2010-07-12, 17:27 | Link #13721 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Age: 31
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Wait so Erika can freeze time to do all that but Kanon or Battler can't? That's damn unfair.
I think Ryukishi is a bit awkward with this though, so the gameboard is meant to be frozen after the logic error, which continued to exist because Battler was trapped. But during the duel between Erika and Beatrice, Dlanor 'updates' about the window seal being altered, thus Kanon is actually able to rescue Battler, so the logic error can be fixed. Um...so if it's frozen, it's as though a truth was added and the pieces automatically adopted new positions, and as if the previous position had never existed? I'm honestly damn confused about this... |
2010-07-12, 17:33 | Link #13723 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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Think of it like a paused game. No future developments can be added to muddle anything. In other words, to just preserve the current state. It seems that the past can be changed to fix the error, but nothing can be added to "escape" the crisis. |
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2010-07-12, 17:34 | Link #13724 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I'm not sure. There's times when he stops to argue with Beato where time freezes, though there's just as many where it doesn't. I think the Game Master is the one who does all the time freezing, but the human side has the right to request (or in Battler's case, desire) time freezing, and the Game Master must do so, unless circumstances make them unavailable to.
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2010-07-12, 19:01 | Link #13725 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Age: 31
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I wonder then, if a past event is altered, not only is the present event altered as a result of fixing that error in the present, but it could even be considered as becoming the new truth. So the previous truth is altered. Probably just wishful thinking on my part though, and even more so if I try to find a way to apply it to the contradiction of red. After the red of only Battler exiting the room, I do not recall any changes made to fix any error in the present. Though did the logic error actually remain present until Kanon 'escaped'? Battler was only freed after Beatrice won the duel with her perfect closed room idea where Kanon also 'escaped'. Battler remained 'trapped' even after the red she used about "only Erika and Kanon entering, only Battler exiting". So the logic error was only truly fixed when she stated the red truth about Kanon not being present in the guestroom. This would be like saying she stated a wrong red truth and this kept the logic error going but that just sounds crazy... I bet I'm just rambling on now and it probably doesn't make sense anymore...it's 1am here right now, I think I'll just catch some sleep.. |
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2010-07-12, 22:11 | Link #13726 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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I'm back from reading the translated version of episode 6. I must say, I can't quite deny Shkanontrice after that.
But, like many other people, I am left with perhaps more questions than answers. The biggest elephant in the room being this. Is Shkanontrice the murderer? The episode clearly points to this, with Shannon and Kanon's duel, specifically them cheerfully awaiting the day that everyone dies and the golden land opens. But... I find it hard to believe that Battler would so quickly side with his family's murderer, regardless of the motive.... |
2010-07-12, 22:17 | Link #13727 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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There's really no explanation of a murderer at all. Indeed, Erika aside, there are no murders. So whether Shkanon is true or not, Shannon and Kanon certainly aren't being portrayed as murderers. Their grudge is with each other, not with anybody else.
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2010-07-12, 22:24 | Link #13728 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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In the context of episode six, yes, I understand, no one truly died due to the game's initial set-up.(Until Erika got "ahead" of herself) But, do remember, at the end of their duel they talk about the day when "all will die" and other creepy, ominous nonsense.
And of course we have the problem of Beatrice's soul, in addition to Kanon's being absorbed by Shannon. If Jessica's soul were also absorbed, that scene wouldn't be as damning, but.... Well, suffice it to say that episode 6 is rather troubling for someone who thought that Beatrice was innocent of the murders. |
2010-07-12, 22:26 | Link #13729 |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
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Maybe that really just is the truth. Given the explosion at the end and lack of evidence for a murder, the murders could have just been something added by the message bottles and never have taken place at all. Everyone just gets killed by the game-ending disaster.
I can't tell if that would be awesome or just really silly. Depends on presentation, I suppose. |
2010-07-12, 22:33 | Link #13731 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Unfortunately since they are meta-characters that are talking it isn't clear if they know all that as meta-characters who have repeated the game over and over, or that they know that even as shannon and kanon in their roles as pieces in the gameboard.
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2010-07-12, 22:53 | Link #13732 |
I'm almost there!
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Not sure if it's been discussed here, but is it possible that Beatrice put herself into a logic error at the end of Ep 4? This could explain her coma-like state Ep 5, because she didn't want to fight Battler anymore, she put herself into a logic error to escape him.
Which would mean there is a logic error somewhere in Ep 4. Probably among the last few red texts... |
2010-07-13, 01:02 | Link #13734 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Hm... can't say I agree with you though. Beato is a master of closed rooms, so much that once she regains her former self, she solves Battler's Logic Error in no time at all, and then proceeds to construct an even more devious puzzle which isn't a Logic Error. And I think someone, either Virgillia/Kumasawa or Lambda said that Beato never caused a Logic Error during her games. It might not have been in red, but there's no reason to think they're lying. |
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2010-07-13, 01:08 | Link #13735 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Course, Battler comes along afterwards, and seems to screw the entire love trials ending (with Zepar and Furfur's approval) to marry Beato, so I'm not to sure on that last point. |
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2010-07-13, 01:17 | Link #13736 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Now that I think about it, I'm not sure it's possible to create a logic error. There has to be some reason why Battler couldn't say "I was born from Asumu" in red. That might even be part of the torture of 'logic errors': you know there's a way out, but you don't know if you're capable of finding it alone.
Of course, it could just be that the past is set in stone, so different rules apply.
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2010-07-13, 01:24 | Link #13737 | |
I'm almost there!
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And if you're the Game Master, like Beatrice was, I wouldn't say it's impossible to create a logic error on purpose... Especially in the state Beatrice was in by the end of Ep4. |
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2010-07-13, 01:30 | Link #13738 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
If Genius Battler is false, then his largest problem was trying to make one of his early puzzles the one Erika fails at. He constantly added details on, trying to confuse her, but ended up only confusing himself. On the other hand, this is also support for the Genius Battler Theory. After all, if you want to fall into a trap that your opponent is making, fall into it early so that there's little room for complication. |
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2010-07-13, 01:33 | Link #13739 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Wait, could the referee of the game also call Logic Errors? I think it's hinted at that being a possibility. So Lambda possibly could've called her on any Logic Errors she made. And since she didn't, I can still say that Beato never actually created one. |
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2010-07-13, 01:50 | Link #13740 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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And don't forget that, unless Genius Battler was true, he didn't know that the other people were dead until it was too late. Except for that fact, he had a clear way out from start to finish.
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