AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2020-01-11, 17:42   Link #61
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
Letting players become immune to poison doesn't seem reasonable though. I assume that if you can get poision immunity you could get fire immunity and everything else too.
It's not easy to get though. Getting poison immunity requires a ton of VIT and healing potions to resist the poison affliction for a continuous long period of time. If you retreat to try again later, the effect is lost and you basically start over again. This is why no one even knew it was possible.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-11, 18:04   Link #62
kukuru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's not easy to get though. Getting poison immunity requires a ton of VIT and healing potions to resist the poison affliction for a continuous long period of time. If you retreat to try again later, the effect is lost and you basically start over again. This is why no one even knew it was possible.
I believe the requiresments for poison is to get hit 4 times with poison of a certain strength per fight for poison resistance (minor) and it scales up from there.

Also there's other yet unrevealed game mechanics for those that read ahead.
kukuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-11, 18:48   Link #63
Liddo-kun
is this so?
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
I was the front tank of our party in Ragnarok Online during boss hunt, there is of course a secondary tank behind me, just in case stuff happened. So sort of can relate a lot to this anime. I'm glad this kind of anime was done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I don't think I'll argue one way or another. I mentioned a couple things earlier, but they were minor and as I said could be chopped up to luck. Either way, saying whether the game is completely worthless, completely broken, or just has a spot or two that the devs never expected and no one was dumb enough to try or lucky enough to succeed in, entirely based on this episode is kind of like judging the whole of a movie based on the first one minute.
yeah, it's just first episode. Plenty of things not revealed yet.
Liddo-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-11, 23:25   Link #64
Magewolf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
I was the front tank of our party in Ragnarok Online during boss hunt, there is of course a secondary tank behind me, just in case stuff happened. So sort of can relate a lot to this anime. I'm glad this kind of anime was done.



yeah, it's just first episode. Plenty of things not revealed yet.
I main tank in FFXIV with a bit of healing and I have soloed dungeon bosses many times before(not by choice usually) so the end of the episode was fun to me. It did often feel like I was nibbling them to death.

The worst was when my Free Company was running a weekend to get the new recruits up to date on the Main Scenario Quests to be ready for Shadowbringers. And I got to be the tank running them through The Ghimlyt Dark(the last story dungeon at the time). Most of them were half asleep by the time they got to me and a lot of them seemed to have never learned to not stand in the pretty colors or that it helped the game move along if they would kill things. The worst group wiped 4 times on the second boss(which is one of the easiest bosses in the game it has one slow telegraphed special attack,a couple of easy to avoid aoe's, and almost no damage output) and then I just said fuck it and soloed it after they all died. And then they did the same thing with the last twin bosses which was worse since there is a minor dps check at the end of that fight to keep from wiping.
Magewolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-11, 23:31   Link #65
The Green One
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
*repeats in a deadeyed monotone*

First rule of MMORPGS...... don't stand in stupid..........
__________________
The Green One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-12, 03:42   Link #66
Liddo-kun
is this so?
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magewolf View Post
I main tank in FFXIV with a bit of healing and I have soloed dungeon bosses many times before(not by choice usually) so the end of the episode was fun to me. It did often feel like I was nibbling them to death.

The worst was when my Free Company was running a weekend to get the new recruits up to date on the Main Scenario Quests to be ready for Shadowbringers. And I got to be the tank running them through The Ghimlyt Dark(the last story dungeon at the time). Most of them were half asleep by the time they got to me and a lot of them seemed to have never learned to not stand in the pretty colors or that it helped the game move along if they would kill things. The worst group wiped 4 times on the second boss(which is one of the easiest bosses in the game it has one slow telegraphed special attack,a couple of easy to avoid aoe's, and almost no damage output) and then I just said fuck it and soloed it after they all died. And then they did the same thing with the last twin bosses which was worse since there is a minor dps check at the end of that fight to keep from wiping.
I have not played that online game, however I can sort of understand the situations you described by bits and pieces of it. For my tanking adventures -- I was a vit build Champion in Ragnarok Online, using the skill "Steel Body" it causes my character to have extra defense at the price of moving slowly (hey, it seems just like Maple in the anime! ), then a Crusader is behind me using the skill "Devotion" every damage done to me is dealt to the crusader instead -- no problem, since he has the longest hp among our party. I walked ahead into the boss Thanatos in Thanatos Tower, while the boss and his mob are hitting me, the rest of the party is free to attack. We did it perfectly around 5 or 6 times, killed Thanatos without problems. But one time, our Crusader suddenly died.. either because my "Steel Body" ended without me noticing it, or our priest failed to keep healing him. Everyone died except for me, able to escape with "Body Relocation" skill. I remember our guild leader praising that I'm good at escaping. haha --- I slowly crept back and revived everyone using ygdrassil leaf, and we defeated the boss again. So much fun memories.

Looking forward to more episodes of this great anime! ^____^

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2020-01-12 at 06:50.
Liddo-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-13, 18:32   Link #67
frodonk
Master of Killing Time
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Makinohara Service Area
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Wow, QA testing doesn't exist in this world, huh? Is the game still in beta or something? There is no way no one figure out that you can break the game this easily before this.

Seriously, how did this game even release in this state? Those potions are way too good for starting area, she just gets all of the best abilities at low level and they improve way too fast, heck, didn't some of her abilities say that they require other stats to be raised to get the effects? The damage that the dragon/hydra dealt was way too little and it's poison was way too inconsistent, how the hell did she even eat the dragon? How can she taste the dragon?

So she gets the entire set from that one battle and it's all super rare legendary gear that just so happens to raise the exact stats she needs and give her the exact abilities that fit her? How was she even able to enter that dungeon in the first place, didn't the developers even think of level gating stuff like that so that newbies don't accidentally wander in? Why does the character creation give you enough points to even break the game like this? Does balance not exist in this universe?

The movement penalty is stupid especially considering that it's barely even that much of a problem considering that half the time she was just walking at normal speed and doesn't make that much sense since just being the shield bearer class should give you the natural ability to move normally, as opposed if any other class tried to use the shield/great shield where it would make sense to cut your movement. Why would any developer make a system where players are gifted one of a kind abilities that break the game that literally no one else can or will ever have? So if I played this game and just put all of my points into speed, would I be so fast that I would get gifted a broken blink ability that let's me teleport anywhere I wanted?

Also, apparently the mods (I am guessing that's who was in those conversations) seem to have noticed someone breaking the game and are just choosing to wait and see because... reasons, I guess. Any proper developer would be shitting their pants at the prospect of someone casually breaking their game this early in the game and would be scrambling to fix the issue, but this is anime and competency isn't background characters strongest suit.

So. Many. Questionable. Decisions in just one episode, wow. Has the mangaka ever played an rpg game before?

Btw, I enjoyed the episode just fine but that isn't going to stop me from pointing out the flaws when I see them and boy oh boy, I feel like this is going to give me so much ammo.
I was sure somebody else would've pointed out the problems I had with the game and here it is

I would still give this show 3 more episodes to win me over, I don't really expect the writers to get all rpg mechanics right but I do expect them to at least know the basics.
frodonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-13, 18:56   Link #68
arkhangelsk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Seriously, how did this game even release in this state? Those potions are way too good for starting area,
They are not too good. Chrome giving her the potions is an anime-only thing. In the LN she bought the potions herself using the 3000G. The problem is that Maple didn't buff her HP at all, so she has about 40 of them. Does a potion that recover 20HP look overpowered?

Quote:
she just gets all of the best abilities at low level and they improve way too fast,
It's an anime artifact. It takes significantly longer in the LN, but anime has problems really representing medium timeframes.

Quote:
The damage that the dragon/hydra dealt was way too little and it's poison was way too inconsistent,
Blame Maple's VIT. In this game, even without resistance, VIT reduces the effect of attacks like poison as well. In essence, every single HP points gets "bigger".

Quote:
how the hell did she even eat the dragon? How can she taste the dragon?
The game permits the possibility of absorbing a small amount of HP by eating things. It's actually a feature that even such an out of the way response is planned for.

Quote:
So she gets the entire set from that one battle and it's all super rare legendary gear that just so happens to raise the exact stats she needs and give her the exact abilities that fit her?
To get that reward, you have to beat a dungeon boss by yourself, on the first try. By general standards, that's pretty hard so the game rewards you well, by literally making gear (or selecting gear from a large premade selection) that's complements the winner's strength. This is the result.

Quote:
How was she even able to enter that dungeon in the first place, didn't the developers even think of level gating stuff like that so that newbies don't accidentally wander in?
Why should they level gate stuff? She won, didn't she?

Quote:
Why does the character creation give you enough points to even break the game like this? Does balance not exist in this universe?
It does not. It has actually been tested. If you throw all your points in VIT, you can just tank a rabbit. That's all.

Quote:
Why would any developer make a system where players are gifted one of a kind abilities that break the game that literally no one else can or will ever have? So if I played this game and just put all of my points into speed, would I be so fast that I would get gifted a broken blink ability that let's me teleport anywhere I wanted?
If you meet other hard conditions. Maybe there is something at the end of the road if you dodge enemies for hours on end without making a single mistake.

Quote:
Also, apparently the mods (I am guessing that's who was in those conversations) seem to have noticed someone breaking the game and are just choosing to wait and see because... reasons,
They aren't moderators. They are fellow players.
arkhangelsk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-13, 19:30   Link #69
frodonk
Master of Killing Time
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Makinohara Service Area
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
They are not too good. Chrome giving her the potions is an anime-only thing. In the LN she bought the potions herself using the 3000G. The problem is that Maple didn't buff her HP at all, so she has about 40 of them. Does a potion that recover 20HP look overpowered?
I didn't really see anything wrong with this since what we saw here was that a higher levelled player gave her some potions that are kinda OP for a lvl 1 player and can fully heal her at that level.

But I can see why they changed it. If those potions were level appropriate for her since she bought it herself it wouldn't have made sense since normally potions don't heal you to full HP, unless she bought the higher level potions and spent all her money on them.

Quote:
It's an anime artifact. It takes significantly longer in the LN, but anime has problems really representing medium timeframes.
I know nothing about the source so when we see how fast it happened I'm assuming that's how long it took. She's lvl 2 and already has poison immunity, which she got by getting hit by poison-type attacks 40 times. that's too fast for me.

Quote:
Blame Maple's VIT. In this game, even without resistance, VIT reduces the effect of attacks like poison as well. In essence, every single HP points gets "bigger".
There's a difference between taking little damage due to high VIT and getting immunity from poison at lvl 2. If the dragon was a boss a lvl 2 character wouldn't have survived even if she had OP potions or had all her stats in VIT.

Quote:
The game permits the possibility of absorbing a small amount of HP by eating things. It's actually a feature that even such an out of the way response is planned for.
We need more shows that feature eating monsters as a valid way to defeat enemies

Quote:
To get that reward, you have to beat a dungeon boss by yourself, on the first try. By general standards, that's pretty hard so the game rewards you well, by literally making gear (or selecting gear from a large premade selection) that's complements the winner's strength. This is the result.
It was very lucky for her to get the VIT set when she could've gotten any other set that she couldn't use, but for me this is yet another evidence of bad game design that a lvl 2 character on her second day somehow triggered this "feature" without knowing anything about it.

Quote:
Why should they level gate stuff? She won, didn't she?
Normally she would've died in 1 hit even if she had all her stats on VIT at lvl 2 and had higher lvl potions with her. If you can win against a boss at lvl 2 without knowing or doing anything to prepare I'd argue that's bad game design.

Quote:
It does not. It has actually been tested. If you throw all your points in VIT, you can just tank a rabbit. That's all.
but you shouldn't have been able to tank a boss at lvl 2.

Quote:
If you meet other hard conditions. Maybe there is something at the end of the road if you dodge enemies for hours on end without making a single mistake.
stumbling over these hard conditions to get these unique skills on your second day is, once again, either very lucky for our main character or evidence of bad game design. I'm more on the bad game design side of things.
frodonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-13, 19:31   Link #70
kukuru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
In this game VIT and HP are separate values.

That means maple's 40HP base will never change until she stops putting points into vit.

Any player will tell you this is amazingly reckless. Meaning anyone except Maple would be crying back to the character creation screen fairly soon.

But I think 1ep is all it takes to establish this story:

Maple is unfair OP-cheater,but she's cute so it's ok!

The end.
kukuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-13, 19:54   Link #71
Marcus H.
Lord of the Lap Pillow
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
Quote:
Maple is unfair OP-cheater,but she's cute so it's ok!
I don't think "cheater" applies to Maple.
Maybe you're mixing this show with OP-cheat isekai shows, and Bofuri is not one of them.
__________________
Continuing from Winter 2021: Maiko-san Chi no Makanai-san (9/12).
Summer 2021: The Case Study of Vanitas, Realist Hero, The Detective is Already Dead, Isekai Drugstore, Kobayashi's Maidragon S and White Sand Aquatope (6/24).
ONA: Tawawa on Monday (8/12) and Ganbare! Douki-chan (8/12).
Autumn 2021: Blue Period [09-25], Restaurant to Another World S2 (1/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time (1/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/1cour), Komi Can't Communicate (1/1cour) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12).


Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList.
Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 431. Plan to watch: 35.
Marcus H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-13, 21:23   Link #72
kukuru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I don't think "cheater" applies to Maple.
Maybe you're mixing this show with OP-cheat isekai shows, and Bofuri is not one of them.
We're only on episode 1!
kukuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-13, 23:19   Link #73
Random Wanderer
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
She's lvl 2

...

at lvl 2

...

a lvl 2 character

...

a lvl 2 character on her second day


...

Normally she would've died in 1 hit even if she had all her stats on VIT at lvl 2

...

If you can win against a boss at lvl 2

...

but you shouldn't have been able to tank a boss at lvl 2.
You're making one fundamental mistake here. She's level 8 after defeating the bee.

Quote:
stumbling over these hard conditions to get these unique skills on your second day is, once again, either very lucky for our main character or evidence of bad game design. I'm more on the bad game design side of things.
The point is that most sane players couldn't do it on their second day. In fact, most of them couldn't do it at all. The things that happen for Maple only happen because of her unique stat allocation and nonstandard mindset.
__________________
<img src=http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/5491/girlsundpanzermakoxsodo.png border=0 alt= />

Last edited by Random Wanderer; 2020-01-13 at 23:29.
Random Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-14, 02:32   Link #74
Dark Wing
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 35
As absurd as this show is I kind of like it. Cute girl doing cute things while breaking an VRMMO...
__________________
Dark Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-14, 03:09   Link #75
Keila
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
The point is that most sane players couldn't do it on their second day. In fact, most of them couldn't do it at all. The things that happen for Maple only happen because of her unique stat allocation and nonstandard mindset.
To be fair, if someone had written up an elitist type min/maxing guide then the majority of people would be doing it (based on real-world trends).

By being a newbie/herself/self-exploration Maple is actually exploring the game in a way that is very rare in this day-and-age, where non-conformists are considered radicals to be shunned/ignored (even if they produce results far beyond anyone's wildest expectations).


I may be bias here, but some of my favorite 'gaming' related stories are where the MC literally has no idea/preconceptions going in and they get to explore and enjoy the rich world for all it's worth.
__________________
Keila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-14, 18:35   Link #76
frodonk
Master of Killing Time
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Makinohara Service Area
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
You're making one fundamental mistake here. She's level 8 after defeating the bee.
Unless the max level is 10 then that doesn't really matter, whether it's 2 or 8 the point is she's too low level to survive a boss fight.

Quote:
The point is that most sane players couldn't do it on their second day. In fact, most of them couldn't do it at all. The things that happen for Maple only happen because of her unique stat allocation and nonstandard mindset.
There's a huge difference between a non-standard way of thinking about the game that leads to stuff that traditional/normal/sane players couldn't have come up with and a newbie who didn't know the game rules and stumbles onto what the devs considered to be features that nobody ever has thought of doing, at least for me anyway.

I can accept that she got a sort of reward from playing the game poorly for a length of time because she didn't know how it's supposed to be played though, if that's the game design the devs of this particular game thought of then sure that might work, but I haven't seen any example of a game that rewards you for playing poorly, normally you just get killed over and over and constantly have a bad time until you learn how to play the game properly as intended or you stop playing and ragequit.
frodonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-14, 19:28   Link #77
kukuru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Everyone just forgets this is a VRMMO which the VR in-front of it. There is a a sci-fi lens given that technology and techniques are much more complex and more ways to do odd stuff.

It wasn't until a certain game stuck the "jump" command in MMO that unleashed a chain of never ending bugs/abuses/development issues to come with it.

Back then games didn't have a "unstuck command", after all it so rarely happened it was just a GM function, guess why it changed, because people can jump into random collision bugs.

And that's the tip of the iceberg, since you can cheat bosses, and even cheat skills (the infamous jump to counteract animation lock is famous lesson grounded into game developers today). All from just one innocent advancement in UI. Imagine full dive-VR.

Maple is just a blob of circumstances piled on with her ProtaganistEX Luck trait.
kukuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-14, 19:43   Link #78
The Green One
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
I think the problem people are having is "You're doing RPGs WRONG! GET IT RIGHT! This shows sucks until you fix that!"
__________________
The Green One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-14, 19:51   Link #79
Metaneo
Anime Watcher
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
I think the problem people are having is "You're doing RPGs WRONG! GET IT RIGHT! This shows sucks until you fix that!"
Not to mention the people that are acting like they have not only 10+ years of experience on game developing and programming, but developing and programming for a genre of game that doesn't even exist.
Metaneo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-01-14, 21:52   Link #80
Magewolf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
Not to mention the people that are acting like they have not only 10+ years of experience on game developing and programming, but developing and programming for a genre of game that doesn't even exist.
It looks like the game is trying to make a simulated world based on generalized systems as opposed to what we are used to with everything being a special case. Sort of like how Ultima Online wanted to have an actual ecological system with herbivores eating plants,carnivores eating them, and all of them reproducing when there were a well fed pair close together. Which actually worked until the game went live and the pc's spread across the world like a never ending swarm of locusts killing everything they came across which made them go with the timed respawning system that became the norm in pretty much every MMO after it.

The apple slice bunny spent an hour ramming her stomach but the first time it hit her shield it bashed it's digital brains out. That looks like the work of a material damage system at work. Players bodies are coded as "soft" materials vs the shield's "hard" material. Much like the real world difference between hitting someone in the stomach and punching a wooden wall.

So there are probably lots of systems interacting in the game in ways that even the coders only vaguely understand. We are just watching a lot of edge cases that had never came up before because no one had been strange enough to actually set them off before.
Magewolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adventure, bofuri, cgdct, maple

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.