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Old 2020-09-17, 11:48   Link #261
Frontier
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I imagine it's probably so they can do a natural progression into the focus on Tohru and Kyo in the next cour. At least that's what I'd assume.
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Old 2020-09-17, 12:32   Link #262
Uribatake
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Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Something doesn't look right.

*pulls out the manga

Yeah, they skipped a good amount of vol.16, thus made some character transition not very comfortable.
I see they are going to either shuffle the order of events or begin cramming stuff.
Hopefully things won't start getting worse.
The content from chapters 90-93 is too important to be omitted, so I'm confident they just shifted that arc to season 3. This adaptation has been playing around with the chapter ordering from the beginning, so I'm used to it by now. The staff probably figured the end of chapter 97 would make for a stronger stopping point for season 2 than the end of chapter 93.
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Old 2020-09-17, 19:58   Link #263
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Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
I imagine it's probably so they can do a natural progression into the focus on Tohru and Kyo in the next cour. At least that's what I'd assume.
I've lost any sense of optimism about the choices this version is making. So while I hope you're right, I wouldn't say I expect it.
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Old 2020-09-17, 21:36   Link #264
shmaster
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I've lost any sense of optimism about the choices this version is making. So while I hope you're right, I wouldn't say I expect it.
You really should drop your Yuki bias.
While I am totally against the skipping of content in vol.16 (any reduction of Kyoko's screen time is a grave sin), this doesn't fault the quality how Yuki's story arc has been handled.
It was the second most impactful arc to me back in the days, and I'd say the anime did a good job in capturing what this story arc is going to tell.
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Old 2020-09-17, 22:43   Link #265
Frontier
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Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
You really should drop your Yuki bias.
While I am totally against the skipping of content in vol.16 (any reduction of Kyoko's screen time is a grave sin), this doesn't fault the quality how Yuki's story arc has been handled.
It was the second most impactful arc to me back in the days, and I'd say the anime did a good job in capturing what this story arc is going to tell.
Yeah, and I think they're saving Kyoko stuff for the next cour since it'll dovetail more into the last core of the story.
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Old 2020-09-18, 08:59   Link #266
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Just a quick reminder for everyone who's familiar with the manga, be careful when discussing skipped material -- even in spoiler tags. The skipped material could be moved into the next season as suggested above. Please don't spoil the show for the people who are waiting for the anime to tell the story.
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Old 2020-09-21, 01:05   Link #267
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episode 21:

nice, so this is how yuki met Tohru when they were children.
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Old 2020-09-21, 12:02   Link #268
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Final season announced, coming 2021.

https://twitter.com/fruba_PR/status/1308088602476400640
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Old 2020-09-21, 13:03   Link #269
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Sorry Akito, it's a little too late to take seriously that all you don't mean all your insulting and derogatory remarks towards those who are forced to be close to you, but I guess only someone with a really warped personality and perspective could feel that way .

It's the season finale and one last stunning Rin outfit to leave off on! And apparently Haru's the only one Rin is comfortable enough embracing her to where she wouldn't wake up, although she' still insistent she and Haru are through. Be honest with yourself, Rin .

I'm kind of amazed Kyo only showed up in a flashback .

Of course Hanajima would take pride in being an idiot if it meant she doesn't get sick .

Shigure doesn't like Kureno because of how much Akito seems to favor Kureno, especially when Shigure seems to have figured out why, and it probably doesn't help that that illustration of them kissing seems to imply that their relationship wasn't just platonic companionship. Seems like Kureno and Akito's relationship and Shigure figuring out what's going on with the curse has spurred on some of his current actions .

Shigure is a pretty awful person. Is it respectable that he recognizes and admits to it? I guess. But still, he's pretty far from the nicest guy .

So the big revelation of the episode...Kureno is no longer the Rooster (so we will never get to see Rooster Kureno), the curse just suddenly left him and he's been a normal human ever since, with Akito desperate to maintain the illusion that he's still one of the zodiac in order to keep up the appearance that everything is normal. Suddenly Shigure's thoughts about the beginning of the end and his attempts to exacerbate things hold even more weight .

Poor Kureno...he's finally free of the curse, and he's free to be with and embrace the girl he's fallen in love with in Arisa, but his guilt over being free while the other Zodiac have to suffer along with Akito being inconsolable over the idea that he would leave her has kept him as trapped as the curse did. Arisa wants to see him, Kureno wants to see her, but Kureno just can't leave even though he now has the ability to .

Oh, yeah, the other major revelation is that Akito has been a girl this whole time (and actually has a surprisingly ample chest that she somehow keeps covered up). Suddenly Akito's possessiveness towards the male zodiac and lashing out at all the female Sohma's takes on a whole new light. Which does beg the question as to why Akito would dress up and portray herself as a male and what that means overall for the Sohma's and the curse .
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Old 2020-09-21, 15:42   Link #270
Akira Theia
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The anime has reached the season 2 finale- I must say I'm surprised to see how much care the studio is giving to this project. Other old manga that got full adaption in recent years didn't get such good treatment, but the strong aspects of the series show it did deserve this.

General thoughts so far:

I still can't say I find Tohru the most interesting shojo heroine, but I do appreciate that Takaya-sensei made her more realistic than the stereotype. What makes her more appealing to me than most shojo heroines is her relation to Kyoko. Tohru is the symbol of love and acceptance Kyoko left in the world and through her, we know what an amazing person Kyoko was. On her own, Tohru is fine, of course, it's just that her best traits are what she learned from Kyoko and that's what lets her help others. Tohru feels the most human in her interactions with Kyo and when her issues with her deceased parents are brought to light. That's where she stops pretending to be perfect and we see an orphaned girl with believable fears.

More than any of the main trio, Yuki has grown the most. Ironic, since the first season he was jealous that he felt left a little behind by Tohru and Kyo. He's now the one who is breaking free from the ties of the past and looking for his own freedom. The way he has bonded with Kakeru and Machi have been very good for him. The other two in the student council are kinda meh, clearly just there to fill in space and provide comedic relief. How that comedy works is up to subjective opinion, I guess. Still, I agree joining the council let Yuki gain an agency he didn't have in the beginning.

Kyo's big moment was the first season finale. His interactions with Tohru are great, but he has been sort of stuck since the beach arc. Keeping his distance from Tohru and continue blaming Yuki for his troubles. I mean, I get he’s like that because Akito's emotional beating basically made him give up on everything. After a while, I realized that my issue with Kyo is that he doesn't have much interaction with other characters besides Tohru, Yuki, and Kazuma. Tohru and Yuki did have some friends even at the beginning (Arisa and Saki for Tohru, Haru for Yuki), but Kyo has none. His thing with Kagura was always her one-sidedly forcing a "love" he didn't need or want on him. While I still like Kyo, compared to Yuki who did grow as his own character beyond his relation to Tohru, Kyo's role is still mainly defined as Tohru's tsundere love interest with a secret connection to her mom. I love his chemistry with Tohru, it's just that I personally like love interests better when they have impact on the plot and other characters in ways that don't tie back to the romantic relationship.

Akito is a cruel abuser and designed to be the villain everyone hates, but this season finale showed just what a pathetic person Akito really is. Only being able to accept people staying with her because a curse forces them to or worse, out of pity. Akito doesn’t know what true human bonds and healthy connections are. Her abuse towards the Zodiac is outright criminal, yes, but the adults around her like that head servant are more to blame for that because they never even scold Akito when she's threatening to kill people. What someone like Akito really needs is people who get angry at her and show her they can leave her when she mistreats them, otherwise she just keeps doing the same harm over and over like so far. Kureno might stay with her to not see her sad, but he has become just another of the people enabling Akito's abusive and codependent personality. How Akito acts is despicable, no doubt, but I find her a quite good portrait of human toxicity left unchecked at its worst.

I must say the most outstanding aspect in this series is how it handles the main romances. They're very well-written and feel realistic.

In most anime, Tohru and Kyo would be a standard couple of a nice girl and her tsundere boy, but Takaya-sensei made them much more than that. I find that their shared connection to Kyoko is the key that makes the chemistry between Tohru and Kyo so strong. After losing her mom, Tohru needed someone who reminded her to be true to herself and made her feel safe. That someone is Kyo. He's irritable and loud, but he can tell when something is wrong with Tohru and motivates her to talk about unpleasant things that she wouldn't say to anyone else because she's convinced she's the one who must help others feel better. They can read each other really well. I would say Kyo's issues in not wanting to admit how he feels about Tohru and avoiding her are more believable than many tsundere. He's deeply traumatized and redirecting his anger at Yuki to cope, so he's not in a healthy emotional state to have a girlfriend yet. There's also that he knows he’s hoing to be locked up soon, so how can he hope for a good future with Tohru like that? Tohru too must learn to accept is okay to look for what she wants for her own sake instead of her mom and others, so it's not a matter of her simply being dense like other shojo heroines. Since it tires me watching couples that run around in circles just because they don't want to be honest, I love seeing a main couple where both must improve themselves and mature emotionally before getting together.

Despite my initial doubts when I heard of the revelation of Yuki's feelings for Tohru from before I got into the anime, it really makes a lot of sense that Tohru and Yuki didn't fall in love. They simply don't have a lot of compatibility in the romantic sense because what both need is someone who can see through their masks of perfection right away. That’s why they go along better with Kyo and Machi respectively since those two are the only ones who aren’t fooled by their fake smiles and can see they’re broken inside.

That realistic aspect in the main couples are why the ArisaxKureno subplot hasn't been that interesting for me. They keep longing for each other, but they're basically strangers. Kureno feels attracted to Arisa because he's been isolated with Akito most of his life, so a girl who can be nice and express herself freely like Arisa is something he has never seen before. Arisa is smitten with Kureno because she thinks he's a male Tohru, but I don't think that's it. Or rather, Kureno is what Tohru could be if Akito turned her into a complete doormat. Maybe I would have liked ArisaxKureno better if they were more proactive in seeking each other out, you know like arranging secret meetings and all that stuff of a forbidden romance to make me want to see them together in the end. Although, that's part of my personal wish that Arisa had a more participative role in the main plot, even if that would leave her at risk of being hurt by Akito. However, the one who took action to help Arisa and Kureno stay connected is Tohru and Kureno is unfortunately too conditioned to obey Akito to truly break free and seek a romance. All I'm trying to say is that Arisa is a good character with a touching and realistic backstory, so I believe she could have been used for more than pining after a man she barely knows. I understand that Arisa represents something Kureno yearns for in the outside world, but I never thought the girl he fell for needed to be Arisa specifically. Who knows, maybe it's just that their chemistry didn't seem that strong to me or that I would have liked this romantic subplot tied into Arisa's character development somehow, that's just me.

Other aspect I have wished was explored more in the series is the parents of the cursed Sohmas. Well, yes, we know most of them are cruel and abusive, but I would have liked more context for what makes them that way. I understand in the case of Kyo because everyone in the Sohma family hates the cat so having him as your child is a source of shame, but with the others, we don't know that much of why they would become unstable and hateful like Momiji's mom and Rin's parents. I suppose that they were disgusted that their child can transform into an animal is meant to be the explanation, I just would have liked to actually see what they were going through instead of just hearing from Momiji and Rin how their parents abandoned them because they couldn't stand them. I believe that the story meant to imply Yuki's mom had some issues and she was taking them out by trying to control her sons, reason why she began trying to act like a mom a bit more after Ayame and Yuki finally stood up to her. But, definitely, she was way too cruel by yelling she wished her sons were never born, so I wanted to know more about her to find her a more human character.
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Old 2020-09-21, 17:48   Link #271
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The reveal of Akito's true gender wasnot surprising, but the fact that Kureno actually broke free of the curse is. It certainly adds mystery to the curse to just have it spontaneously leave him.

Kureno is still basically with Akito out of choice and goodwill, but all that is framed in a negative light here. Kureno is bascially a bad end Tohru that never really leanred to be selfish and just gives and gives. Say what you want about Shigure, but he may be onto something when he points out that Kureno's actions may have ended up enabling Akito more than anything.
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Old 2020-09-21, 18:31   Link #272
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So it turns out Kureno did not have a homosexual relationship with Akito as was hinted earlier in the episode. I noticed that just before the big reveal, the translator used "their" in a reference to Akito. I wondered if the Japanese word was equally non-gendered. Indeed references to Akito in the Crunchyroll translation always seemed pretty gender-neutral. Is that true in the Japanese?

I thought this one of the better episodes of the season. I still put the episodes with Kyou that close season one at the top of the heap tough. And the first ED for season two, ad meliora, is a contender for my best OP/ED list.

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Old 2020-09-21, 18:48   Link #273
serenade_beta
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How the hell did they manage to get 24-episodes x 3 seasons for such an old and not really that popular, especially now, anime?
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Old 2020-09-21, 18:50   Link #274
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Akito being female has been on my mind since her first appearance due to her being voiced by Maaya Sakamoto (who has voiced young boys, but never adult males IIRC), I even remember discussing it in the season one thread and eventually dropped the subject and just went with what the anime wanted us to believe. The more we found out about Akito, the more likely it seemed. She is very possessive of the male zodiacs besides Kyo and every time she found out one of them was in a relationship, she always took out her anger on the woman. She called other girls ugly several times too, which strikes me as the behavior of a jealous woman. Anyway, I'm not sure what this changes for Tohru exactly.

Sensei: Other characters always used gender neutral or male pronouns to refer to Akito, I'm pretty sure her gender is supposed to be a secret only the older zodiacs know about.

The actual reveal was Kureno's curse just breaking on its own years ago. Sadly, it doesn't provide much of a hint on how to break it for the others. I agree Arisa and Kureno's romance seem extremely shallow, perhaps it's supposed to be and it won't work out at all between them.
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Old 2020-09-21, 18:51   Link #275
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
How the hell did they manage to get 24-episodes x 3 seasons for such an old and not really that popular, especially now, anime?
I think the production company was genuinely interested in properly adapting the entire manga with Takaya's permission.
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Old 2020-09-21, 21:06   Link #276
Master_Yoma
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So a lot of secrets were revealed and Kureno was in the spotlight

8/10 So one last season
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Old 2020-09-21, 23:12   Link #277
Frontier
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Anyway, I'm not sure what this changes for Tohru exactly.
I think it gives her more context for who Akito is and possibly the situation she is in in terms of having to hide their gender and project this specific front towards others.
Quote:
The actual reveal was Kureno's curse just breaking on its own years ago. Sadly, it doesn't provide much of a hint on how to break it for the others. I agree Arisa and Kureno's romance seem extremely shallow, perhaps it's supposed to be and it won't work out at all between them.
First loves are rough .
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Old 2020-09-22, 01:26   Link #278
shmaster
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While I still like Kyo, compared to Yuki who did grow as his own character beyond his relation to Tohru, Kyo's role is still mainly defined as Tohru's tsundere love interest with a secret connection to her mom. I love his chemistry with Tohru, it's just that I personally like love interests better when they have impact on the plot and other characters in ways that don't tie back to the romantic relationship.
To raise you anticipation for the upcoming season, you'll see progression in Tohru and Kyo's character as we get to know more about Kyoko.
The problem in both Tohru and Kyo's character build are that both of their core trauma is closely tied to Kyoko and the two of them won't be making any progress until that gets resolved.
With Kyoko's story arc saved for the end, we have this impression that these had little changes overall.
But once what happened between Kyo and Kyoko gets revealed, Kyo's behavior until now will fell under a completely different interpretation, including why he treats Tohru the way he did.
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Old 2020-09-22, 20:28   Link #279
serenade_beta
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I think the production company was genuinely interested in properly adapting the entire manga with Takaya's permission.
If the author was like Tezuka, I'd understand. But the author is just some person who never really made any hits other than Fruits Basket (if you can consider it a hit).
But if the production company really decided on their own free will to spend 3 x 2 cour on this... More power to them, I guess. Much more meaningful than half of the.......... t... stuff each season.
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Old 2020-09-22, 21:57   Link #280
shmaster
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
If the author was like Tezuka, I'd understand. But the author is just some person who never really made any hits other than Fruits Basket (if you can consider it a hit).
But if the production company really decided on their own free will to spend 3 x 2 cour on this... More power to them, I guess. Much more meaningful than half of the.......... t... stuff each season.
For a manga that was enlisted Guinness Record back in 2007, and the culminated sales has exceed 30million copies now a days.
If this is not a hit, what is?
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