AnimeSuki Forums

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 10:29

But canon has made her less. She needed an operation extender with multiple katanas just to hold them down.

I'm-here-present · 2014-06-02, 10:45

Will she was up against an IS, but what she did was already awesome.

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 11:11

like I said, it's still less than the OPness she was implied to have. At least for me.

Tempest35 · 2014-06-02, 11:19

Yes it was awesome but it wasn't the level of OPness that we were expecting from the Queen of Blades. I for one was waiting for her to carve up that team of enemy IS using some ultra high vibration blades, leaving the pilots stranded in their suits or even killing them in it. This is what I was expecting from Chifuyu Orimura - the strongest #1 ever. Yeah kinda like Teresa of the Faint Smile.

ZeroXSEED · 2014-06-02, 17:59

Except if Chifuyu can do that then having I.S. would be superfluous, if Chifuyu can do that everyone has potential to become almost as strong as I.S. or stronger, there's no need for I.S. in the long run.

Which mean it's less Infinite Stratos and More like Dragonball Z 2.0

The same debate applies pretty much to any 'alternative machine' story out there.

Tempest35 · 2014-06-02, 18:21

Which makes the fact that she must feel that she needs her IS in order to fight the 'last boss' should tell something.

Oh wait...what if...Tabane is striving to make Ichika and Houki the perfect battle couple - to use AGAINST Chifuyu.

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 20:04

You're missing the point zero. Think about it. If she doesn't need an IS to deal with Spec Ops mooks that any IS representative worth their salt can wipe the floor with in CQC, then what does it mean when she DOES need her IS? Are these mooks really on her level? Was that really all it took to shoot down hundreds of ballistic missiles and shame the world's collective military in direct combat? I don't know about you but I'm left extremely disappointed.

StratoSpear · 2014-06-02, 20:31

Dare I ask what we're debating about?

ZeroXSEED · 2014-06-02, 20:32

@ Demi
Maybe there's that, maybe there's more. It's all about personal opinion and taste, and it's the world of fanfic, it's okay to have different argument

I'm using real feat and what could be extrapolated from it, assuming 100% accuracy, VT system gave us what could Chifuyu do in Mondro Grosso 1, which is underwhelming

Except she still have room to grow... just like the younger cast. 24 years old Chifuyu are far, far stronger than she was in WK incident and Mondo Grosso 1

Can Chifuyu wipe out Ichika & co or entire regime of golems or PT mooks with an I.S.? That's not a question.

Soloing multiple I.S. while still chained to pesky meatbag of a human body? Now that's illogical.

@ Stratos
We're debating about whether Chifuyu's feat in V8 was good enough

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 20:52

From what I understand. Chifuyu won Mondo grosso I and would have dominated Mondo Grosso II. This tells me one thing. No one in the tournament was a match. Mondo Grosso isn't a very good measuring stick for her power level. As for Chifuyu beating IS with none but an Uchigane katana, let me refer back to Schwarzer Regen fiasco where she blocked Laura with NOTHING BUT AN UCHIGANE KATANA

The VT system likely copies Chifuyu's techniques but I don't think it copies the quality of them, per se. A flawed counterfeit so to speak.

ZeroXSEED · 2014-06-02, 20:53

That's fine as well, I'm just trying to avoid escalation too much, so there's no one left behind in power levels.

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 20:58

There is no escalation. Chifuyu was never the subject to increase in power levels. She is the objective. She is the end horizon. You put her too close then any power-up that would exceed her would be the equivalent of a steaming pile of cow excrement.

ZeroXSEED · 2014-06-02, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

There is no escalation. Chifuyu was never the subject to increase in power levels. She is the objective. She is the end horizon. You put her too close then any power-up that would exceed her would be the equivalent of a steaming pile of cow excrement.

I... don't even

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 21:17

Chifuyu symbolizes the end game Zero. If you make her too similar to the starters then what does that tell you? For God's sakes she was pretty much heavily injured, about as much as she dished out by the end of the battle against mooks. That's our endgame? That's the champ? No IS sure, but even those without IS have ways of fighting right? Hell look back to gundam and we actually see MS get taken down by soldiers ON FOOT.

Fireminer · 2014-06-02, 21:35

Quote:

"Life is as empty as this bottle." Glass shattered as it met the ground.

"Then what are you fighting for?"

"Vodka. And kid, one more thing if you want to live."

"What?"

"Never add jet fuel to Vodka, unless you want to die in sleep."

"... Then what am I drinking?"

"One part fuel, five part alcohol. Not that they are different much."

People does add fuel to alcohol, and vice versa, etanol to gasoline.

ZeroXSEED · 2014-06-02, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Chifuyu symbolizes the end game Zero. If you make her too similar to the starters then what does that tell you? For God's sakes she was pretty much heavily injured, about as much as she dished out by the end of the battle against mooks. That's our endgame? That's the champ? No IS sure, but even those without IS have ways of fighting right? Hell look back to gundam and we actually see MS get taken down by soldiers ON FOOT.

The problem here, if I may add: people keep treating I.S. as conventional weapon and not special snowflake of piece of art, only 467 exist and each one can annihilate entire military fleet. Look, the principle is simple: either you keep I.S. as actual threat, or remove them entirely. Metal gears, cyborg, or even TSF from muvluv and gundams has been proposed as 'counter' to I.S. Those people are completely missing the point.

Either I.S. exist as king of battlefield, or they fell into obscurity.

You propose a completely normal (if extremely rare breed) human to take I.S. by the dozen, which, I repeat again, is reusable tactical weapon with unlimited logistic.

Chifuyu is the end of horizon BECAUSE no human aside of Tabane would be able to fight I.S. to a stand still on foot, no one. I repeat: NO ONE

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 21:54

And yet when we reach this endgame where someone can do this it's still falls under the category of underwhelming.

Beyond Madoka walking around in an American base with soldiers firing on her without the proper equipment(IS class) there has been nothing...

Which reminds me. Didn't Natasha fairs actually hold Madoka down a few minutes with nothing but a beam weapon based on Silver Gospel? Does that indicate she can do what Chifuyu and Tabane did? I remember she only had the beam weapon and not even an operation extender. Does the feat put her above Chifuyu but below Tabane? Ofcourse that is assuming Madoka in Silent Zephyrs can match and defeat a dozen or so mooks in IS.

ZeroXSEED · 2014-06-02, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

And yet when we reach this endgame where someone can do this it's still falls under the category of underwhelming.

I understand your and Tempest' feeling, honestly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Beyond Madoka walking around in an American base with soldiers firing on her without the proper equipment(IS class) there has been nothing...

Madoka literally cakewalk inside the base as human infantry desperately hold against her with peashooter on their hold. In the novel, she's using I.S. From the get go, and had to run as soon as she had to fight other I.S.

The anime made her feat more absurd than logically possible, by sending 4 Raphael piloted by special force. I won't accept this one as canon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Which reminds me. Didn't Natasha fairs actually hold Madoka down a few minutes with nothing but a beam weapon based on Silver Gospel? Does that indicate she can do what Chifuyu and Tabane did? I remember she only had the beam weapon and not even an operation extender. Does the feat put her above Chifuyu but below Tabane? Ofcourse that is assuming Madoka in Silent Zephyrs can match and defeat a dozen or so mooks in IS.

Natasha? She's a minor inconvenience, Madoka literally toyed with her as soon as Madoka reached her position. Mind, Natasha's Silver bell is STRONGER than Gospel's own weapon, and she still treated as minor pest.

It might be disappointing, but Chifuyu's feat (and of course, Tabane's) was by any means no joke when you look on what everyone else can do.

demino_hellsin · 2014-06-02, 22:02

Really? A minor pest wouldn't exactly warrant need to eliminate. I remember Madoka was annoyed mostly because there was actually someone there that COULD damage her IS and the fact said person wasn't going down with a flick of the wrist.

I also remember that she ran because Iris Calling was in an IS and Natasha Fairs had an IS class weapon in her hand and the necessary combat skills to compliment Iris Calling's CQC with precision cover fire.

Let me just say thank you for reminding me of this piece of awesomeness.

EDIT: Plus I just remembered that Madoka wanted to fight but was ordered to retreat by PT... go figure, running is more or less their MO.

ZeroXSEED · 2014-06-02, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Really? A minor pest wouldn't exactly warrant need to eliminate. I remember Madoka was annoyed mostly because there was actually someone there that COULD damage her IS and the fact said person wasn't going down with a flick of the wrist.

There's that, Madoka was pissed because Natasha just won't surrender like animal.

It's less Natasha's skill and more about her mental tenacity (and the fact that she has actually working weapon instead of harmless assault rifle)

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

I also remember that she ran because Iris Calling was in an IS and Natasha Fairs had an IS class weapon in her hand and the necessary combat skills to compliment Iris Calling's CQC with precision cover fire.

No, it's because there's literally no room to maneuver, it was base corridor for crying out loud.

And remember Madoka's mission: retrieval operation. Madoka had to do it quickly or she will be surrounded by multiple I.S. Arrival of Iris means it'll take time until she can grab Gospel and run, enemy's I.S. presence ensure the failure of her mission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Let me just say thank you for reminding me of this piece of awesomeness.

Sure thing

2014-06-02, 11:19	Link #53184
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Yes it was awesome but it wasn't the level of OPness that we were expecting from the Queen of Blades. I for one was waiting for her to carve up that team of enemy IS using some ultra high vibration blades, leaving the pilots stranded in their suits or even killing them in it. This is what I was expecting from Chifuyu Orimura - the strongest #1 ever. Yeah kinda like Teresa of the Faint Smile. __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2014-06-02, 17:59	Link #53185
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Except if Chifuyu can do that then having I.S. would be superfluous, if Chifuyu can do that everyone has potential to become almost as strong as I.S. or stronger, there's no need for I.S. in the long run. Which mean it's less Infinite Stratos and More like Dragonball Z 2.0 The same debate applies pretty much to any 'alternative machine' story out there. __________________

2014-06-02, 18:21	Link #53186
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Which makes the fact that she must feel that she needs her IS in order to fight the 'last boss' should tell something. Oh wait...what if...Tabane is striving to make Ichika and Houki the perfect battle couple - to use AGAINST Chifuyu. __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2014-06-02, 20:31	Link #53188
StratoSpear Titans Test Team Pilot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Elysium	Dare I ask what we're debating about? __________________ "You cannot be bad at watching a movie. You cannot be bad at listening to an album. ...But you can be bad at playing a videogame, and the game will punish you and deny you access to the rest of the videogame."

2014-06-02, 20:32	Link #53189
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	@ Demi Maybe there's that, maybe there's more. It's all about personal opinion and taste, and it's the world of fanfic, it's okay to have different argument I'm using real feat and what could be extrapolated from it, assuming 100% accuracy, VT system gave us what could Chifuyu do in Mondro Grosso 1, which is underwhelming Except she still have room to grow... just like the younger cast. 24 years old Chifuyu are far, far stronger than she was in WK incident and Mondo Grosso 1 Can Chifuyu wipe out Ichika & co or entire regime of golems or PT mooks with an I.S.? That's not a question. Soloing multiple I.S. while still chained to pesky meatbag of a human body? Now that's illogical. @ Stratos We're debating about whether Chifuyu's feat in V8 was good enough __________________

2014-06-02, 10:29	Link #53181
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	But canon has made her less. She needed an operation extender with multiple katanas just to hold them down.

2014-06-02, 10:45	Link #53182
I'm-here-present Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Unknown location	Will she was up against an IS, but what she did was already awesome.

2014-06-02, 11:11	Link #53183
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	like I said, it's still less than the OPness she was implied to have. At least for me.

2014-06-02, 20:04	Link #53187
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	You're missing the point zero. Think about it. If she doesn't need an IS to deal with Spec Ops mooks that any IS representative worth their salt can wipe the floor with in CQC, then what does it mean when she DOES need her IS? Are these mooks really on her level? Was that really all it took to shoot down hundreds of ballistic missiles and shame the world's collective military in direct combat? I don't know about you but I'm left extremely disappointed.

2014-06-02, 20:52	Link #53190
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	From what I understand. Chifuyu won Mondo grosso I and would have dominated Mondo Grosso II. This tells me one thing. No one in the tournament was a match. Mondo Grosso isn't a very good measuring stick for her power level. As for Chifuyu beating IS with none but an Uchigane katana, let me refer back to Schwarzer Regen fiasco where she blocked Laura with NOTHING BUT AN UCHIGANE KATANA The VT system likely copies Chifuyu's techniques but I don't think it copies the quality of them, per se. A flawed counterfeit so to speak.

2014-06-02, 20:53	Link #53191
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	That's fine as well, I'm just trying to avoid escalation too much, so there's no one left behind in power levels. __________________

2014-06-02, 20:58	Link #53192
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	There is no escalation. Chifuyu was never the subject to increase in power levels. She is the objective. She is the end horizon. You put her too close then any power-up that would exceed her would be the equivalent of a steaming pile of cow excrement.

2014-06-02, 21:17	Link #53194
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Chifuyu symbolizes the end game Zero. If you make her too similar to the starters then what does that tell you? For God's sakes she was pretty much heavily injured, about as much as she dished out by the end of the battle against mooks. That's our endgame? That's the champ? No IS sure, but even those without IS have ways of fighting right? Hell look back to gundam and we actually see MS get taken down by soldiers ON FOOT.

2014-06-02, 21:54	Link #53197
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	And yet when we reach this endgame where someone can do this it's still falls under the category of underwhelming. Beyond Madoka walking around in an American base with soldiers firing on her without the proper equipment(IS class) there has been nothing... Which reminds me. Didn't Natasha fairs actually hold Madoka down a few minutes with nothing but a beam weapon based on Silver Gospel? Does that indicate she can do what Chifuyu and Tabane did? I remember she only had the beam weapon and not even an operation extender. Does the feat put her above Chifuyu but below Tabane? Ofcourse that is assuming Madoka in Silent Zephyrs can match and defeat a dozen or so mooks in IS.

2014-06-02, 22:02	Link #53199
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Really? A minor pest wouldn't exactly warrant need to eliminate. I remember Madoka was annoyed mostly because there was actually someone there that COULD damage her IS and the fact said person wasn't going down with a flick of the wrist. I also remember that she ran because Iris Calling was in an IS and Natasha Fairs had an IS class weapon in her hand and the necessary combat skills to compliment Iris Calling's CQC with precision cover fire. Let me just say thank you for reminding me of this piece of awesomeness. EDIT: Plus I just remembered that Madoka wanted to fight but was ordered to retreat by PT... go figure, running is more or less their MO.