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Old 2020-08-20, 21:59   Link #841
Mad Pierrot
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So Goku was always thinking about redeeming his enemies in the past?
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Old 2020-08-20, 22:51   Link #842
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot View Post
So Goku was always thinking about redeeming his enemies in the past?
No, as he said, that's giving him too much credit.

He just thought that it'd be fine if they turned good, and if not, it's still good for him since he gets to fight stronger enemies. Either way, Goku gets more out of it if he leaves his opponents alive whether they become his allies or not.
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Old 2020-08-20, 23:17   Link #843
GDB
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Oh boy, more BS Ultra Instinct. Yes Meerus, if Goku masters UI no one will be able to beat him. That's why so many of us never want to see it again. It's boring. There's not a single interesting aspect of it.

And triggering UI with anger now? So we're going from an absence of intense emotion and letting the body do its thing to... Super Saiyan part 2?

I can't believe how much this arc fell off after starting so freaking strong.
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Old 2020-08-21, 17:43   Link #844
DragonOsman
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@GDB: I think the trigger for UI is more taking the shock from somebody's death and staying calm. Goku may be angry deep inside but keeping it contained and acting calm.
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Old 2020-08-22, 08:46   Link #845
Shadow5YA
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@GDB: I think the trigger for UI is more taking the shock from somebody's death and staying calm. Goku may be angry deep inside but keeping it contained and acting calm.
That's still a silly excuse regardless, because he didn't need someone's death to motivate him in the Tournament of Power. How is this any different from Android 16's sacrifice to turn Gohan to Super Saiyan 2?
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Old 2020-08-22, 15:23   Link #846
justavisitor
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
That's still a silly excuse regardless, because he didn't need someone's death to motivate him in the Tournament of Power. How is this any different from Android 16's sacrifice to turn Gohan to Super Saiyan 2?
I don't remember that well, but I believe in the anime, goku doesn't know how to enter sign and the mastered state, while in the manga, goku kinds of knowing what feeling he needs to be in so he can enter UI sign but he still doesn't know how to master it.

Now, it seems like goku needs to experience the shock to enter the mastered state, and since he is already so close to UI, from now on he can remember that shock/feeling in order to enter the mastered UI state easier.

It's still BS but I think that is what the author tries to suggest
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Old 2020-08-22, 20:18   Link #847
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I don't remember that well, but I believe in the anime, goku doesn't know how to enter sign and the mastered state, while in the manga, goku kinds of knowing what feeling he needs to be in so he can enter UI sign but he still doesn't know how to master it.

Now, it seems like goku needs to experience the shock to enter the mastered state, and since he is already so close to UI, from now on he can remember that shock/feeling in order to enter the mastered UI state easier.

It's still BS but I think that is what the author tries to suggest
In the anime, Goku enters UI sign in a bout of desperation, after all of his options had been exhausted, both against Jiren and Kefla. Perfecting UI happened after he was already in UI sign against Jiren and was only ramping up more.

In this manga, Goku first enters UI sign after watching Roshi's example against Jiren, finally realizing that brute strength isn't the only way to go. While Roshi certainly did drop out, the focus wasn't on his loss, but his technique. He then enters the perfected form after warming up from UI sign.

In either case, Goku never perfected UI from the emotional shock of losing an ally, and this chapter made it clear that they wanted Merus' death to be emotional for Goku.
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Old 2020-08-22, 20:34   Link #848
justavisitor
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In either case, Goku never perfected UI from the emotional shock of losing an ally.
Using soccer as an example (I don't play soccer so it could be entirely wrong )...if you don't have any skill, you can still bend the ball like 1 in 100 times (like Goku in the tournament of power)..now if you have some skill (goku now is more familiar with UI) you might need to remember a trick so you can bend the ball easier (So, now goku needs to find calmness from the emotional shock of losing an ally for him to tap into UI)

From now on, goku needs to remember that feeling until he can tap into UI naturally.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 2020-08-23, 18:14   Link #849
DragonOsman
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Yeah, I think Justavisitor has the right idea here. Of course we could be completely wrong about this, but for now I think this is how it is.
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Old 2020-08-24, 06:02   Link #850
GDB
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It'll still ring hollow, since he accessed it the first time from the "calmness" after losing A17 (as far as he knew). Doing it again is just stupid.
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Old 2020-08-24, 12:53   Link #851
Tong
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Is it just me or was the later part of this chapter a homage to 16 and Gohan?
Anyways, it seems like the arc is going to end soon. Moro was too absurd power-level wise and MUI will be more than enough for this weakened version.
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Old 2020-08-24, 15:19   Link #852
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Using soccer as an example (I don't play soccer so it could be entirely wrong )...if you don't have any skill, you can still bend the ball like 1 in 100 times (like Goku in the tournament of power)..now if you have some skill (goku now is more familiar with UI) you might need to remember a trick so you can bend the ball easier (So, now goku needs to find calmness from the emotional shock of losing an ally for him to tap into UI)

From now on, goku needs to remember that feeling until he can tap into UI naturally.

Just my 2 cents
Using that example, it's more like as if you kicked the ball incorrectly into your own goal.

Will that sensation teach you how to kick the ball in the exact opposite direction? Not really...
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Old 2020-08-24, 17:15   Link #853
justavisitor
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Using that example, it's more like as if you kicked the ball incorrectly into your own goal.

Will that sensation teach you how to kick the ball in the exact opposite direction? Not really...
well, I check the previous chapter and in chapter 52, page 41? Merus said you need to control and stop the thought of going emotional in order to tap into UI....you can imagine Merus keeps lecturing Goku in those 6 months. So Merus believes that Goku can do it and this is like the ultimate test

Imo, that's why Vegeta can't do it...his only good point is he works hard, but he is a hothead
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2020-08-25, 15:16   Link #854
Kanon
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It'll still ring hollow, since he accessed it the first time from the "calmness" after losing A17 (as far as he knew). Doing it again is just stupid.
That does sound stupid. It'd be like him being unable to access Super Saiyan after he turned into one on Namek and needing Piccolo (or someone else) to die to trigger the form again. Goku is a battle genius, after being told about the "trick" and experiencing it once, he should have been able to master the form.

I've always had a problem with the way Goku attained UI Sign (bro, you just gotta close your eyes and remember what all your masters have been telling you for decades) and then later MUI in the manga and this is only making it worse.
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Old 2020-09-18, 10:28   Link #855
Galaxian
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...And then Goku wins. There, that's essentially this chapter.

Can't even say that I hop MUI runs out next chapter because then it's just a repeat of the ToP ending.
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Old 2020-09-18, 11:27   Link #856
SidVicious
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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
...And then Goku wins. There, that's essentially this chapter.

Can't even say that I hop MUI runs out next chapter because then it's just a repeat of the ToP ending.
Just a gues but I think he will let his guard down again and Beerus and Whis will have to intervene.
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Old 2020-09-18, 12:11   Link #857
Kanon
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Krillin and his bag of senzus still haven't come into play, and Goku is probably about to do something stupid. Get ready for five more chapters of fighting.
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Old 2020-09-18, 12:40   Link #858
Shadow5YA
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Just a gues but I think he will let his guard down again and Beerus and Whis will have to intervene.
He already did. Jaco said the Galactic Patrol wanted Moro dead.

Goku said he's quitting the Galactic Patrol, meaning he is refusing to kill Moro.

This is Perfect Cell all over again.
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Old 2020-09-18, 14:42   Link #859
Tong
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inb4 Moro blows up the planet like Frieza or tries to like Cell.
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Old 2020-09-18, 16:17   Link #860
Wandering Soul
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Well Goku is doing something stupid. Bets on how Moro is going to take advantage of this?
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