Toradora! - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Er that's simply not true. Didn't anyone ever teach you that knowing how to swim and saving a drowning person are two completely different things? In fact a lot of accidents occurs because someone wanting to save a drowning person gets caught and both dies as a result. The responsible thing really is to inform someone who does know how to do it (eg teacher in charge, life guard), and not jump in.

Also by your logic public swimming pools would never need trained life guards because "most people would be able to swim" and it's "just a swimming pool". Also there is no proof that many students know how to swim as swimming class in Japan is compulsary - meaning you have to attend even if you don't know how to swim! eg Taiga

Ok saying "everyone knows how to swim is a little overboard, but my point is, even if "knowing how to swim and saving a drowning person are two completely different things", the students should at least be conscious that a life needs saving, instead of screwing about like ignorant fools in the pool not giving a damn about Ryuji drowning.

And i don't think trying to save someone from a swimming pool could be that dangerous; its not like attempting a rescue in the sea or something. Of course, a life guard is mandatory in such a pool, but the students should be saving Ryuji, since a life guard wasn't present (or didn't notice), at that moment.

But I agree, I simply assumed everyone except Taiga knew how to swim. Sorry for that!

[Caster13]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

But one thing bugs me a lot here. When Taiga literally bully Ryuji with physical attacks like a wooden sword attack, a kick to the back of the face, uppercut punches and whatnot no one blinks an eye here or hell, laughed at it whenever she feel wants to. But when Ryuji manhandles her mildly for a right cause, people here are not happy. What gives?

I think it's because of our expectations. We all know Aisaka's got trouble keeping her emotions in check so we expect her to be violent where has Ryuuji's supposed to be the upstanding, white knight, gentleman.

[Semantics]

Great episode, though pacing was a bit off. Not sure if it's just me but the dramatic part at the end felt kind of abrupt and short; like it was just stuck in as something to make people anticipate/come back for the next episode. I'd have prefer if more time was spent on the scene and the emotional moments (hence impact) flushed out longer.

But despite that, the series is still proving to be pretty consistent. The episode felt much longer than 20 minutes, with much hilarity and character development as usual. Bald Minorin scared the hell out of me though. Looking very forward to the Cultural Festival next episode.

I like how the plot is moving onwards quickly to the next arc and the unavoidable questions Taiga and Ryuuji face with regards to their relationship and their own predicaments. IMO, Taiga's father embodies a tool that tests the strength of their relationship such that both are experiencing doubt and hesitation in doing the 'right' thing ie Taiga leaving with her father. For Taiga, the prospect of leaving the situation (and intimate relationship) her and Ryuuji are in is another reason for avoiding her father, other than him "abandoning" her. Ryuuji-wise, he finally gets to confront the issue of missing a father (yet inheriting his features that has a relatively large impact on his life) and the toil that comes with it, mixed with the possibility of losing Taiga but at the same time watching out and taking care of her by making sure she does have a father to go to in the end, unlike himself.


Overall, episode = 9/10. I'm lovin' this series and its characters. High school romantic comedy like no other.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by satuross

girl kick boys = good comedy

boy kick girls = bad bad bad


does this explain enough? ^_^

afterall, if a girl touches a boy, she cant be accused sexual harrasment. because the police will just laugh at you.
this is how the world moves XD u guys just have to live with it ahhahaa.

I don't know which part of world you come from seriously. Gender equality goes both way which something many people don't realize. I have seen and counseled few guys who got emotional trauma after being beat up by their female spouse and it is not FUNNY at all. The females knew that they unable to match up in strength so they compensated either using weapons like chair or kitchen utensils in their physical bullying. Not to mention their constant nagging and emotional games they impose on their suffering companions.

I know this is not relevant, but I feel you have to open your eyes little bit more.

Cheers.

[Vexx]

I think you need to also understand the inherent surreality of animation and the use of physical memes that metaphorically represent emotions? Maybe?

[satuross]

I know this is not relevant, but I feel you have to open your eyes little bit more.

Cheers.

reffering to anime world.

Afterall, clannad, toradora and some other anime's all has some scene (or lots of em) where the girl does a high/flying/swirling/twirling/backflip kick to the guys XXX , or where the girl does a 1000 hit combo, and another where the girl made a knee dive on the poor guy.

and still people say she is MOE (or something)

the reasoning is simple. Because its just generally accepted in the anime world if the girl beats up the guy. but NOT the other way round.

hence, people complain when ryuuji pins down taiga.

i dont though. and i think Ryuuji has enough reason to be pissed off with taiga.

[Bennyswan]

Ill be honest.... I kinda liked it when Ryuuji pinned Taiga against the wall....

*slowly walks towards the door*

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I think you need to also understand the inherent surreality of animation and the use of physical memes that metaphorically represent emotions? Maybe?

I really want to agree with you , Vexx. Seriously I want to.

But reading the novel and watching anime, it did not look very metaphorical at all. Taiga is indeed a very forceful in her physical prowess and poor Ryuji got heaps from her. Literally.

I trying to search that it is just a metaphorical emotive outburst like you described. But it is simply not there.

I am one of those people tend to frown on anime meme of female bullying male is acceptable trope. That is just me.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by satuross

reffering to anime world.

Afterall, clannad, toradora and some other anime's all has some scene (or lots of em) where the girl does a high/flying/swirling/twirling/backflip kick to the guys XXX , or where the girl does a 1000 hit combo, and another where the girl made a knee dive on the poor guy.

and still people say she is MOE (or something)

the reasoning is simple. Because its just generally accepted in the anime world if the girl beats up the guy. but NOT the other way round.

hence, people complain when ryuuji pins down taiga.

i dont though. and i think Ryuuji has enough reason to be pissed off with taiga.

Lol, as in, what happens in anime stays in anime. They are governed by a different set of rules than from real life, so we don't expect copy and paste morals for both.

Back on topic, Ryuji must have been very pissed or stressed to pin Taiga to the door. You will notice that after he lets go, there are red marks on her arm. In the previous episodes, Taiga abuses him, but he hardly fights back. This time, he lashes out so fiercely even taiga cannot break free from him.

It really gives me the impression...

gentle giant x vicious cat

[satuross]

@stormy
the point is, the animation and the novel world (and the manga world, and the light novel world, and the bT world) =/= real world.

even if taiga beats up ryuji to a pulp (literally) in any of the LHS (left hand side) , it would still be have no correlation with relationships in the real world. Afterall, no one in the real world breaks into a house and try to kill their class mates just because of a simple bag....right?....right..?.......right...??........ .....................well okay, not in malaysia/uk.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Ryuji's expression when he realized what he has done is priceless though. Excellent call by the animation staff, IMHO.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by satuross

the point is, the animation and the novel world (and the manga world, and the light novel world, and the bT world) =/= real world.

even if taiga beats up ryuji to a pulp (literally) in any of the LHS (left hand side) , it would still be have no correlation with relationships in the real world. Afterall, no one in the real world breaks into a house and try to kill their class mates just because of a simple bag....right?....right..?.......right...??........ .....................well okay, not in malaysia/uk.

Its not just a bag, whats at stake is Taiga's love letter to Kitamura, aka Taiga's personal pride.

[aliasxn]

I'm trying my best to watch this series because I really love Rie Kugimiya, but good Lord... Taiga is just a despicable human being, she completely takes my enjoyment out of this show... The guy does everything for her and she can’t even bring herself to be polite. And I thought Louise was annoying... I know she will hook up with Ryuuji in the end because it is their faces on the cover, but I hope that at some point in the story he will just tell her to fuck off and give her the cold treatment for 3 or 4 episodes.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by aliasxn

I'm trying my best to watch this series because I really love Rie Kugimiya, but good Lord... Taiga is just a despicable human being, she completely takes my enjoyment out of this show... The guy does everything for her and she can’t even bring herself to be polite. And I thought Louise was annoying... I know she will hook up with Ryuuji in the end because it is their faces on the cover, but I hope that at some point in the story he will just tell her to fuck off and give her the cold treatment for 3 or 4 episodes.

Huh? I didn't think I'd hear THIS kind of talk at this point in the show. Why would you say such a thing if you watched ep 11? As a matter of fact, nothing you've said has anything to do with ep 11, you should have posted that in the "generic discussion thread".

[aliasxn]

I just thought that after 11 episodes she would have stopped acting like she was raised by wild bears.

[KeitaroNagato]

This was shocking to see, did she got excited because she wanted a Haunted House....

That was funny, specially Yuusake telling her to take it easy because her body couldn't handle the stress.

Just because she wanted a Haunted house... Gross though... ewwww!!!!





Poor Yuusaku, he really looks concern

It is because she wanted a Haunted House for the culture festive at the school :P

[Vexx]

Good lord, did no one ragging on Taiga watch the last 30 seconds of ep 11? She's basically throwing herself into the place she least wants to be for Ryuuji's sake.

[Nukerjsr]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Good lord, did no one ragging on Taiga watch the last 30 seconds of ep 11? She's basically throwing herself into the place she least wants to be for Ryuuji's sake.

That ending scene is in question due to the fact that she doubts herself. She's at that level of hatred with her father that she can't even stand to be around him. We won't really know how she handles the changes until the future episodes.

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

She talks of being a diet warrior and ghosts and has made a scene in class before...and suddenly now she doesn't want to say anything weird?

[Kaoru Chujo]

Taiga is a wonderful character. That violence and disagreeableness is all at a very shallow level, it seems to me. You can tell from some of her real interactions with people -- Ryuuji and Minori, in particular -- that she is a good person inside, just cursed with a temper and insecure.

Personally, it's Kugimiya-san's previous tsundere roles that I had to give up on. This is the first one that seems like a real person to me, with more than just tsuntsun, followed by a blink of dere, and then more of the same tsuntsun as before. I'm feeling a lot more development here. I'm not a big tsundere fan, but I like this incarnation.

Her line atashi no ho ga kawaiisou yo "I'm the one you should feel sorry for" was beautifully delivered by Kugimiya. And that last scene in this episode was great, now that I watch it again. "He didn't leave me, I left him" was well delivered, too, followed by Ryuuji's sudden realization that he was imposing his own situation on hers. That shift raises this show in my opinion. Taiga's palm to the mouth was a brilliant move, wherever it originates (print or screen). Her decision to do what Ryuuji said was right shows just how deeply she trusts him and actually relies on his judgment.

I thought that Minori found the prospect of a haunted house nosebleed-inducing because she was imagining going through it with Kitamura.

The only thing about Taiga's relationship with her father that keeps bothering me is why does she think of him as such trash and call him a stalker. Des she feel he is getting too intimate, in a wrong way? Or does she hate him for something to do with her mother? Have I missed something in a previous episiode?

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by satuross

@stormy
the point is, the animation and the novel world (and the manga world, and the light novel world, and the bT world) =/= real world.

even if taiga beats up ryuji to a pulp (literally) in any of the LHS (left hand side) , it would still be have no correlation with relationships in the real world. Afterall, no one in the real world breaks into a house and try to kill their class mates just because of a simple bag....right?....right..?.......right...??........ .....................well okay, not in malaysia/uk.

I always think about violence occured in an anime and the equivalence that can happen in the real world.

For example the part where Taiga try to hit Ryuuji with a wooden sword so he will forget everything, in real life it will be likely for her to scare him off so he have to shut up about that incident (rather actually kill him or put him in coma).

Or when Ryuuji throw ball into Taiga face, she will not be as bad as unconscious, but was only too shocked to react (stunned, that is).

A flying kick on the head (she can't jump that high) will possibly a real hard slap on the top of Ryuuji head. But her "father-greeting kick" probably the same and as hurt as in real world.....

PS: If you are unlucky, you can die with a violent push, so i still fear the fate of those who ended up with Taiga, honestly (low chance+frequently = high chance -_-' )