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Old 2020-09-20, 02:29   Link #341
Rinvelt
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For everyone's question about how Kanon died, it's pretty simple: How did Anos die? He let himself. Same here.

Basically, thanks to his seven sources, Kanon has an easier time using the resuscitation spell when killed. And that's it. So basically, as long as he doesn't use the resuscitation spell he dies. Then he just needs to use the same spell as Anos to get reincarnated later.
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Old 2020-09-20, 02:41   Link #342
frubam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
Looks like it since that's what happened. Note that Anos also couldn't have just acted on his own since he's with a teacher and classmates/injured 3rd year students, and he probably didn't have a good enough plan at that moment to save Eleonor. He probably also thought getting the sword back is more important or is needed to resolve Eleonor's situation. This is all speculation though since all we know for sure was that there was a timeskip of a few days.
Isn't it possible he saved Eleanor off-screen? I mean, this is Anos we're talking about here; there's no way he would go back on his word and and abandon her, even if there were other things that took priority(the episode with the teacher attacking his mother is a simple example). She'll probably pop up next episode in some kind of hidden plan he already established with her that'll help stop the human army(of Zeshias).
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Old 2020-09-20, 02:44   Link #343
shmaster
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It seems no one has notice something very important.
Avos this episode has a different mask from the person in ep.8
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Old 2020-09-20, 03:02   Link #344
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
Looks like it since that's what happened. Note that Anos also couldn't have just acted on his own since he's with a teacher and classmates/injured 3rd year students, and he probably didn't have a good enough plan at that moment to save Eleonor. He probably also thought getting the sword back is more important or is needed to resolve Eleonor's situation. This is all speculation though since all we know for sure was that there was a timeskip of a few days.
Anos was just one step away from saving Eleonore in that scene. Also, if he indeed saved Eleanor right there and then, she can help expose & explain everything to the human masses. Considering that she was the source of Diego's existence and other clones, she can easily demonstrate her powers in front of everybody to expose the wretched Hero Academy & the malicious Asc magic. Anos can easily bind Diego & co while Eleanore does a "press conference" or "national address" if need be like what Diego did this episode .

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Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
It seems no one has notice something very important.
Avos this episode has a different mask from the person in ep.8
There's always a possibility that Ley is not the real Avos of legend if the writer wants to go that way.
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Old 2020-09-20, 04:10   Link #345
frodonk
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Anos was just one step away from saving Eleonore in that scene. Also, if he indeed saved Eleanor right there and then, she can help expose & explain everything to the human masses. Considering that she was the source of Diego's existence and other clones, she can easily demonstrate her powers in front of everybody to expose the wretched Hero Academy & the malicious Asc magic. Anos can easily bind Diego & co while Eleanore does a "press conference" or "national address" if need be like what Diego did this episode
1. Eleonore is just another student based on what we've seen, Diego is a teacher and the entire Jerga Kanon class is loyal to him, who do you think everyone would trust? A single student's word isn't enough when you got an entire class of heroes and Kanon "reincarnations" against you. Heck the real question here is why did Eleonore even pose as a 3rd year student the first time she met Anos when she's an immortal walking human clone factory whose house is under a lake.

2. Jerga modified the Asc spell in such a way that anyone who uses it becomes influenced with his hatred of demons, so much that even the fan union girls became brainwashed when Anos used the spell against human students. This is a problem that can't be solved easily or else Anos would've gotten a magic sword or whatever and slashed the problem away.

3. Diego will die if Eleonore is killed, so the easiest way is to just kill Eleonore and be done with it, but Anos doesn't want to kill Eleonore or the clones, that's why he said he wanted to "make them happy all at once" and killing their mother wouldn't make them happy now will it? Of course this is assuming that the Asc problem will go away if Diego is killed, which may not even be the case.

4. Even if everything you said happened it still wouldn't eliminate the root cause of this problem, which is the hatred against demons. Thousands of years of heroes hating demons because they think "Kanon" is whispering to them can't be erased by a press conference exposing the hero academy because every human knows that heroes are the good guys and demons are bad.

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Isn't it possible he saved Eleanor off-screen? I mean, this is Anos we're talking about here; there's no way he would go back on his word and and abandon her, even if there were other things that took priority(the episode with the teacher attacking his mother is a simple example). She'll probably pop up next episode in some kind of hidden plan he already established with her that'll help stop the human army(of Zeshias).
All of this is part of Anos' plan to save Eleonor. He isn't abandoning her, he's preventing Diego from moving while confronting Avos for now. Also it would be kinda lame if Anos resolved Eleonor's arc off-screen

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Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
It seems no one has notice something very important.
Avos this episode has a different mask from the person in ep.8
maybe he has a mask collection?
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Old 2020-09-20, 04:48   Link #346
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
1. Eleonore is just another student based on what we've seen, Diego is a teacher and the entire Jerga Kanon class is loyal to him, who do you think everyone would trust? A single student's word isn't enough when you got an entire class of heroes and Kanon "reincarnations" against you. Heck the real question here is why did Eleonore even pose as a 3rd year student the first time she met Anos when she's an immortal walking human clone factory whose house is under a lake.

2. Jerga modified the Asc spell in such a way that anyone who uses it becomes influenced with his hatred of demons, so much that even the fan union girls became brainwashed when Anos used the spell against human students. This is a problem that can't be solved easily or else Anos would've gotten a magic sword or whatever and slashed the problem away.

3. Diego will die if Eleonore is killed, so the easiest way is to just kill Eleonore and be done with it, but Anos doesn't want to kill Eleonore or the clones, that's why he said he wanted to "make them happy all at once" and killing their mother wouldn't make them happy now will it? Of course this is assuming that the Asc problem will go away if Diego is killed, which may not even be the case.

4. Even if everything you said happened it still wouldn't eliminate the root cause of this problem, which is the hatred against demons. Thousands of years of heroes hating demons because they think "Kanon" is whispering to them can't be erased by a press conference exposing the hero academy because every human knows that heroes are the good guys and demons are bad.
  1. That's why I want Eleonore to demonstrate her powers before the masses while Anos can detain the Hero Academy higher-ups (surely he's capable of that). And she can also show how many Zeshia clones they have to prove her point. Evidence should go a long way against people in power. Even if it won't sway the humans immediately, at least the truth is revealed out there and it can drive people to think. Unless you're saying that that the entire human population have been poisoned by hatred by Asc which, if we see from the interaction between the demon students with the human merchants during the festival, doesn't seem like it.
  2. After Eleonore's reveal, some non-haters will at least think twice before using Asc.
  3. Then Anos can just threat Diego that he will kill Eleonore if necessary (while sheltering her somewhere save). From the previous encounter, the dude is still obviously afraid of dying.
  4. You can never get rid of hatred unless you do a mass hypnosis. The main goal of Eleonore's national address in my scenario is to reveal the truth during a critical time. If Anos did it, it would've distabilize the human government enough to at least reduce the number of forces that they can send to battle Dilhade forces. And since the Zeshia clones are proof of their lies, their use in war will show the people that Eleonore is not lying.

Again, the point is to reveal the truth and plant & spark criticism into the humans' minds about their corrupt government. Those seed of doubts will grow like a snowball and can benefit Anos in the long run.
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Old 2020-09-20, 06:47   Link #347
Huh...?
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I suppose the main situation and focus needs to go to Kanon right now. Just what is he trying to do? Heck, just how did he even die? Getting stabbed in the back is bad for most people, but he has several sources and is the most powerful human alive. Would that really just end him?
Wasn't it already mentioned in the episode (by Eleonore) that maybe because Kanon already gave up on Humans, he decided not to immediately revive himself like always and did it later.
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WTH even was that shit with his mom?
Anos did mention that those stuff that happened with his Mom, or some of the other stuff weren't actually orchestrated by Kanon. They just happened because of the situation.
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Old 2020-09-20, 07:29   Link #348
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Huh...? View Post
Wasn't it already mentioned in the episode (by Eleonore) that maybe because Kanon already gave up on Humans, he decided not to immediately revive himself like always and did it later.
That was just their interpretation of the fact they couldn't find Kanon for 2000 years. The question is what actually happened.

Quote:
Anos did mention that those stuff that happened with his Mom, or some of the other stuff weren't actually orchestrated by Kanon. They just happened because of the situation.
I'm just saying. That shit happening to just plain Rey who only has his swordsmanship? Sure, why not. That shit happening to the reincarnated Kanon who's even better than Anos at source magic and god knows what else that allowed him to stand toe to toe against that monster?
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Old 2020-09-20, 07:34   Link #349
stray
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Speaking of Eleanor I kind of expected Anos to pull something like what he did with Emilia for Eleanor, respawn her as something essentially harmless.
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Old 2020-09-20, 10:10   Link #350
frodonk
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
  1. That's why I want Eleonore to demonstrate her powers before the masses while Anos can detain the Hero Academy higher-ups (surely he's capable of that). And she can also show how many Zeshia clones they have to prove her point. Evidence should go a long way against people in power. Even if it won't sway the humans immediately, at least the truth is revealed out there and it can drive people to think. Unless you're saying that that the entire human population have been poisoned by hatred by Asc which, if we see from the interaction between the demon students with the human merchants during the festival, doesn't seem like it.
  2. After Eleonore's reveal, some non-haters will at least think twice before using Asc.
  3. Then Anos can just threat Diego that he will kill Eleonore if necessary (while sheltering her somewhere save). From the previous encounter, the dude is still obviously afraid of dying.
  4. You can never get rid of hatred unless you do a mass hypnosis. The main goal of Eleonore's national address in my scenario is to reveal the truth during a critical time. If Anos did it, it would've distabilize the human government enough to at least reduce the number of forces that they can send to battle Dilhade forces. And since the Zeshia clones are proof of their lies, their use in war will show the people that Eleonore is not lying.

Again, the point is to reveal the truth and plant & spark criticism into the humans' minds about their corrupt government. Those seed of doubts will grow like a snowball and can benefit Anos in the long run.
1. The only reason Anos and the other students can move around during the festival was that they look like regular humans. I would've imagined that the likes of Necron would've caused alarm if he were to walk around the human city. Even Milheis had to turn into an owl, though it was for info gathering.

2. As far as I know the highest authority in that academy is Diego, there are no other higher-ups to detain. We don't even know if the humans have an emperor, but I assume they have somebody like that.

3. Why would the humans not use Asc when it's humanity's signature spell? The demons have Gyze, humans have Asc. Also humans are using Asc against demons anyway, why should they stop just because there's a voice telling them what they already know, that demons are bad? They even thought it was their hero Kanon's voice that's talking to them.

4. Relocating Eleonor "somewhere safe" doesn't accomplish anything, it doesn't resolve her problem, Anos needed to do something about Diego and resolve the asc problem while not killing Eleonor and the clones, which will happen next episode.

5. Causing chaos among the human population isn't what Anos wants, he even had to send out his followers to prevent the two sides from starting the war. Anos doesn't even care about what the humans think of him and he doesn't care if the hero academy is corrupt. If his goal is to attack humans in the first place he would've done it all by himself. All he wants is to help Eleonor and the clones, but he had to deal with Avos first.

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Speaking of Eleanor I kind of expected Anos to pull something like what he did with Emilia for Eleanor, respawn her as something essentially harmless.
this could still happen since there's 1 episode left
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Old 2020-09-20, 11:26   Link #351
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Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
Looks like it since that's what happened. Note that Anos also couldn't have just acted on his own since he's with a teacher and classmates/injured 3rd year students, and he probably didn't have a good enough plan at that moment to save Eleonor. He probably also thought getting the sword back is more important or is needed to resolve Eleonor's situation. This is all speculation though since all we know for sure was that there was a timeskip of a few days.
I figure if it comes to a fight it will turn out that all the clones have free will now. Which is why they did the time skip to fake us out.

Anos probably had a fairly good idea of what was going on as soon as he knew Kanon was sneaking around and could start setting his own plan up.
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Old 2020-09-20, 12:43   Link #352
shmaster
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm just saying. That shit happening to just plain Rey who only has his swordsmanship? Sure, why not. That shit happening to the reincarnated Kanon who's even better than Anos at source magic and god knows what else that allowed him to stand toe to toe against that monster?
He just got his hax back this episode. How is that any help to the situation that occured 4 episode ago?
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Old 2020-09-20, 13:21   Link #353
4th Dimension
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Wait, what's preventing Anos from freeing Eleonore and obliterating Diego and his forces right there & then when Avos took the holy sword and went away? If he did that, at least he would've neutralized one side of this big conflict.

I feel some real rushing this episode.

Also, damn, those 4 demon generals under Anos are no slouch. They took out the other 3 generals quickly like it's garbage day .
There is quite a bit of acceleration indeed. This adapted something like 9 chapters.

The reason why he didn't bust out Eleanore
Spoiler for info from WN but not from content in future episodes:


Some more differences here.
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Old 2020-09-20, 13:40   Link #354
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
1. The only reason Anos and the other students can move around during the festival was that they look like regular humans. I would've imagined that the likes of Necron would've caused alarm if he were to walk around the human city. Even Milheis had to turn into an owl, though it was for info gathering.
The demon students are clearly wearing the uniform of Demon School. Also, if you say that appearance is one of the major reasons why humans hate demons, you made the show sounds even dumber because the majority of demons that we've seen in this show look very human that it hurts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
2. As far as I know the highest authority in that academy is Diego, there are no other higher-ups to detain. We don't even know if the humans have an emperor, but I assume they have somebody like that.
Then it should've been easier to deal with Diego & the Hero Academy. Like I said: let Eleonore talk to the masses and provide all the evidence.

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Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
3. Why would the humans not use Asc when it's humanity's signature spell? The demons have Gyze, humans have Asc. Also humans are using Asc against demons anyway, why should they stop just because there's a voice telling them what they already know, that demons are bad? They even thought it was their hero Kanon's voice that's talking to them.
After Eleonore reveals the truth in my scenario, at least some humans will be forced to think twice. After all, I presume not all people like being brainwashed by an astronomically-butthurt old man to kill other race, especially in times of peace. Also, the parents of the kids who were about to be used as human-bombs surely won't just blindly be okay with Diego after they learnt the truth. There are just too many social factors that this episode just glossed over or downright not touch at all before the "several days later"-timeskip.

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Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
4. Relocating Eleonor "somewhere safe" doesn't accomplish anything, it doesn't resolve her problem, Anos needed to do something about Diego and resolve the asc problem while not killing Eleonor and the clones, which will happen next episode."
You're talking as if Anos couldn't just ask Melheis to trap Diego in a remote/pocket dimension like he did to Ley & his mom during the tournament . If Diego doesn't die, he will not respawn.

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5. Causing chaos among the human population isn't what Anos wants, he even had to send out his followers to prevent the two sides from starting the war. Anos doesn't even care about what the humans think of him and he doesn't care if the hero academy is corrupt. If his goal is to attack humans in the first place he would've done it all by himself. All he wants is to help Eleonor and the clones, but he had to deal with Avos first.
If Anos truly doesn't care, why did you present the following reason? :
Quote:
Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
"Look! These demon students had just killed our beloved teacher who had warned us again and again that demons are dangerous! They've also used this exchange program to sneak in and take the holy sword! I knew demons can't be trusted!!!"
Are you backpedalling on your own argument?

@4th Dimension: Thanks for the info. Your post is a lot more informative & productive.
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Old 2020-09-20, 14:25   Link #355
4th Dimension
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Re: Revealing the conspiracy:
Spoiler for based on WN content of this episode:
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Old 2020-09-20, 15:08   Link #356
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
He just got his hax back this episode. How is that any help to the situation that occured 4 episode ago?
He got his sword back this ep, that's all. Since, unlike the swordsman, he is good at source magic, like Anos he should have remembered everything the moment he was born. And if he had years as Rey, that should have been enough time to recover all his power (minus whatever was taken up by the Demon Emperors). Or is he only a few months old like Anos and has brainwashed everyone relevant? At this point, who knows? Though they made it seem like his time with his mom was real.
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Old 2020-09-20, 16:08   Link #357
shmaster
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He got his sword back this ep, that's all. Since, unlike the swordsman, he is good at source magic, like Anos he should have remembered everything the moment he was born. And if he had years as Rey, that should have been enough time to recover all his power (minus whatever was taken up by the Demon Emperors). Or is he only a few months old like Anos and has brainwashed everyone relevant? At this point, who knows? Though they made it seem like his time with his mom was real.
Wrong evaluation of his power.
To put it bluntly Kanon was able to do majority of things that he was able to do because he has Evansmana.
Really, there nothing he can do to save his mom at that point.
And even with Evansmana, he can only treat the symptom and not the cause.
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Old 2020-09-20, 20:16   Link #358
Random14
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Boy, they're really really rushing things now. Before they had been going about maybe 1.5 times faster than the text, now they cranked the speed up to at least 5 times faster (this is not an accurate analogy, just an estimate).

I guess they're going for the big war scene to wrap up the series, but it makes for a messy story, while still trying to cram in all the revelations and explaining. At least they kept some of the foreshadowing and now it pays off, like when they covered the modern and original stories of the shell necklace and what really happened to all of Kanon's sources.

Too bad they couldn't have had a second season, or even another six episodes, then they could have adapted things more smoothly. But with Kanon himself now back in play, guess they're going to wrap up this hero academy arc next week then, no matter how rushed it will be.
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Old 2020-09-20, 21:37   Link #359
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
Re: Revealing the conspiracy:
Spoiler for based on WN content of this episode:
Question:
If the Hero Academy is really the core military power of the human realm and Diego sits at the top, what's stopping Anos from just grabbing Diego & threatening him that Eleonore will be killed behind the scene in this anime? I think even Diego will pause when threatened to be completely obliterated with no chance to respawn. With that threat, Anos can at least try to order Diego to reveal every corruption that he knows to the human masses. If Diego confess to the masses, Eleanor can even elaborate. After that, Anos can just easily silent & detain the Hero Academy higher-ups behind the scenes because nobody in the human realm can even put up a fight against him and his demon emperors (so far). So, what gives?
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Old 2020-09-21, 00:39   Link #360
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Question:
If the Hero Academy is really the core military power of the human realm and Diego sits at the top, what's stopping Anos from just grabbing Diego & threatening him that Eleonore will be killed behind the scene in this anime? I think even Diego will pause when threatened to be completely obliterated with no chance to respawn. With that threat, Anos can at least try to order Diego to reveal every corruption that he knows to the human masses. If Diego confess to the masses, Eleanor can even elaborate. After that, Anos can just easily silent & detain the Hero Academy higher-ups behind the scenes because nobody in the human realm can even put up a fight against him and his demon emperors (so far). So, what gives?
Doesn't change a thing. Unless Asc is removed, not a single human is able to believe what they did is wrong.
What you see of Asc so far is just a tip of ice burg of its full effect.
Not to mention Anos isn't 100% sure on what Lay as Avos is going to do at that point.
There is the possibility of things getting worse if Lay attacks while Anos deals with Diego.
On the other hand Anos already know Eleanor is safe at this point, so the logical choice is to have Avos taken care of first.
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