Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't want them to do shows in every genre I listed. Just one of them. Just something outside of Iyashikei-style. Or at least something that's half another major genre, and half Iyashikei-style (similar to how Haruhi is a close to even mixture of sci-fi with slice of life-esque content).

First of all, are any of their anime "iyashikei-style" shows? I think you're using a very different definition of the term than I'm used to.

But second, don't they already have many works that qualify? Chuunibyou is a romantic comedy with fantastical battle sequences. Hyouka is a coming-of-age drama with a significant mystery theme. And the upcoming Kyoukai no Kanata has supernatural and action elements. Never mind digging back to their earlier works that focus on action/mecha, fantasy, slapstick comedy, and romantic drama. How do you fit all these under "iyashikei-style", or any given style? The only things I can see that they may possibly have in common are a high school element (to some degree) and a coming-of-age theme (again, to some degree) -- which were mentioned by cyth as his personal pet-peeves a long time ago. But those elements don't define a genre, or if they did you could include an awful lot of modern anime in it.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That's a highly debatable point. What if KyoAni made a great anime-original magical girl show, and it made Madoka Magica-esque money? That would certainly constitute greater success than what any of their recent properties have enjoyed. [...]

Cost/risk is not the same as potential reward. But there's potential reward with any show they could produce, really, even more so when they own the rights to the original work. It's sort of a dead-end argument. They have to choose what bets they want to take, and you're basically saying they're not "gutsy" enough for your liking. And I guess that's a "criticism", in a fashion, but it's of limited use.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

And the upcoming Kyoukai no Kanata has supernatural and action elements.

Well, perhaps this is the show that will cause a "meeting of the minds", as it were. If Kyoukai no Kanata is as good as promotions of it promise to be, then it might well represent the sort of show that some of us would like to see KyoAni make more of.

Perhaps this is the best note to end the debate off on - A hopeful one where fan and critic might end up liking the same show.

[Warm Mist]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I just don't see how KyoAni doing an action show would be a radical departure for them when pretty much every other major animation studio doing an action show is no big deal to those animation studios.

Every other major animation studio doing an action show either:
-Ends up doing a crappy action show, with bad action and production values in general.
-Uses an extreme amount of specialized freelancers. The only exception would be maybe early BONES, but nowadays not even them escape this clause.

Kyoani want to do neither. This is pretty simple.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Warm Mist

Every other major animation studio doing an action show either:
-Ends up doing a crappy action show, with bad action and production values in general.
-Uses an extreme amount of specialized freelancers. The only exception would be maybe early BONES, but nowadays not even them escape this clause.

Kyoani want to do neither. This is pretty simple.

Two points:

1. What I put in bold is largely subjective. "Production values" are at least somewhat objective, but what people consider good action scenes, or good action shows, can vary considerably from viewer to viewer.

2. Did KyoAni use an extreme amount of specialized freelancers for Chuunibyou? If not, then I'm fairly confident that they can do a good serious action show without relying on specialized freelancers. The basic visual quality of the action sequences in Chuunibyou is fine for a serious action show. It's just the tone of them that is an issue for those looking for a serious action show, but changing the tone of the shots would not necessarily require changing the composition of the shots. In other words, the cost/time of producing the animation would not necessarily go up.

[Warm Mist]

I don't disagree that they CAN, and WILL, do an action show. But the comparative argument I quoted doesn't hold because Kyoani's structure and working method is fundamentally different from practically every other studio in the industry.
I don't agree with your claim that Chuu2's action is fine. They can do better, and probably will for KnK.

As for the bolded, I meant more in the sense that the end result is something not even the creators would be happy with. It's hard to realize your vision if you don't have the talent/time/budget to work with, and regardless of taste I don't think anyone will disagree that most "action" shows coming out generally have mostly poor production.

On the other hand, there will always be freelancers working in any show of any type in this industry, except of course when the studio makes a conscious effort to reduce it to a minimum (e.g Kyoani, or ufotable in F/Z).

[rulfo]

Guys guys.. How about we look at it this way?


You and your "friends" pray/fund/threat some studio to pick it up and continue where KyoAni has left. I mean it's a win win situation. KyoAni is terrible right? So why are you wanting someone so terrible and washed up handling "your" favorite franchise?

Just think about all the possibilities!

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

My thoughts on Kyoani? Great visuals, great male characters most of the time, but lacking in their female characters (ever since Key adaptation days to now), severely lacking in genre and setting diversity (Only FMP and Munto "non" slice of life and I think all but one or two were set in high school). They also implement a certain type of high school antic comedy, which although is funny at times, gets very tiresome and repetitive eventually. Also their character design aesthetic tend to blow most of the time, but I'll give them a bit of slack here since a significant number of series use that A-1 Pictures Kannagi/Sora no Woto look, which Kyoani didn't "invent" in the first place when adapting K-on.

Hate to break it to you but Lucky Star was the basic foundation of K-ON's look and feel. The only difference was the latter took a more cartoony approach. I wish I could remember where I placed those pics of pre K-ON Horiguchi illustrations(The one which came from KyoAni's decommissioned site). Might shed some light on how then and now compare.

[Triple_R]

In complete honesty, I wouldn't want KyoAni to pick up and start adapting a lengthy and/or ongoing source material project that I'm fond/familiar with, because I'd seriously doubt that they'd ever actually finish it. I'd rather have something that's decently done and completely finished then something that's excellently done but also remains only half-finished for years and years and years.

In that regard, it's probably good that KyoAni is focusing more on anime original properties because then they won't have this unfinished feeling to them that some of their adaptation work does.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

In complete honesty, I wouldn't want KyoAni to pick up and start adapting a lengthy and/or ongoing source material project that I'm fond/familiar with, because I'd seriously doubt that they'd ever actually finish it. I'd rather have something that's decently done and completely finished then something that's excellently done but also remains only half-finished for years and years and years.

In that regard, it's probably good that KyoAni is focusing more on anime original properties because then they won't have this unfinished feeling to them that some of their adaptation work does.

As much as I enjoy the works that come out of Kyoto Animation I'll have to second this opinion. FMP and Haruhi are bad enough as it is. The first is just about confirmed that it'll never have a sequel see the light of day and the latter is inching ever closer to the same situation. At least for Haruhi the english translation of the novels is ongoing and has decent enough quality unlike the deceased Tokypop's adaptation of FMP.

*goes cry in the corner*

[Reckoner]

Not much to be happy about with regards to the light novels, because the way the author is going, it'll be even yet another few more years until the next light novel for Haruhi. He makes people like GRMM for song of ice and fire seem like fast writers. His rate of output is embarrassing and he probably has just much to do with the lack of a new Haruhi anime as Kadokawa or Kyoani do, if not more. After all, the anime is usually also used a promotional tool for the source material, but in this case there's nothing to promote!

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Not much to be happy about with regards to the light novels, because the way the author is going, it'll be even yet another few more years until the next light novel for Haruhi. He makes people like GRMM for song of ice and fire seem like fast writers. His rate of output is embarrassing and he probably has just much to do with the lack of a new Haruhi anime as Kadokawa or Kyoani do, if not more. After all, the anime is usually also used a promotional tool for the source material, but in this case there's nothing to promote!

Well yeah but you can't really complain about the amount of material available. After what was adapted on both "seasons" there's still more than enough for 2 or 3 cours worth of adaptations.

[Warm Mist]

I'm somewhat worried about the whereabouts of Chise Kamoi. Last credit was KA for Tamako Market episode 8, she didn't do any animation supervision in that series and she still hasn't appeared in Free! (nor has a credit for a future episode). If she wasn't working in KnK, then I don't know what she's doing and why she's absent.

It's either some specific circumstance, she's working on the new content of the Chuu2 movie extensively, or she left. I hope it's not the third, since I really like her style for sakkan'ing and she was becoming one of my favourites.
-------------------
On other stuff, the art director of KnK is a debut credit. Mikiko Watanabe. I wish I knew some BG art drawn by her, but I don't, so we'll just have to wait and see.
The colour designer Kana Miyata is also interesting. She has been at the studio since the Inuyasha days but hasn't worked as a main staffer too much. She was the colour designer for K-On!! and the Nichijou OVA. She also was color designer in these two commercials.

With both the director and the character designer being first-timers and this being the first major action production of the studio since they've established themselves as a powerhouse, I think it'll be an interesting production to follow from the staff side of things. I'm hoping for Ishidate bothering to do some KA, and a lot of Kigami work pretty please!

[rulfo]

If she doesn't show up on free, she will be missed. IIRC there's a staff list at KyoAni's site. If so is she still listed?

Such a shame really. I liked how Kamoi went with the designs. They felt more mature in a way especially Mitsuki.

[kyouray]

Originally Posted by rulfo

Such a shame really. I liked how Kamoi went with the designs. They felt more mature in a way especially Mitsuki.

I agree. The design is slightly different but I had the same feeling. Former Mitsuki had a more distinct nose and smaller eyes...
I wonder why they changed and I hope it isn't as Warm Mist says.

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by kyouray

I agree. The design is slightly different but I had the same feeling. Former Mitsuki had a more distinct nose and smaller eyes...
I wonder why they changed and I hope it isn't as Warm Mist says.

Free also had some changes in it's designs compared to what we saw with the CM. Whilst both was handled by Nishiya, the latter went with a more buffed approach. We could say that the change in designs means that Ishidate might be trying to appeal to certain audiences. However, why not just ask the Kamoi to touch it up? Why make Kadowaki handle the designs and completely remove the previous AD from the project? Yes it did happen with Nozomi Ousaka but that person was an outsider and never worked on any CMs. Kamoi on the other hand worked with them for quite a long time. So I'm half expecting Warm Mist's 3rd option to be the case.

Well anyway in a few weeks we should get an idea if she might have left KyoAni. Some people were saying that Kamoi might be involved in a future project.

I say nay to that. Even if Ishidate was drafted as a major staff member for future projects he'd still do something on the sides of other projects.

So now.. If Kamoi did leave, who will carry on with the LN illustration? Will another one step up or will she still continue doing so but outside of KyoAni's premise?

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Cloudenvy

In the midst of anime promos in the last 24 hours, how in the world does KyoAni's come off as the least impressive or interesting? Anime is obviously dead!

Their PVs are usually very understated. I mean... people were going, "Wut?" at the PV for Hyouka before being blown away by the series.

Cheers.

[Cloudenvy]

Originally Posted by Skane

Their PVs are usually very understated. I mean... people were going, "Wut?" at the PV for Hyouka before being blown away by the series.

Cheers.

Hyouka was kind of a very understated series as a whole, so there's no way you could make a PV seem exciting without trying to sell the series as something it's not.

Kyoukai does not seem like such a show, so I'm surprised this is the tone they chose to present it with. Especially with the amount of promos released today/yesterday, Kyoukai just kind of disappears into the background.

[Nachtwandler]

Hyouka is the second worst KyoAni show after Munto. Even K-ON S2 were less boring. IMHO of cause

(*predicts rage from fans but it's really a personal opinion not a trolling*)

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

Hyouka is the second worst KyoAni show after Munto. Even K-ON S2 were less boring. IMHO of cause

(*predicts rage from fans but it's really a personal opinion not a trolling*)

Just to let you know, many people particularily non Kyoani fans consider Hyouka Kyoani's best anime since the Dissappearance movie since it was a understated, restrained subtle series instead of being obnoxiously and bombastically melodramatic or slapstick like they usually are.

[Nachtwandler]

Pocari_Sweat

It's too bland. And has almost zero character development(protag even degradeted IMHO).

Yes, direction, visuals and music are good but the anime itself is just... hm... "empty". It tries to be smth but in fact nothing.
It's quite average as SoL. It has almost zero romance. Same goes for comedy. Drama is decent but bad executed. And I can't even concider this as detective/mystery anime because of childish cases. And all the characters except of Hotaro were quite cliché.

And I already said it's a personal opinion. I would never understand why people like Hyouka. Same goes for K-On(although S1 was at least decent as comedy). But it's their right. Just that people should have their own right to dislike smth.

[kyouray]

I compared KnK's CM setting with anime setting :

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Actually it didn't change that much. Only Mitsuki feels different.

By the way I'm surprised nobody linked it here but ultimatemegax translated a KyoAni roundtable which was held in 2011 with Yasuhiro Takemoto, Yoshiji Kigami and Taichi Ishidate : http://ultimatemegax.wordpress.com/2...ni-roundtable/
That sure is interesting and pleasant to read!