canis Lykaon's. If there was a high possibility we would have seen something by now. It's almost the end of the series and Kiba has been a major character since the beginning. If it hasn't happened by now, there's not really that much of a possibility of it happening especially since 5 new Longinus appeared.
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Old 2020-10-23, 12:49   Link #10602
saucerKing
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Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
I doubt Kiba's rwo Sacred Gears will become a Longinus as Ishibumi would have hinted at it long ago like he did Gasper's. And Kiba can still only use both Sacred Gears separately. And its abilities would really clash too much with Canis Lykaon's. If there was a high possibility we would have seen something by now. It's almost the end of the series and Kiba has been a major character since the beginning. If it hasn't happened by now, there's not really that much of a possibility of it happening especially since 5 new Longinus appeared.
well that is the point of fusing them, using both at the same time. and i dont think it clashes that much canis lykaon, they do different things, one is a dog that lets you create swords, normal cursed swords whit no special abilities, sword birth/blade blacksmith lets you give them special abilities like fire, ice, lighting, something more creative etc. and create knights and now thrusters for extra speed. it does not overlap any worse than aeon balor does whit annihilation maker, or how star shootr/star blaster is basically regulus nemea + a gun. in fact i think it would be cool for it to become a longinus, it certainly seems much more interesting than most of the new ones that were added or the already existing ones (im looking at you, absolute demise!).
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Old 2020-10-23, 13:42   Link #10603
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There's Innovate Clear with similar abilities to Dimension Lost and Annihilation Maker, so I doubt Ishibumi really minds if some basic abilities clash with each other.
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Old 2020-10-24, 04:16   Link #10604
Lucidrago
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Originally Posted by saucerKing View Post
well that is the point of fusing them, using both at the same time. and i dont think it clashes that much canis lykaon, they do different things, one is a dog that lets you create swords, normal cursed swords whit no special abilities, sword birth/blade blacksmith lets you give them special abilities like fire, ice, lighting, something more creative etc. and create knights and now thrusters for extra speed. it does not overlap any worse than aeon balor does whit annihilation maker, or how star shootr/star blaster is basically regulus nemea + a gun. in fact i think it would be cool for it to become a longinus, it certainly seems much more interesting than most of the new ones that were added or the already existing ones (im looking at you, absolute demise!).
And how would this fusion of Sacred Gears be any more powerful than anything Kiba has now like Gram or his other four demonic swords?

The thing is I don't see how creating holy and demonic swords that are inferior to holy swords like Excalibur, Galatine, Durandal, and Collbrande and demonic swords like Gram and Tyrfing, Balmung, Nothung, and one other I can't name. I see nothing of those two Sacred Gears that could possibly have it go into Longinus territory. Its ability while versatile is far inferuor to those of a Longinus.

While there is some crossing over, the Longinus themselves seem to have certain abilities distinct to them. Innovate Clear can create anything but only within a certain space. While Annihilation Maker can create monsters and Dimension Lost can transfer people to other dimensions or spaces and the fog can also be used as a defensive barrier.

And I doubt the demonic swords Kiba creates are going to be more powerful than the ones he has now. And the power of his holy swords are unlikely to surpass Excalibur or Durandal.

What would a fusion of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith do? Create demonic blades that can cut gods? Canis Lykaon already has that covered. Create holy swords that are powerful enough to slay a Maou? True Longinus has that. Fire. Ice, Lightning, Wind? Zenith Tempest says hello. Dragon slayers? Nereid Kyrie. Powerful swords? Star Buster Star Blaster. And Star Buster Star Blaster is kind of Regulus Nemea plus a gun but Star Buster Star Blaster seems to be purely offensive while Regulus Nemea is also defensive by the fact that it protects the user from projectiles. And in the power category, Star Buster Star Blaster surpasses Regulus Nemea seeing as its a high-tier Longinus and the fight between Sairaorg and Shooting Star.

The point is that whatever Kiba's two swords have, the other Longinus have in spades. While there is some crossover, each Longinus has an ability that it can call its own that none of the other Longinus seem to have.

If Ishibumi was so inclined to make a Longinus out of the combination of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith, he would have done it like 15 volumes ago, not wait until the series is almost at its conclusion and having introduced five new Longinus and the combination of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith not being one of them.

Plus Kiba seems to rely more on Gram than his two Sacred Gears lately.
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Old 2020-10-24, 05:07   Link #10605
saucerKing
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Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
And how would this fusion of Sacred Gears be any more powerful than anything Kiba has now like Gram or his other four demonic swords?

The thing is I don't see how creating holy and demonic swords that are inferior to holy swords like Excalibur, Galatine, Durandal, and Collbrande and demonic swords like Gram and Tyrfing, Balmung, Nothung, and one other I can't name. I see nothing of those two Sacred Gears that could possibly have it go into Longinus territory. Its ability while versatile is far inferuor to those of a Longinus.

While there is some crossing over, the Longinus themselves seem to have certain abilities distinct to them. Innovate Clear can create anything but only within a certain space. While Annihilation Maker can create monsters and Dimension Lost can transfer people to other dimensions or spaces and the fog can also be used as a defensive barrier.

And I doubt the demonic swords Kiba creates are going to be more powerful than the ones he has now. And the power of his holy swords are unlikely to surpass Excalibur or Durandal.

What would a fusion of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith do? Create demonic blades that can cut gods? Canis Lykaon already has that covered. Create holy swords that are powerful enough to slay a Maou? True Longinus has that. Fire. Ice, Lightning, Wind? Zenith Tempest says hello. Dragon slayers? Nereid Kyrie. Powerful swords? Star Buster Star Blaster. And Star Buster Star Blaster is kind of Regulus Nemea plus a gun but Star Buster Star Blaster seems to be purely offensive while Regulus Nemea is also defensive by the fact that it protects the user from projectiles. And in the power category, Star Buster Star Blaster surpasses Regulus Nemea seeing as its a high-tier Longinus and the fight between Sairaorg and Shooting Star.

The point is that whatever Kiba's two swords have, the other Longinus have in spades. While there is some crossover, each Longinus has an ability that it can call its own that none of the other Longinus seem to have.

If Ishibumi was so inclined to make a Longinus out of the combination of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith, he would have done it like 15 volumes ago, not wait until the series is almost at its conclusion and having introduced five new Longinus and the combination of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith not being one of them.

Plus Kiba seems to rely more on Gram than his two Sacred Gears lately.
guess you did not read issei fight against him because the last holy-demonic sword he created actually hurt issei, and he is heavenly-dragon class so a god is not going to run much better luck. name me one time excalibur has actually done anything comparable to that.

again, kiba holy-demonic swords have a feat well above anything excalibur has shown when he hurt issei, and that is not including the fact that kiba sword technically could have special abilities on top of that.

there is also the thrusters he used, and the summoned knights which he can use as armor and have his same speed. but lets just pretend kiba can just create swords, and yes there is some overlap whit other longinus, but none of them are actually the exact same, the fact you have to bring two very different ones to compare it to does not help. and yes, regulus nemea is inferior to star buster star blaster, but considering its "protection" so far is worth jack (it could not even really protect more than the average BB armor against crimson blaster). and nereid kyrie is not a dragon slayer, its a dragon controlling power + sea control.

like absolute demis right? the only longinus that controls ice- wait, zenith tempest exists. and they do have an ability to call its own, for starters the holy-demonic sword absorbing one attribute to boost the opposite like he did whit cristaldi, there is also the knights, the speed increase via thrusters. it actually has more unique powers than star shooter star blaster whose only ability is hit hard in long and short range.

well, kiba has yet to fuse his two sacred gears, and like it was shown it actually hurt a god-class being. so it already has a qualification for a longinus, since its a combination of multiple abilities and can potentially hurt and kill a god.

does not change the fact that via actual feats, if he fused those two sacred gears and balance breakers it would qualify more as a longinus than something like regulus nemea.
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Old 2020-10-25, 09:17   Link #10606
Lucidrago
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guess you did not read issei fight against him because the last holy-demonic sword he created actually hurt issei, and he is heavenly-dragon class so a god is not going to run much better luck. name me one time excalibur has actually done anything comparable to that.

again, kiba holy-demonic swords have a feat well above anything excalibur has shown when he hurt issei, and that is not including the fact that kiba sword technically could have special abilities on top of that.

there is also the thrusters he used, and the summoned knights which he can use as armor and have his same speed. but lets just pretend kiba can just create swords, and yes there is some overlap whit other longinus, but none of them are actually the exact same, the fact you have to bring two very different ones to compare it to does not help. and yes, regulus nemea is inferior to star buster star blaster, but considering its "protection" so far is worth jack (it could not even really protect more than the average BB armor against crimson blaster). and nereid kyrie is not a dragon slayer, its a dragon controlling power + sea control.

like absolute demis right? the only longinus that controls ice- wait, zenith tempest exists. and they do have an ability to call its own, for starters the holy-demonic sword absorbing one attribute to boost the opposite like he did whit cristaldi, there is also the knights, the speed increase via thrusters. it actually has more unique powers than star shooter star blaster whose only ability is hit hard in long and short range.

well, kiba has yet to fuse his two sacred gears, and like it was shown it actually hurt a god-class being. so it already has a qualification for a longinus, since its a combination of multiple abilities and can potentially hurt and kill a god.

does not change the fact that via actual feats, if he fused those two sacred gears and balance breakers it would qualify more as a longinus than something like regulus nemea.
By that logic, Asia's Twilight Healing should be a Longinus. As her Balance Breaker stopped attacks from a Super Devil.

You really can't use a Balance Breaker to qualify a Sacred Gear as a Longinus because as the name implies, Balance Breakers are meant to be broken. Kiba's Balance Breaker for Sword Birth, [Sword of the Betrayer], is unique to him and quite broken as it creates swords that have both demonic and holy attributes combined. But that's a Balance Breaker that is unique to Kiba alone.

If Kiba's Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith combined, what new abilities would it have that are different than the abilities each of those Sacred Gears have? Kiba's Holy Demonic Sword is a Balance Breaker and can't be used in the classifying of a Sacred Gear as a Longinus as the Longinus in their base states are quite broken, not just their Balance Breakers.

I have not seen Sword Birth or Blade Blacksmith accomplish anything that I would say is at the level of a Longinus in their base states. Unless you think the combination of those two Sacred Gears is going to give Kiba broken abilities in its base state. Because regardless of the fact the two are Sacred Gears that are two sides of the same coin, they are still different and unless you can think of some ability that can be said to be Longinus-class that the combination of these two Sacred Gears would have, it just seems far-fetched that it could evolve into a Longinus.

And besides wouldn't Saji's four Sacred Gears have combined before Kiba's ever did? And would it make sense for Kiba to have two Sacred Gears and a Longinus? Unless you think that Kiba's no longer is going to have those Sacred Gears when they combine but somehow retain the Balance Breakers achieved for those two separate Sacred Gears?
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Old 2020-10-25, 10:02   Link #10607
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By that logic, Asia's Twilight Healing should be a Longinus. As her Balance Breaker stopped attacks from a Super Devil.

You really can't use a Balance Breaker to qualify a Sacred Gear as a Longinus because as the name implies, Balance Breakers are meant to be broken. Kiba's Balance Breaker for Sword Birth, [Sword of the Betrayer], is unique to him and quite broken as it creates swords that have both demonic and holy attributes combined. But that's a Balance Breaker that is unique to Kiba alone.

If Kiba's Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith combined, what new abilities would it have that are different than the abilities each of those Sacred Gears have? Kiba's Holy Demonic Sword is a Balance Breaker and can't be used in the classifying of a Sacred Gear as a Longinus as the Longinus in their base states are quite broken, not just their Balance Breakers.

I have not seen Sword Birth or Blade Blacksmith accomplish anything that I would say is at the level of a Longinus in their base states. Unless you think the combination of those two Sacred Gears is going to give Kiba broken abilities in its base state. Because regardless of the fact the two are Sacred Gears that are two sides of the same coin, they are still different and unless you can think of some ability that can be said to be Longinus-class that the combination of these two Sacred Gears would have, it just seems far-fetched that it could evolve into a Longinus.

And besides wouldn't Saji's four Sacred Gears have combined before Kiba's ever did? And would it make sense for Kiba to have two Sacred Gears and a Longinus? Unless you think that Kiba's no longer is going to have those Sacred Gears when they combine but somehow retain the Balance Breakers achieved for those two separate Sacred Gears?
by actual logic? it depends, if she needs fafnir help whit it or she can use it by herself but if is the latter then i would say yes, because some actual longinus, it has actual feats to it, otherwise i would like to know why dimension lost is one when it has 0 offensive powers.

you actually can, otherwise i would like to know why things like incinerate anthem are there at all. since a powerful user of it failed to kill sairaorg despite the advantage. you mean like aeon balor? because that balance breaker is exclusive to gasper too, i dont see you questioning it being a longinus, not to mention that if kiba really fuses those two sacred gears it will be a thing completely different than the two separated.

it would have both, in one sacred gear, it will have swords that can hurt literal gods as shown when he used it whit issei, it will have knights that can wield said swords and are just as fast, it will create swords that not only are sharp but have special abilities. they are quite broken... you mean like aeon balor, which only exhibits the power that made it a longinus in balance breaker?

sure, keep ignoring how aeon balor is a longinus for its balance breaker since its base state has never shown anything beyond the standard forbidden balor view.

well saji is an entirely different character and that argument has really no relation to this. and what do you think is the point of combining them? being able to use both at the same time, what other reason would he have to combine them? even if they only exhibit the god-killing in balance breaker state its still a valid longinus, incinerate anthem never showed such power in base state nor did aeon balor, are they not longinus too? because all of your arguments to deny such a fusion not being a longinus can be applied to aeon balor too, and its currently recognized as a longinus.
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Old 2020-10-25, 16:49   Link #10608
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by actual logic? it depends, if she needs fafnir help whit it or she can use it by herself but if is the latter then i would say yes, because some actual longinus, it has actual feats to it, otherwise i would like to know why dimension lost is one when it has 0 offensive powers.

you actually can, otherwise i would like to know why things like incinerate anthem are there at all. since a powerful user of it failed to kill sairaorg despite the advantage. you mean like aeon balor? because that balance breaker is exclusive to gasper too, i dont see you questioning it being a longinus, not to mention that if kiba really fuses those two sacred gears it will be a thing completely different than the two separated.

it would have both, in one sacred gear, it will have swords that can hurt literal gods as shown when he used it whit issei, it will have knights that can wield said swords and are just as fast, it will create swords that not only are sharp but have special abilities. they are quite broken... you mean like aeon balor, which only exhibits the power that made it a longinus in balance breaker?

sure, keep ignoring how aeon balor is a longinus for its balance breaker since its base state has never shown anything beyond the standard forbidden balor view.

well saji is an entirely different character and that argument has really no relation to this. and what do you think is the point of combining them? being able to use both at the same time, what other reason would he have to combine them? even if they only exhibit the god-killing in balance breaker state its still a valid longinus, incinerate anthem never showed such power in base state nor did aeon balor, are they not longinus too? because all of your arguments to deny such a fusion not being a longinus can be applied to aeon balor too, and its currently recognized as a longinus.
A powerful user of Incinerate Anthem failed to kill Sairaorg whose defense surpasses common sense and was clad in his Longinus' Balance Breaker.

You're saying that a combination of those two Sacred Gears will have the same abilities they always had. Create holy swords of various attributes? Jeanne can do that too. Create demonic swords of various attributes? Kiba could do that in Volume 1. And then you just add in their Balance Breakers like that changes the original abilities of those Sacred Gears.

And Issei is a devil and a dragon. And Kiba can create holy swords and dragon slayers. Issei isn't an actual god like Shiva or Indra. You can't say it will hurt a god that doesn't have a soecific weakness to those swords. And neither is he a Dragon God.

The thing with Gasper's Forbidden Balor View evolving into Aeon Balor is due to the fact that he had a fragment of Balor's soul within him.

Those two Sacred Gears combining would have nothing to do with their respective Balance Breakers. As you seem to imply that they could become one Sacred Gear but Kiba has achieved Balance Breaker with them both. You're not really saying what could classify it as a Longinus that we haven't seen already and yet it hasn't been classified as one. Each of these Sacred Gears have one ability even if that ability is vert versatile, it is still one ability. You seem to try to include Kiba's Holy Demonic sword when you imply that the combined two Sacred Gears can become a Longinus, seeming to pass over the fact that that is Kiba's unique Balance Breaker for Sword Birth and if Kiba dies and it passes on to someone else, it's very unlikely they have the same Balance Breaker that Kiba had.

So your qualifications for it being a Longinus is that it can create holy demonic swords hurt a devil. You did realize that Kiba put an incredible amount of aura in that sword. Again Balance Breakers are pretty much broken of say nothing of the original ability of the Sacred Gear being Longinus-class. They can create various attributes of holy and demonic swords which any possessor of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksnith can do.

Kiba's Dragon Knights won't be able to wield Holy Demonic Swords as it was explained that two Balance Breakers can't combine.

So you really are only using the fact that Kiba's Balance Breaker managed to pierce Issei's DxD armor after he put everything into that final attack which was far from a regular attack. Then why wasn't it considered a Longinus after that fight?

You seem to have this problem where you are confusing the original abilities of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith with Kiba's respective Balance Breakers for them, [Sword of the Betrayer] and [Glory Drag Trooper]. You talk of combining those two Sacred Gears like creating holy demonic swords will become an original ability of those two if they fused.
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Old 2020-10-25, 19:32   Link #10609
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By that logic, Asia's Twilight Healing should be a Longinus. As her Balance Breaker stopped attacks from a Super Devil.
Her situation is a bit different. Fafnir is a temporary fixture in twilight healing. He’s not actually a part of it. If he was permanently fused with it then sure, it could qualify as a Longinus. If they remain separate then it doesn’t qualify
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Old 2020-10-25, 21:08   Link #10610
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A powerful user of Incinerate Anthem failed to kill Sairaorg whose defense surpasses common sense and was clad in his Longinus' Balance Breaker.

You're saying that a combination of those two Sacred Gears will have the same abilities they always had. Create holy swords of various attributes? Jeanne can do that too. Create demonic swords of various attributes? Kiba could do that in Volume 1. And then you just add in their Balance Breakers like that changes the original abilities of those Sacred Gears.

And Issei is a devil and a dragon. And Kiba can create holy swords and dragon slayers. Issei isn't an actual god like Shiva or Indra. You can't say it will hurt a god that doesn't have a soecific weakness to those swords. And neither is he a Dragon God.

The thing with Gasper's Forbidden Balor View evolving into Aeon Balor is due to the fact that he had a fragment of Balor's soul within him.

Those two Sacred Gears combining would have nothing to do with their respective Balance Breakers. As you seem to imply that they could become one Sacred Gear but Kiba has achieved Balance Breaker with them both. You're not really saying what could classify it as a Longinus that we haven't seen already and yet it hasn't been classified as one. Each of these Sacred Gears have one ability even if that ability is vert versatile, it is still one ability. You seem to try to include Kiba's Holy Demonic sword when you imply that the combined two Sacred Gears can become a Longinus, seeming to pass over the fact that that is Kiba's unique Balance Breaker for Sword Birth and if Kiba dies and it passes on to someone else, it's very unlikely they have the same Balance Breaker that Kiba had.

So your qualifications for it being a Longinus is that it can create holy demonic swords hurt a devil. You did realize that Kiba put an incredible amount of aura in that sword. Again Balance Breakers are pretty much broken of say nothing of the original ability of the Sacred Gear being Longinus-class. They can create various attributes of holy and demonic swords which any possessor of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksnith can do.

Kiba's Dragon Knights won't be able to wield Holy Demonic Swords as it was explained that two Balance Breakers can't combine.

So you really are only using the fact that Kiba's Balance Breaker managed to pierce Issei's DxD armor after he put everything into that final attack which was far from a regular attack. Then why wasn't it considered a Longinus after that fight?

You seem to have this problem where you are confusing the original abilities of Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith with Kiba's respective Balance Breakers for them, [Sword of the Betrayer] and [Glory Drag Trooper]. You talk of combining those two Sacred Gears like creating holy demonic swords will become an original ability of those two if they fused.
you right about that, it failed to kill a guy that at best was satan-class despite the absurd type advantage when bedeze was actually constantly overpowering him much later and bedeze himself was nowhere near god-class. like i said, in base it could not kill a guy whit a weakness to it who was not even god-class.

emphasis on him, not his sacred gear, on him. there is no mention of balor being inside the sacred gear so once gasper dies the next guy wont get forbidden balor invade, yet it still considered a longinus.

just like gasper, once gasper dies the next guy gets forbidden balor view, not aeon balor since balor is part of gasper and not the gear. and combining both means kiba new balance breaker would have the abilities of both, that is the whole point of combining them. when that happens its not sword birth nor blade blacksmith anymore, it becomes its own thing whit its own balance breaker.

it can create holy-demonic swords that can hurt a guy who can go into a fist fight whit a top 10 being, yes there is type advantage but kiba is not exactly a powerhouse. incinerate anthem is considered a longinus because it supposedly can hurt devils gravely, yet it failed to kill a guy who was barely, if at all satan-class while kiba swords managed to hurt someone several orders of magnitude stronger. then why is aeon balor a longinus? it only exhibits its actual god-killing power on balance breaker, and it too is exclusive to gasper even more than kiba balance breaker is.

at this point im doubting you actually understand what "fuse the two sacred gears" actually means. the whole point of fusing them is using the abilities of both balance breakers at the same time, otherwise what would even be the point of fusing them? once that happens its not either sacred gear anymore, sword birth can create demonic swords, blade blacksmith holy ones, but neither of them can create both. once they fuse it would have a mix of both balance breakers, which is drag troopers + holy demonic swords, possibly even the thrusters too. so stop saying "blade blacksmith cant do this, sword birth cant do that at the same time" because the whole point is to make them actually work at the same time.

even if he put everything into that attack, that was still an attack from a guy whose power reserves are not god-like, against a guy that is very likely on the top 10 strongest, its the equivalent of an ultimate-class being putting everything into a single attack against a chief god being. hell, look at the rias vs kokabiel short moment, rias power is specialized in destruction and kokabiel said she was ultimate-class after boosting and he still stopped that attack, whit his bare hands. the difference between kiba and issei is massively larger, if that last attack actually hurt issei it means it can hurt a considerably less powerful being like a non-combat god.

no, the problem is that you keep thinking im talking about either blade blacksmith or sword birth separately, or used at the same time, when im talking about a theoretical individual sacred gear that would result from such fusion. and if it happens, it makes more sense that such a sacred gear would default to the two balance breakers it had before the fusion put together rather than just choosing the default one of either.
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Old 2020-10-26, 12:02   Link #10611
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If I'm not wrong in dxd Ex it was said that kiba reached the superdemon class, then it is possible that in the future his sacred gear will become a longinus so that he has reached that level.
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Old 2020-10-26, 12:09   Link #10612
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The future Super Devils confirmed are Gasper and Millicas, Kiba wasn't said to be one. With the timeline changing, there's now Verrine and Balberith to consider and we can safely include Ingvild as a future Super Devil.
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Old 2020-10-29, 23:58   Link #10613
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you right about that, it failed to kill a guy that at best was satan-class despite the absurd type advantage when bedeze was actually constantly overpowering him much later and bedeze himself was nowhere near god-class. like i said, in base it could not kill a guy whit a weakness to it who was not even god-class.

emphasis on him, not his sacred gear, on him. there is no mention of balor being inside the sacred gear so once gasper dies the next guy wont get forbidden balor invade, yet it still considered a longinus.

just like gasper, once gasper dies the next guy gets forbidden balor view, not aeon balor since balor is part of gasper and not the gear. and combining both means kiba new balance breaker would have the abilities of both, that is the whole point of combining them. when that happens its not sword birth nor blade blacksmith anymore, it becomes its own thing whit its own balance breaker.

it can create holy-demonic swords that can hurt a guy who can go into a fist fight whit a top 10 being, yes there is type advantage but kiba is not exactly a powerhouse. incinerate anthem is considered a longinus because it supposedly can hurt devils gravely, yet it failed to kill a guy who was barely, if at all satan-class while kiba swords managed to hurt someone several orders of magnitude stronger. then why is aeon balor a longinus? it only exhibits its actual god-killing power on balance breaker, and it too is exclusive to gasper even more than kiba balance breaker is.

at this point im doubting you actually understand what "fuse the two sacred gears" actually means. the whole point of fusing them is using the abilities of both balance breakers at the same time, otherwise what would even be the point of fusing them? once that happens its not either sacred gear anymore, sword birth can create demonic swords, blade blacksmith holy ones, but neither of them can create both. once they fuse it would have a mix of both balance breakers, which is drag troopers + holy demonic swords, possibly even the thrusters too. so stop saying "blade blacksmith cant do this, sword birth cant do that at the same time" because the whole point is to make them actually work at the same time.

even if he put everything into that attack, that was still an attack from a guy whose power reserves are not god-like, against a guy that is very likely on the top 10 strongest, its the equivalent of an ultimate-class being putting everything into a single attack against a chief god being. hell, look at the rias vs kokabiel short moment, rias power is specialized in destruction and kokabiel said she was ultimate-class after boosting and he still stopped that attack, whit his bare hands. the difference between kiba and issei is massively larger, if that last attack actually hurt issei it means it can hurt a considerably less powerful being like a non-combat god.

no, the problem is that you keep thinking im talking about either blade blacksmith or sword birth separately, or used at the same time, when im talking about a theoretical individual sacred gear that would result from such fusion. and if it happens, it makes more sense that such a sacred gear would default to the two balance breakers it had before the fusion put together rather than just choosing the default one of either.
The problem with that is that those are the individual Balance Breakers for Kiba's Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith. There's nothing to suggest that if Kiba's Sacred Gears fuse into one Sacred Gear that there won't be a new Balance Breaker entirely as it would be a different Sacred Gear entirely from Sword Birth or Blade Blacksmith. As you said a fusion of the two Sacred Gears, not their respective Balance Breakers. Those are two different things entirely.

And plus what would be the point of them combining if they're going to have the exact same abilities as they do now? Besides apparently using both his Balance Breakers at the same time which was stated in Shin Volume 2 to be impossible? And even then what would be the point of his dragon knights being able to wield holy demonic swords when Gram, Balmung, Nothung, Dainsleif, and Tyrfing are more powerful?

The only thing I could see is Kiba having a combined Balance Breaker for both Sacred Gears like Saji having one Balance Breaker for his four Sacred Gears. A Balance Breaker entirely different than [Sword of the Betrayer] and [Glory Drag Trooper].
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Old 2020-10-30, 00:34   Link #10614
saucerKing
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Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
The problem with that is that those are the individual Balance Breakers for Kiba's Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith. There's nothing to suggest that if Kiba's Sacred Gears fuse into one Sacred Gear that there won't be a new Balance Breaker entirely as it would be a different Sacred Gear entirely from Sword Birth or Blade Blacksmith. As you said a fusion of the two Sacred Gears, not their respective Balance Breakers. Those are two different things entirely.

And plus what would be the point of them combining if they're going to have the exact same abilities as they do now? Besides apparently using both his Balance Breakers at the same time which was stated in Shin Volume 2 to be impossible? And even then what would be the point of his dragon knights being able to wield holy demonic swords when Gram, Balmung, Nothung, Dainsleif, and Tyrfing are more powerful?

The only thing I could see is Kiba having a combined Balance Breaker for both Sacred Gears like Saji having one Balance Breaker for his four Sacred Gears. A Balance Breaker entirely different than [Sword of the Betrayer] and [Glory Drag Trooper].
why do you think kiba is trying to fuse them for in the first place? if it were to get some completely unrelated balance breaker there would be no point to it. he wants to fuse them to use both his current balance breakers at the same time. also, you still have to refute the fact that aeon balor is considered a longinus despite it being considered as such for a balance breaker 100% exclusive to gasper, if that is considered a longinus why not this one? lets also forget that azazel said that new longinus can appear from a sacred gear evolving, which would mean that if a sacred gear evolves to a point is considered a longinus whit one user, it will stay like that.

the point would be using both at the same time, as of now kiba can either create holy-demonic swords or use his knights, not both at the same time. its impossible.. which is the whole point of fusing them, the whole objective of fusing them is being able to use both at the same time or did you think he wanted to do that for the shits and giggles? his demonic swords (aside of gram) still could not damage issei like kiba last sword could though. and they could also dual wield, and use his swords to go all vlad tepes like he did at volume 2.

i like how you keep saying all of them are more powerful than kiba current swords, when one of kiba swords did damage to issei comparable to gram, and none of those swords are near that level.

i feel we are not on the same page here, kiba current balance breakers are fine, the problem he has and the reason he wants to fuse them is to use both at the same time. because his knight troopers are great support for speed and defense, while his holy demonic swords are a great boon in offense. and saji new balance breaker is frankly a step-down, it does nothing he could not do before in vritra promotion aside of the curse-field (which after the first time he used it, became irrelevant to the point it did nothing to anyone ever again). he went from a dragon that can use all his powers, to a guy in armor that can use all his powers... but in vritra form his bigger size definitely made it have better reach.

so again, if aeon balor is considered a longinus for something it can do in balance breaker, one exclusive to gasper, why does this not apply to kiba case? and kiba holy demonic swords hurt issei, a heavenly-dragon class being, that is more than what most actual longinus ever achieved and in this in the hand of someone who is never called satan-class in power. your first argument ignores gasper case, your second ignore the fact that it did exactly what a longinus is supposed to do, hurt god-like beings.
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Old 2020-10-30, 02:28   Link #10615
n0m@n
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And no DxD on December either.
...I think Ive been just posting to say that on this thread now....
And this is officially the longest break since a volume came out.
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12/19発売
●大罪烙印の魔剣使い ~歴史の闇に葬られた【最強】は、未来にてその名を轟かせる~ 【著:東雲立風/絵 :ろるあ】
 [第32回ファンタジア大賞<銀賞>]
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Old 2020-10-30, 03:31   Link #10616
Xuanwu
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Not gonna get my hopes up again...might as well wait for February to make it a full year.
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the point would be using both at the same time, as of now kiba can either create holy-demonic swords or use his knights, not both at the same time. its impossible.. which is the whole point of fusing them, the whole objective of fusing them is being able to use both at the same time or did you think he wanted to do that for the shits and giggles?
Yeah, this is the point. It's theoretically supposed to be impossible but emphasis has been placed on Kiba fusing them and becoming stronger as a result. Kiba is one of the MCs and among Ishibumi's favs so I doubt it was meant to be a throwaway line.

I would be surprised if Ishibumi doesn't make it a low-tier Longinus at least.
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Old 2020-10-30, 04:58   Link #10617
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Old 2020-10-30, 08:33   Link #10618
Raptor178
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That's unfortunate, but I can stand to wait. Rushing the novels is not a good idea.
Just think about how many projects Ishi has his dipped his fingers into:
DxD novels
Slash Dog novels
Potential season 5
SD manga

All of this whilst watching one's health can't be easy.
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Old 2020-11-01, 23:23   Link #10619
Lucidrago
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Originally Posted by saucerKing View Post
why do you think kiba is trying to fuse them for in the first place? if it were to get some completely unrelated balance breaker there would be no point to it. he wants to fuse them to use both his current balance breakers at the same time. also, you still have to refute the fact that aeon balor is considered a longinus despite it being considered as such for a balance breaker 100% exclusive to gasper, if that is considered a longinus why not this one? lets also forget that azazel said that new longinus can appear from a sacred gear evolving, which would mean that if a sacred gear evolves to a point is considered a longinus whit one user, it will stay like that.

the point would be using both at the same time, as of now kiba can either create holy-demonic swords or use his knights, not both at the same time. its impossible.. which is the whole point of fusing them, the whole objective of fusing them is being able to use both at the same time or did you think he wanted to do that for the shits and giggles? his demonic swords (aside of gram) still could not damage issei like kiba last sword could though. and they could also dual wield, and use his swords to go all vlad tepes like he did at volume 2.

i like how you keep saying all of them are more powerful than kiba current swords, when one of kiba swords did damage to issei comparable to gram, and none of those swords are near that level.

i feel we are not on the same page here, kiba current balance breakers are fine, the problem he has and the reason he wants to fuse them is to use both at the same time. because his knight troopers are great support for speed and defense, while his holy demonic swords are a great boon in offense. and saji new balance breaker is frankly a step-down, it does nothing he could not do before in vritra promotion aside of the curse-field (which after the first time he used it, became irrelevant to the point it did nothing to anyone ever again). he went from a dragon that can use all his powers, to a guy in armor that can use all his powers... but in vritra form his bigger size definitely made it have better reach.

so again, if aeon balor is considered a longinus for something it can do in balance breaker, one exclusive to gasper, why does this not apply to kiba case? and kiba holy demonic swords hurt issei, a heavenly-dragon class being, that is more than what most actual longinus ever achieved and in this in the hand of someone who is never called satan-class in power. your first argument ignores gasper case, your second ignore the fact that it did exactly what a longinus is supposed to do, hurt god-like beings.
I didn't mention anything about a Longinus in that post at all. But my main argument is that Ishibumi wouldn't have waited like 20 volumes or so and still not call Kiba a Longinus possessor. I do however agree with you about Aeon Balor and feel that Ishibumi needs to give us details on what Aeon Balor's abilities exactly are in its base state. As I'm confused which are the abilities of his pseudo-Balance Breaker or are just Gasper's vampire abilities.

Merging the two Sacred Gears is different from merging [Sword of the Betrayer] and [Glory Drag Trooper]. When you say combine both Sacred Gears, I think that means allowing Kiba to make holy and demonic swords at the same time and to make them one Sacred Gear. While merging his Balance Breakers is a completely separate issue.

Kiba put everything in that last attack with his Holy Demonic Sword. While Kiba and his Dragon Knights were just landing regular attacks on Issei. And we haven't really seen any Longinus possessors go up against Issei in his DxD form.

You seem to want to classify Kiba's two Sacred Gears as a Longinus. But it has only been mentioned that Kiba wants to use both Balance Breakers at the same time. Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith would still be two separate Sacred Gears though. You speak of it becoming a Longinus like Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith are going to become one Sacred Gear and then be classified as a Longinus. You really can't have it both ways.

And you're using a fight that in my view shouldn't have been competitive at all like Sairaorg vs Balberith. Regardless of how talented Kiba is, he shouldn't have stood a chance against Issei. Next I guess he's going to be taking on Vali and Crom Cruach at the same time.
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Old 2020-11-02, 00:17   Link #10620
saucerKing
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I didn't mention anything about a Longinus in that post at all. But my main argument is that Ishibumi wouldn't have waited like 20 volumes or so and still not call Kiba a Longinus possessor. I do however agree with you about Aeon Balor and feel that Ishibumi needs to give us details on what Aeon Balor's abilities exactly are in its base state. As I'm confused which are the abilities of his pseudo-Balance Breaker or are just Gasper's vampire abilities.

Merging the two Sacred Gears is different from merging [Sword of the Betrayer] and [Glory Drag Trooper]. When you say combine both Sacred Gears, I think that means allowing Kiba to make holy and demonic swords at the same time and to make them one Sacred Gear. While merging his Balance Breakers is a completely separate issue.

Kiba put everything in that last attack with his Holy Demonic Sword. While Kiba and his Dragon Knights were just landing regular attacks on Issei. And we haven't really seen any Longinus possessors go up against Issei in his DxD form.

You seem to want to classify Kiba's two Sacred Gears as a Longinus. But it has only been mentioned that Kiba wants to use both Balance Breakers at the same time. Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith would still be two separate Sacred Gears though. You speak of it becoming a Longinus like Sword Birth and Blade Blacksmith are going to become one Sacred Gear and then be classified as a Longinus. You really can't have it both ways.

And you're using a fight that in my view shouldn't have been competitive at all like Sairaorg vs Balberith. Regardless of how talented Kiba is, he shouldn't have stood a chance against Issei. Next I guess he's going to be taking on Vali and Crom Cruach at the same time.
he did not say it, because he probably wanted to save it for the moment he actually fuses them (which is what is being hinted at) and not now.

but he can make holy and demonic swords at the same time? there was never any mention of him being unable to use them in tandem, the limitation was activating balance breaker. again, why do you think he wants to fuse them at all? if it was just to have holy and demonic swords at the same time, he could use sword of the betrayer, the reason he wants to fuse them is to use knights + thrusters + holy-demonic swords. will it happen if he fuses them? maybe, maybe not, but that is his reason to want to fuse them.

see, but this debate started on a "what if kiba fused his two sacred gears". we are working on the assumption of what said sacred gear would be able to do and if it could be classified as a longinus. will they become one? we have to wait to see, but this debate is if a theoretical fusion of them would count as a longinus, since as of now we dont know what the result of kiba efforts will be.

why? last time we saw kiba fight at his fullest was 3 volumes before, and it would not be the first time kiba or anyone in the series has such a jump in power, and all he did was actually increase his speed which was always noted to be his strongest suit. also he is stated to be incredibly talented, unlike sairaorg who jumped several categories in every aspect while kiba just got an increase on speed.

and yes, talent plays an important role here, not everyone gets stronger at the same rate. sairaorg jump in power was unjustified since unlike kiba he won trough stamina... whit a form that cost a shit ton stamina. kiba at least was standing his ground trough sheer speed and technique, instead of winning via stamina against someone whit a shit ton of demonic power while using a form that burns trough stamina like crazy.

so to reiterate, if this theoretical sacred gear was created and had a balance breaker that mixes both BB (which is the whole point of wanting to fuse them) then it should be classified as a longinus, since aeon balor is and unlike even sword birth it depends entirely on something only its current user has.
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