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Lucidrago · 2017-10-20, 23:10

Where was it said that Issei almost fully mastered his powers? Achieving a bunch of forms doesn't mean he has almost mastered his powers. If he's done that then he should be Top 10 level right now.

And also fast-pace growth is a symptom of MCitis. When you got a MC with next to no talent whose starting point is at a regular human's and you want to keep the story in a high school setting with no timeskips then it seems very off. Especially when you sell the MC as a no-talent loser(I'm looking at you, Naruto!). And suddenly they're mastering things in weeks that took the geniuses years to even come up with. And then you're selling us on the idea that they did it with hard work. You start wondering really. Who's the geniuses? Then you realize it's because they have to create an uber-powerful character and they can't just have a bunch of timeskips like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. And some series don't have timeskips at all like DxD(year timeskips). So now they've got to give the MC special attention convincing their audience that this guy is so pathetic but is now mastering things in weeks that took the geniuses years even those that added in hard work. Think about it for a second.

Parry999 · 2017-10-20, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Where was it said that Issei almost fully mastered his powers? Achieving a bunch of forms doesn't mean he has almost mastered his powers. If he's done that then he should be Top 10 level right now.

And also fast-pace growth is a symptom of MCitis. When you got a MC with next to no talent whose starting point is at a regular human's and you want to keep the story in a high school setting with no timeskips then it seems very off. Especially when you sell the MC as a no-talent loser(I'm looking at you, Naruto!). And suddenly they're mastering things in weeks that took the geniuses years to even come up with. And then you're selling us on the idea that they did it with hard work. You start wondering really. Who's the geniuses? Then you realize it's because they have to create an uber-powerful character and they can't just have a bunch of timeskips like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. And some series don't have timeskips at all like DxD(year timeskips). So now they've got to give the MC special attention convincing their audience that this guy is so pathetic but is now mastering things in weeks that took the geniuses years even those that added in hard work. Think about it for a second.

I know and I don't like it. Issei and vali have been at top ten level since they got Dxd though.

Gaizafaiz · 2017-10-20, 23:51

@Lucidrago Well in Naruto's case, he's been training since he was a youngster. The only problem is that due to his poor management of chakra, he was called a no talented person. But once he has a grasp on it, he bloomed quite fast. And no he's no ordinary human, he has the Uzumaki bloodline + Kyuubi in him.

@Parry999 Agree. Since they got DxD, things have really changed a lot.

Krudelu · 2017-10-21, 00:48

As for Issei gaining forms, there's outside factors involved in them for the most part (like DxD form where it's due to Ophis's "blessing"). So basically, the way he gained this forms is like gaining new equipment from somewhere rather than achieved through training. BB is like the only one to be unlocked with the training as part of achieving it while poking the breast as a catalyst.

Most of his training address his stamina usage and getting the hang of his "equipment" while learning other applications along the way.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-21, 05:48

He got the Triaina and True Queen from within the Boosted Gear, though, just like Balance Breaker. Those are Ddraig's own powers. Ophis and Great Red's powers are what he was given later and is having to unlock and master. Though he also hasn't managed to completely bring out and master Ddraig's full power either. I think he'll do it eventually, though. He probably has to awaken the power he got from Great Red first. And there's also what Ajuka said in Volume 23 Life 3 according to Noman's spoilers.

But we can say he's almost mastered Ddraig's powers because he just has to complete the True Queen for that now. It's already close since it's at Maou-class power. I think there's just one more giant upgrade to go before it reaches Ddraig's full power from his prime.

Krudelu · 2017-10-21, 07:06

Triana and True Queen were developed after getting his evil pieces adjusted so evil pieces , which is the "outside factor," played a part on achieving these forms. I wonder what forms would he get past BB if he doesn't have the evil pieces.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-21, 14:20

He would've gotten them anyway, it's just that adjusting the Evil Pieces made them able to cope with the power of the Sekiryuutei more easily. And plus, the adjustment was needed to clean up the code inside the Evil Pieces that had gotten messed up because of Juggernaut Drive. It would've been dangerous for Ise himself if Ajuka hadn't done that.

And those forms are Ise's answer to a power different from Juggernaut Drive that, when mastered, will also bring out the full power of the Sekiryuutei from his prime, just in this case it'd be without the negative emotions and stuff that had been tainting it in Juggernaut Drive. If he didn't have the Evil Pieces, he would've gotten a different from that does the same thing as Juggernaut Drive without the same risks. Because at the end of the day, that's what the Triaina and True Queen are, right? Ise just hasn't perfected them yet (because the True Queen isn't at the same level as Ddraig in his prime yet).

Darksider555 · 2017-10-21, 19:13

I just noticed that Rias has the least amount of techniques, unique fighting abilities and forms than anyone on the ORC. Compared to the rest of them, she doesn't show nearly as much application of techniques and abilities compared to Akeno, Asia & Koneko especially compared to Issei, Kiba & Xenovia.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-21, 19:25

Well, we're about to see a new fighting style from her in Volume 24 (in the Rias Gremory team vs. Hakuryuukou of the Morning Star team match). Let's hope we see more of what she can do.

We've seen a good amount of her techniques, though. We've seen how she uses the Power of Destruction, and we've also seen a bit (only a bit, though, unfortunately) of how she fights. And she also has Extinguish Star, though that takes a really long time to charge up. I really hope she can fix that problem soon.

Heracrim · 2017-10-21, 19:39

Probably a small version of Extinguish Star. I seriously imagine her charging up ES just like how Goku charging up for Spirit Bomb.

B214 · 2017-10-21, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

He would've gotten them anyway, it's just that adjusting the Evil Pieces made them able to cope with the power of the Sekiryuutei more easily. And plus, the adjustment was needed to clean up the code inside the Evil Pieces that had gotten messed up because of Juggernaut Drive. It would've been dangerous for Ise himself if Ajuka hadn't done that.

And those forms are Ise's answer to a power different from Juggernaut Drive that, when mastered, will also bring out the full power of the Sekiryuutei from his prime, just in this case it'd be without the negative emotions and stuff that had been tainting it in Juggernaut Drive. If he didn't have the Evil Pieces, he would've gotten a different from that does the same thing as Juggernaut Drive without the same risks. Because at the end of the day, that's what the Triaina and True Queen are, right? Ise just hasn't perfected them yet (because the True Queen isn't at the same level as Ddraig in his prime yet).

Actually no. If Ajuka hadn't adjusted the Evil Pieces, Ise wouldn't have unlocked Triaina or CCQ. The program could potentially make Ise's EP malfunction due to it being messy.

Quote:

“…..The power of chess pieces. The trait is being used on something else and is changing a bit. This is an interesting phenomenon. Looks like it’s overwritten by a code that isn’t written in my program. From my personal view, it must be the influence of “Juggernaut Drive”…… But the overwritten code is messy. With this program, it would malfunction easily…… Yes. I will alter the evil-piece within you.”

Krudelu · 2017-10-21, 22:30

@DragonOsman my point was that he didn't get Triana and CCQ through sheer training. Sure that they are the answer to JD but the point is that the EP was part of that help

He might have gotten another alternatives to JD if it wasn't for EP but the way he'll attain them will be a speculation at this point.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-22, 06:35

If he didn't have Evil Pieces, he would've gotten his answer to Juggernaut Drive in a way similar to Vali's. Except it'd have been something more exclusive to him as the Oppai Dragon, I guess.

@B214: Yeah, without the adjustments, the malfunction could've possibly endangered Ise's life, right? But I think it's still possible that he would've gotten those forms anyway. The malfunctioning program may just have created problems for him even after getting those forms and he might have died soon afterwards.

B214 · 2017-10-22, 07:01

That's if Ise is some super genius who knows how to rewrite the codes himself so that the EP can adapt to Ddraig's power. Otherwise i don't think it's possible.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-22, 09:22

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Ise would probably have died from the malfunctioning code.

2017-10-21, 05:48	Link #865
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	He got the Triaina and True Queen from within the Boosted Gear, though, just like Balance Breaker. Those are Ddraig's own powers. Ophis and Great Red's powers are what he was given later and is having to unlock and master. Though he also hasn't managed to completely bring out and master Ddraig's full power either. I think he'll do it eventually, though. He probably has to awaken the power he got from Great Red first. And there's also what Ajuka said in Volume 23 Life 3 according to Noman's spoilers. But we can say he's almost mastered Ddraig's powers because he just has to complete the True Queen for that now. It's already close since it's at Maou-class power. I think there's just one more giant upgrade to go before it reaches Ddraig's full power from his prime. __________________

2017-10-21, 14:20	Link #867
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	He would've gotten them anyway, it's just that adjusting the Evil Pieces made them able to cope with the power of the Sekiryuutei more easily. And plus, the adjustment was needed to clean up the code inside the Evil Pieces that had gotten messed up because of Juggernaut Drive. It would've been dangerous for Ise himself if Ajuka hadn't done that. And those forms are Ise's answer to a power different from Juggernaut Drive that, when mastered, will also bring out the full power of the Sekiryuutei from his prime, just in this case it'd be without the negative emotions and stuff that had been tainting it in Juggernaut Drive. If he didn't have the Evil Pieces, he would've gotten a different from that does the same thing as Juggernaut Drive without the same risks. Because at the end of the day, that's what the Triaina and True Queen are, right? Ise just hasn't perfected them yet (because the True Queen isn't at the same level as Ddraig in his prime yet). __________________

2017-10-21, 19:25	Link #869
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Well, we're about to see a new fighting style from her in Volume 24 (in the Rias Gremory team vs. Hakuryuukou of the Morning Star team match). Let's hope we see more of what she can do. We've seen a good amount of her techniques, though. We've seen how she uses the Power of Destruction, and we've also seen a bit (only a bit, though, unfortunately) of how she fights. And she also has Extinguish Star, though that takes a really long time to charge up. I really hope she can fix that problem soon. __________________

2017-10-21, 19:39	Link #870
Heracrim Seeker of Shoujo Novels Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: My Sweet Home Age: 24	Probably a small version of Extinguish Star. I seriously imagine her charging up ES just like how Goku charging up for Spirit Bomb. __________________

2017-10-22, 06:35	Link #873
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	If he didn't have Evil Pieces, he would've gotten his answer to Juggernaut Drive in a way similar to Vali's. Except it'd have been something more exclusive to him as the Oppai Dragon, I guess. @B214: Yeah, without the adjustments, the malfunction could've possibly endangered Ise's life, right? But I think it's still possible that he would've gotten those forms anyway. The malfunctioning program may just have created problems for him even after getting those forms and he might have died soon afterwards. __________________

2017-10-20, 23:10	Link #861
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	Where was it said that Issei almost fully mastered his powers? Achieving a bunch of forms doesn't mean he has almost mastered his powers. If he's done that then he should be Top 10 level right now. And also fast-pace growth is a symptom of MCitis. When you got a MC with next to no talent whose starting point is at a regular human's and you want to keep the story in a high school setting with no timeskips then it seems very off. Especially when you sell the MC as a no-talent loser(I'm looking at you, Naruto!). And suddenly they're mastering things in weeks that took the geniuses years to even come up with. And then you're selling us on the idea that they did it with hard work. You start wondering really. Who's the geniuses? Then you realize it's because they have to create an uber-powerful character and they can't just have a bunch of timeskips like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. And some series don't have timeskips at all like DxD(year timeskips). So now they've got to give the MC special attention convincing their audience that this guy is so pathetic but is now mastering things in weeks that took the geniuses years even those that added in hard work. Think about it for a second.

2017-10-20, 23:51	Link #863
Gaizafaiz Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017	@Lucidrago Well in Naruto's case, he's been training since he was a youngster. The only problem is that due to his poor management of chakra, he was called a no talented person. But once he has a grasp on it, he bloomed quite fast. And no he's no ordinary human, he has the Uzumaki bloodline + Kyuubi in him. @Parry999 Agree. Since they got DxD, things have really changed a lot.

2017-10-21, 00:48	Link #864
Krudelu ??? Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: ???	As for Issei gaining forms, there's outside factors involved in them for the most part (like DxD form where it's due to Ophis's "blessing"). So basically, the way he gained this forms is like gaining new equipment from somewhere rather than achieved through training. BB is like the only one to be unlocked with the training as part of achieving it while poking the breast as a catalyst. Most of his training address his stamina usage and getting the hang of his "equipment" while learning other applications along the way.

2017-10-21, 07:06	Link #866
Krudelu ??? Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: ???	Triana and True Queen were developed after getting his evil pieces adjusted so evil pieces , which is the "outside factor," played a part on achieving these forms. I wonder what forms would he get past BB if he doesn't have the evil pieces.

2017-10-21, 19:13	Link #868
Darksider555 Bringer of Darkness Join Date: Aug 2016	I just noticed that Rias has the least amount of techniques, unique fighting abilities and forms than anyone on the ORC. Compared to the rest of them, she doesn't show nearly as much application of techniques and abilities compared to Akeno, Asia & Koneko especially compared to Issei, Kiba & Xenovia.

2017-10-21, 22:30	Link #872
Krudelu ??? Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: ???	@DragonOsman my point was that he didn't get Triana and CCQ through sheer training. Sure that they are the answer to JD but the point is that the EP was part of that help He might have gotten another alternatives to JD if it wasn't for EP but the way he'll attain them will be a speculation at this point.

2017-10-22, 07:01	Link #874
B214 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014	That's if Ise is some super genius who knows how to rewrite the codes himself so that the EP can adapt to Ddraig's power. Otherwise i don't think it's possible.

2017-10-22, 09:22	Link #875
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Ise would probably have died from the malfunctioning code. __________________