Fansub group designed for fansubbers

[getfresh]

That is fairly unneeded these days since the advent of tokyo tosho listing bt trackers for raws. If it were harder than googling a new series name the day or day after it is released as it was in the old days, sure I'd go into it, but it isn't. If they want special raws like .ts or vobs they are pretty much on their own unless they hit tokyo tosho. I can't give access or info into where I get most of my raws since I get them from private groups. If you have more input into that section of the process that is general feel free to share it. I just don't see what else needs saying beyond that.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by getfresh

That is fairly unneeded these days since the advent of tokyo tosho listing bt trackers for raws. If it were harder than googling a new series name the day or day after it is released as it was in the old days, sure I'd go into it, but it isn't. If they want special raws like .ts or vobs they are pretty much on their own unless they hit tokyo tosho. I can't give access or info into where I get most of my raws since I get them from private groups. If you have more input into that section of the process that is general feel free to share it. I just don't see what else needs saying beyond that.

Well I would just put contact info to the private groups you get your raws from. It's just that the all inclusive openness goal, it would seem to me that basically someone should be able to come in and re-create the process that your group uses in particular, not having to substitute for some alternative for certain bits like raw getting. If you get raws from a non-public source, you should explain where this source is and how one could arrange getting raws from there too by providing contact information. Otherwise there's still this air of "well, there's some secret place we get our raws that you can't use" to it that feels like it goes against the concept.

It's like if you said you use some program to create karaoke for the show, but then don't say what program it is or where you could download it from,

[pichu]

Well, we started a freelancing group in the middle of last year... (and I made a thread too, but xris gave me an infraction for making that thread and then moved it to Asuki Classifieds since it's an announcement/ad, and I questioned about an older FLF thread being made here -- he said that it was before the classifieds thread, so meh)

The GWi (Group Whore Incorporated) was around 20-30 members (fansubbers -- full fansub staff from translation to afx). Only a few assignments were done/accepted, because it appears that most groups wanted dedications -- not some freelancers (except for karaoke and logos which can be done one time easily for the entire project).

Well... best of luck in whatever you're trying to pursue.

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Well I would just put contact info to the private groups you get your raws from. It's just that the all inclusive openness goal, it would seem to me that basically someone should be able to come in and re-create the process that your group uses in particular, not having to substitute for some alternative for certain bits like raw getting. If you get raws from a non-public source, you should explain where this source is and how one could arrange getting raws from there too by providing contact information. Otherwise there's still this air of "well, there's some secret place we get our raws that you can't use" to it that feels like it goes against the concept.

It's like if you said you use some program to create karaoke for the show, but then don't say what program it is or where you could download it from,

You are failing to see the point that the people/groups I get some of my raws from do not wish to be known. I cannot give out information that is not mine to give out. Anything I'm offering access to everything I have the right to. I'd appreciate if you didn't nitpick at this just for the sake of it.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by getfresh

You are failing to see the point that the people/groups I get some of my raws from do not wish to be known. I cannot give out information that is not mine to give out. Anything I'm offering access to everything I have the right to. I'd appreciate if you didn't nitpick at this just for the sake of it.

If your source is private, that's fine, but I hope you can see my point about how that mars the image of transparency.

[getfresh]

Yes I do understand your point. But what I am doing is attempting to balance this between what the staff+resources are willing to give out and what I at bare minimum must have open to the public. you should know from fansubbing that the amount I am giving out is quite a bit. I wish I could do more but I'm not going to beat people up or hold it against them for refusing. Everything has limits, these happen to be my current ones I'm working with.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by getfresh

Yes I do understand your point. But what I am doing is attempting to balance this between what the staff+resources are willing to give out and what I at bare minimum must have open to the public. you should know from fansubbing that the amount I am giving out is quite a bit. I wish I could do more but I'm not going to beat people up or hold it against them for refusing. Everything has limits, these happen to be my current ones I'm working with.

Well, if I could make a suggestion: Since raws are so easy to get from TT and other places now, why don't you use those public raws for one of your future projects as an example for groups to be able to emulate?

[getfresh]

Because we are trying to avoid oversub series 100% as well as trying to do series that were passed over in the years gone by, or not completed. So the raws for alot of those are just not available through normal means sadly. If the raws are available through normal means, yes that will be our course of action. It all depends on the situation.

[dj_tjerk]

Originally Posted by getfresh

Yes I do understand your point. But what I am doing is attempting to balance this between what the staff+resources are willing to give out and what I at bare minimum must have open to the public. you should know from fansubbing that the amount I am giving out is quite a bit. I wish I could do more but I'm not going to beat people up or hold it against them for refusing. Everything has limits, these happen to be my current ones I'm working with.

I have to say, it might be nice for people to actually WATCH the process... though because you're "slowsubbing" it might not be as interesting as seeing some very fast/efficient groups in action.

As far as fansubbing itself is concerned.. i don't think it's that hard at all... softsubs have made the scripts publicly available/easily steal'able, and one can learn from scripts made by other groups... And for the other tasks:

Spoiler for fansubbing is easy?:

• Encoding: doom9?
• Editing: be a native speaker and/or get/have a degree in english
• Typesetting: aegisub has great manuals + a shitload of examples
• Karaoke: normal \k timed kara is softsubbed, some great more advanced kara templates are available too on the internet.
• Timing: takes time, but is an easy job with timing postprocessor (and again.. aegisub manual)
• Translation: unlike the world of scanlators, translation is not a seperate process, but what idiot would start a group without a translator (many are actually.. i suggest they just join a group that already has a TL ._.)
• Raws: Perfect Dark/Share... even wikipedia points you in the right direction to set one of those up. Private raws are fun ,but certainly not mandatory for a good release.
• AFX Skillz: If you're already pirating AFX (if you're not... you're either wasting money or you already know how to use it), also pirate some tutorials (e.g. "lynda.com's after effects cs3 essentials")

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by dj_tjerk

I have to say, it might be nice for people to actually WATCH the process... though because you're "slowsubbing" it might not be as interesting as seeing some very fast/efficient groups in action.

As far as fansubbing itself is concerned.. i don't think it's that hard at all... softsubs have made the scripts publicly available/easily steal'able, and one can learn from scripts made by other groups... And for the other tasks:

Spoiler for fansubbing is easy?:

• Encoding: doom9?
• Editing: be a native speaker and/or get/have a degree in english
• Typesetting: aegisub has great manuals + a shitload of examples
• Karaoke: normal \k timed kara is softsubbed, some great more advanced kara templates are available too on the internet.
• Timing: takes time, but is an easy job with timing postprocessor (and again.. aegisub manual)
• Translation: unlike the world of scanlators, translation is not a seperate process, but what idiot would start a group without a translator (many are actually.. i suggest they just join a group that already has a TL ._.)
• Raws: Perfect Dark/Share... even wikipedia points you in the right direction to set one of those up. Private raws are fun ,but certainly not mandatory for a good release.
• AFX Skillz: If you're already pirating AFX (if you're not... you're either wasting money or you already know how to use it), also pirate some tutorials (e.g. "lynda.com's after effects cs3 essentials")

I don't believe "slowsubbing" or "speed subbing" was ever brought up. Please read the posts fully first. And yes, the whole forum has posted those links at one time or another, but those have nothing to do with this. If you are only going to post to be obtuse please don't.

[Sylf]

I only see limited amount of benefits by releasing the script. Other ASS typesetters probably are the ones who will benefit the most. There's only so much you can learn on timing from other scripts. For the speed of the timing, that's something you learn from experience. For other qualities, QC's and timer's own experience would come in to play. When it comes to editing and translating, those are purely linguistic skills, which we won't learn from the released scripts. Release of the avs scripts/encoder setting would be more useful if they come with some explanation/reasoning on some filters, with some accompanying screenshots or sample raw footage.

Overall, "fansub for the fansubbers" sounds like an overkill slogan.

[Koroku]

I don't see much use in releasing just the final script. I'd rather see all the scripts put on a put http or something, so people really can see how it goes from point a to point b and such.

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by Sylf

I only see limited amount of benefits by releasing the script. Other ASS typesetters probably are the ones who will benefit the most. There's only so much you can learn on timing from other scripts. For the speed of the timing, that's something you learn from experience. For other qualities, QC's and timer's own experience would come in to play. When it comes to editing and translating, those are purely linguistic skills, which we won't learn from the released scripts. Release of the avs scripts/encoder setting would be more useful if they come with some explanation/reasoning on some filters, with some accompanying screenshots or sample raw footage.

Overall, "fansub for the fansubbers" sounds like an overkill slogan.

The scripts are being released mainly to show formatting, ways things are generally commented {edit, trans check, etc...}, the typesetting as you said, and whatever else someone can take from it. If the scripts can be softsubbed they will be. The releasing of scripts other than in mkv/mp4 containers is because they are will not render in real time.

Yes everything takes experience, but I know I have referenced older scripts many times to check the way things were commented out, or to look at certain formatting styles used that I felt would work best for a series.

" Fansub group designed for fansubbers" was just a thread title to describe what I was posting about. I believe it was pretty much to the point. I'm not plastering it on scripts, or in chan topics, or anywhere else. It isn't a "slogan" you are going to see repeated over and over so please don't misunderstand that.

Originally Posted by Koroku

I don't see much use in releasing just the final script. I'd rather see all the scripts put on a put http or something, so people really can see how it goes from point a to point b and such.

That is a possibility that I am considering.

[dj_tjerk]

Originally Posted by getfresh

I don't believe "slowsubbing" or "speed subbing" was ever brought up. Please read the posts fully first. And yes, the whole forum has posted those links at one time or another, but those have nothing to do with this. If you are only going to post to be obtuse please don't.

Originally Posted by getfresh

Don't expect speed sub situations from us. We all have other groups we work for, and are not into speed subbing anyways. This is not to say anything bad or good about speed subbing. We are not interested in the politics of fansubbing AT ALL. That said, please do not bring those politics into our channel.

I can read? And personally I think 'normal' subbing is 99% waiting for your turn and walking down the usual chain of TL->Time->Edit->TLC->Typeset->Softqc->Encode->RC QC (maybe a different order for other projects/groups, but the idea stays the same). Seeing a very efficient group in action is more interesting imo.

On the other parts, I agree with Sylf; that's why I mentioned how you can really _learn_ an aspect of fansubbing (or not).

[getfresh]

I stand corrected on that. I forgot I added that into the original post. I apologize.


As for the "how you can really _learn_ an aspect of fansubbing" statement, just because you offer some guides, applications, or wiki's doesn't mean that those are the best way. Likewise, just cause you give out scripts, let people see first hand, or answer questions in a live chat doesn't mean that is the best way.

They are both just resources for people to use. Take it for what it is without twisting it further.

[pichu]

Originally Posted by getfresh

The scripts are being released mainly to show formatting, ways things are generally commented {edit, trans check, etc...}, the typesetting as you said, and whatever else someone can take from it. If the scripts can be softsubbed they will be.

Sad but true, I tend to agree with Sylf. As an anime typesetter for 4 years more or less and with 2 years of experience in AFX/Video typesetting, I tend to agree that you can become a better typesetter just by going through examples and comments in the .ass (especially for the ones you're doing manually and not a script full of lame notes). I also learned a few .ass typesetting techniques just by going through the scripts. Styling, on the other hand, would require several scripts for the 'feel,' but it's best to learn from many other releases than going through a few scripts. The same thing can say about "Karaoke" if you provide Auto-3/Auto-4 scripts as well. One can benefit from reading those scripts. It is also possible to bring up AFX typesetters without much effort and much time as long as I provide the AFX project files and that the person knows the fundamentals of AFX. I've done it in a couple of occasions. Most typesetters won't like to do this, because they like to keep their techniques secret; I don't see anything secret about this anyways.

The same can be said that of encoding partially. With well-commented AVSynth scripts, one can also benefit from reading them. And timing... There are like five steps (audio, bleed/scene, link, lead-in/out) you really need to know specifically before timing. And no, you can't learn well from the scripts.

As for editing, qcing, and translating, you just can't become good in it just by reading through the comments and the scripts... It comes with your experience and previous knowledge of the English and Japanese language. Also, letting a lawyer or an English literature Ph.D. to do anime editing, or letting a Japanese literature researcher to do the anime translating is a very, very bad idea. They will be strict in their ways; nothing will change what they can do. One can benefit from international linguistic experts (include English and Japanese), where they do both. It's just rare to have that case though.

Why do most new fansubs "suck badly?" It's not because they are missing in the fansub process (as Tofu pointed out: TL->Time->Edit->[TLC]->Typeset->Softqc->Encode->RC QC); I've gone in a few newer groups [a few months old] and older groups [i.e., 6 years or older groups or groups with experienced staff]. <I don't wish to declare their names> In fact, the procedures done there and here are almost identical. Maybe the newer groups take some shortcuts (like skipping a couple of QCs), but the general procedures done are similar or rather very close. So why do they suck? It's not because they don't know how to fansub. The new team is made up of new kids in the block who barely pass in school. The people there are mostly ... well... how can I say? Incompetent? They have editors who don't even know grammar that well. The translator is someone who has studied Japanese for less than 1 year. Newbie encoders touched virtualdub for the first time, where they should go introduce themselves with Doom9 docs. And typesetters? Forget it.



---

Anyways, what's the goal of fansubbing? To most people, fansubbing is a form of egocentric. Like you and me. Honestly, there is no real point to this team of effort except to say:

Goddamn! Your fansubs suck ass. Let us show you the right way to fansub.

---

Edit: I tried joining a few new groups... And suggested some changes in their fansubbing processes... of course I got turned down because those people are too egocentric to accept the changes.

zzz

[getfresh]

You are free to speak for yourself, but don't go and speak for me. I'm doing it just because it is possible that some people will benefit from it. This is in no way a "You must sub this way" concept either. I don't see why people feel the need to twist this so much and be so critical about it as if this is somehow going to negatively affect you or others.

Oh, and if you believe this is somehow "ego" driven. Why the hell would I do this for ego knowing full well that I'd end up dealing with the scores of negative comments that follow pretty much every thread here. If this is considered to be some new kind of self esteem, ego booster I am totally baffled.

[dj_tjerk]

Originally Posted by pichus

[...]long story that made a lot of sense[...]
[...]comments that didn't make sense[...]
Edit: I tried joining a few new groups... And suggested some changes in their fansubbing processes... of course I got turned down because those people are too egocentric to accept the changes.

Of course, who would take advice from a funny looking pokemon

Originally Posted by getfresh

As for the "how you can really _learn_ an aspect of fansubbing" statement, just because you offer some guides, applications, or wiki's doesn't mean that those are the best way. Likewise, just cause you give out scripts, let people see first hand, or answer questions in a live chat doesn't mean that is the best way.

They are both just resources for people to use. Take it for what it is without twisting it further.

Myeah.. guess that's true... I learned AFX mostly by self-teaching and looking for tutorials on the internet, but some (typesetting) aspects i got taught by some more experienced afx typesetters... Timing/styling the same...

[pichu]

not to make any judgement, but getfresh... that's the attitude of an egocentric person. Reversed psychology.

And yes, that last few sentences you wrote - is so true here... My threads/posts were bashed by you and by others (nonfansubbers) before. I don't really care (aka too ego to even care); I was just getting the point across.

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by pichus

not to make any judgement, but getfresh... that's the attitude of an egocentric person. Reversed psychology.

And yes, that last few sentences you wrote - is so true here... My threads/posts were bashed by you and by others (nonfansubbers) before. I don't really care (aka too ego to even care); I was just getting the point across.

Sorry to break this to you, but there is nothing wrong with pride. There is this over-all "hate" in fansubbing that presents itself in the form of people saying "you are such a ego subber" whenever someone shows that they have pride in their work. I personally take pride in things I felt I did to the best of my ability. For me it has never been about how many people hail my work, though it does make me feel good. For me it has always been about testing my personal abilities.

I like fansubbing. I enjoy it. I want to share it with more people in a positive manor. Thats what this is about. It is not about right or wrong, popular or off the beaten path. It is just a group of people sharing their experience with others(not experience as in amount of time doing something but as in the act of doing it). The reason I choose to only use fansubbers with multiple years doing sub work is because they will have more "flavor" in their work. Not that their technical skills surpass other with less time doing it. It is just that they have a more laid back and natural way of doing it since they are comfortable in their positions now.

I honestly invite anyone to contribute since this is an open thing. Not saying "sub for me" but maybe do things like it in your own group or your own ways. Revive good will and friendship in subbing and get rid of all this negativity based around competing and owning or whatever. Competition can bring out the best in people, but that has shown itself to not be the case in fansubbing. The community is broken and I'm just hoping that it can be repaired so that we can all just enjoy subbing without all the unnecessary extras that are now staples in subtitling that negatively affect us all.