(L+CR) Space Battleship Yamato 2199 (movie & TV)

[Ithekro]

I wonder what Earth policy would have been if they managed to build more Yamato like vessels, heal the planet, and not destroyed the Gamilon Empire in any effective way during 2199 and 2200. Like say the early months of 2201 when the new Earth Fleet is taking shape, but before Andromeda is built.


Or Gamilon polcy for a world that has managed to recover from their attacks and is now relatively stable and has a small but definately more powerful naval force that its own.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I wonder what Earth policy would have been if they managed to build more Yamato like vessels, heal the planet, and not destroyed the Gamilon Empire in any effective way during 2199 and 2200. Like say the early months of 2201 when the new Earth Fleet is taking shape, but before Andromeda is built.

Or Gamilon polcy for a world that has managed to recover from their attacks and is now relatively stable and has a small but definately more powerful naval force that its own.

How would they have managed that? There seems to be a rather stringent shortage of wave motion engines. Frankly speaking, getting something like the Andromeda built in only a few years using only native earth tech is already miraculous. I don't know if it's realistic to expect to this to happen much faster.


And I don't think a civilization paranoid and aggressive enough that it devised a security policy based around genocidal WMD attacks on primitive civilizations on the off chance they MIGHT be a threat would be able to live and let live with an actual threat that had reason to be irate at them.







...especially when you think about the logic that probably went into the planet bomb attacks.


If the Gamilons JUST wanted earth to surrender and submit to Gamilon domination, why wouldn't they just broad cast their demands? Outline the conditions that humanity would be occupied under? Make it clear we'd be subjugated, but make it known that survival was garunteed if we just submitted. And that our overlords WOULDN'T be bug eyed monsters who wanted to eat us. They'd be humanoid aliens.


It seems illogical to force a desperate enemy to fight when he would otherwise surrender...unless the goal isn't to conquer and rule ALL civilizations. It's to conquer and rule MANAGEABLE civilizations. You don't want to conquer and uplift a more AGGRESSIVE civilization that might revolt against you at the first chance.



How do you distinguish between a manageable civilization and an aggressive one? You attack their planet without warning, and start systematically wiping them out, without giving but the vaguest demands of surrender, and no idea of who you are or what your plans for them after surrender are.

Everyone would respond with desperation to this kind of attack...the real question is, what KIND of desperation do they respond with? Do they put their back against the wall and fight to the death against impossible odds? Or do they throw themselves to the floor and beg for mercy against apparently merciless foes?


If we're the kind of people who would fight to the death in response to the Planet bomb test, the Gamilons probably think we're to violent to be managed.

[Ithekro]

I am meaning if Iscandar had been someplace else outside the Gamilon Empire, thus netting the Cosmo Cleaner and more Wave Motion Cores by the time Yamato returns to Earth before the year 2200 begins, without trashing the heart of the Empire in doing so.

Can the Earth, cleaned up, be able to build enough of a force to make the Gamilons thinks twice about trying to attack them again? Or at would it be more a gather all forces and overwhelm the Earth with a vast fleet of Gamilon ships (Wave Motion Gun fodder)? Would the Gamilons spend time to research and crash built a Desslar Cannon equipped fleet to counter Yamato and the Wave Motion Guns of the newly building Earth Fleet?

A year seemed to be all they needed to build Yamato up to the point she needed the Wave Motion Core. What would another year bring with no planet bombings and no Gamilon warships hanging around the system? Just how many ships could they build, ready for Wave Motion Cores, by the time Yamato returns? Evacuation ships even if the Wave Motion Engine doesn't work...the two lesser drives are proven technology.

It all depends on just what a dying Earth, no longer under seige, can do with its remaining time and resources. Yamato is their only hope for survival, but they might not be just sitting and waiting. With the Gamilas out of the system, the Humans have access to their system again. Mars is partly terraformed. Saturn has a mining base. Jupiter likely has resources. No idea about Uranus and Neptune in Yamato 2199...but the Gamilas left a bunch of stuff behind on Pluto.

A dying Earth is not a dead Earth.

[kimpleng]

Is there official specification of BBY-01 Yamato. I need information at least weight, long, height and wide.

[Ithekro]

333 meters long.

Others would be bases on the model. Weight...I don't know, the ship is bigger than before (where they using the IJN Yamato for eariler references).

[macdawson]

From Shultz's remarks in chapter 2, Earth was contacted and ordered to surrender but refused.
He says "foolish Terons, if you had surrendered you would have survived, as we have".
After the refusal the Gamilas forces launched a direct attack. The Earth fleet engaged them at Mars
in what has been refered to in the show as the "2nd battle of Mars", under the command of admiral Okita.
Though the battle took a heavy toll on our fleet, the Gamilas were repeled, suffering heavy losses also.
After this they decided to attack Earth indirectly, with long range attacks, thus the planet bombings started.


@Kimpleng, the most complete data i've found is in this page
http://www.starblazers.com/html.php?page_id=695

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

A dying Earth is not a dead Earth.

I don't know. The fact that the Planet bombings have stopped doesn't keep the damage that has already done from making life very difficult on earth.


Keep in mind 2199 has put more emphasis on the problems of holding out on a dying planet, even if they only reference it. Food riots are apparently a thing, which suggests to me there's a significant list of other shortages. And the increasing levels of radiation seeping down is going to make any kind of arms build up harder and harder.




Another thing to consider Ithekro. 2199 seems to be putting more thought into reasonable time frames for things to be happening. In the original humanity finds out about Iscandar and the technology for the Yamato right after the battle of pluto...then just seems to materialize a fully actualized ship out of thin air. 2199 emphasized that the Iscandarians contacted humanity WAY in advance of the battle of pluto. And they still weren't starting from scratch. They were modifying a noah's ark plan that they already had underway.

With all this new emphasis on how much time it took to get the Yamato up and running, I don't think they're going to materialize high tech earth fleets into being with the same speed that the original series did.

[kimpleng]

Originally Posted by macdawson

@Kimpleng, the most complete data i've found is in this page
http://www.starblazers.com/html.php?page_id=695

Thank you for helping. Great site reference for most information of Space Battleship Yamato 2199.

[Ithekro]

Well one thing thy can do with the Gamilas out of the system is rebuild parts of their energy infrustructure and resource gathering systems. If they were having energy problems when Yamato was launched, one way to combat that would be to construct orbital and other energy stations (solar) to deliver power to Earth. Witout the Gamilas in system to destroy these systems, Earth can at least regain some resources they've been lacking while under siege.

It won't stop the radiation, but if they can get at least some of their old economy running again, the can at least combat things like hunger shortages and power failures. Maybe start to reduce the need for riots.

If they redid their spacecraft construction yards, they could get people building these ships as a way to keep them busy rather than sit a wait for the end (if Yamato fails). Building new ships would at least give them hope (false hope as they can't get away without a wave motion engine). Even trying to reclaim the Mars colony or settle the remains of Pluto Base would give some people home as they might survive even if Earth doesn't.

Because if they go very realistic with constuction times...there will not be a Yamato 2201....at least not in that year. 2203 maybe.

[August138]

Apparently, from what I've been told, this Gamilas ship has been "stuck" in this dimensional rift since before Gamilas invaded our Solar System (2191). Once we actually see the episode, we'll see if this information is reliable or not. But, by the antiquated design of the ship, I'd say that it could be many decades old.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Keep in mind 2199 has put more emphasis on the problems of holding out on a dying planet, even if they only reference it. Food riots are apparently a thing, which suggests to me there's a significant list of other shortages.

That was featured in the original series, too. Specifically, Episode 19, where Aihara secretly communicates with his parents back on Earth via a Gamilas relay satellite (intended to break the moral of the crew).

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by August138

Apparently, from what I've been told, this Gamilas ship has been "stuck" in this dimensional rift since before Gamilas invaded our Solar System (2191). Once we actually see the episode, we'll see if this information is reliable or not. But, by the antiquated design of the ship, I'd say that it could be many decades old.

...this is gonna end with them all dying, isn't it? A tragic backround like that can't help but end in more tragedy.


This would explain their willingness to cooperate with the Yamato, based on their ignorance...which the Yamato will probably want to keep up in order to get their help. Of course this will probably be a hard secret to keep, given the way the Yamato crew is likely to look at the aliens. They're gonna notice that we REALLY hate them for some reason or another, and that alone will be enough to raise suspicion.


Of course another possibility is that this crew is from before the Gamilon Empire became as aggressive of an empire. Maybe they'll be given pause when they discover what happened to earth.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by kimpleng

Is there official specification of BBY-01 Yamato. I need information at least weight, long, height and wide.

Information update: (from 1/1000 scale model)

Yamato
BBY-01

Length: 333m
Width: 43.6m
height: 94.54m

Tonnage is not given. The old states were 62,000 tons, but the ship is bigger now.

[August138]

Thanks for posting those stats, Ithekro!

[Ingram]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Information update: (from 1/1000 scale model)

Yamato
BBY-01

Tonnage is not given. The old states were 62,000 tons, but the ship is bigger now.

Can't just scale up the weight from the model, too? ;p

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Information update: (from 1/1000 scale model)

Yamato
BBY-01

Length: 333m
Width: 43.6m
height: 94.54m

Tonnage is not given. The old states were 62,000 tons, but the ship is bigger now.

Well there's always the old inverse square cube law. big was the old Yamato?

[Ithekro]

Old data I have says the SBB Yamato (M-21991) (somepoint during the original run) was the following:

Length: 265.8m
Beam: 24.6m
Height: 77m
Tonnage: 62,000 tons.

(Information for that is from the EDF Technical Manual from 1998)
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And via starblazers.com community (from Hobby Japan) the mystery ship gets a name and type:
Meltoria-class Space Battle Cruiser

[August138]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

And via starblazers.com community (from Hobby Japan) the mystery ship gets a name and type:
Meltoria-class Space Battle Cruiser

Looks like some of the rejected Gamilas ship designs from the preproduction of the 1974 series.

[Ithekro]

Well if someone was looking for something that looked older, a preproduction design that was similar enough to what they got in Episode 1 would fit perfectly now wouldn't it? Cleaned up and stylized of course.

Looks like it is bigger than the remake's Heavy Cruisers (the traditional Gamilon Destroyer that's been in nearly everything) and more heavily armed. 300 meters maybe? Still smaller than Yamato.

I wonder about the long barrels on this ship. An earlier article showed off the remake's tri/quad-deck carriers and a new battleship that was styled similarly to the Pluto fleet flagship, but with a smoother bow area, some detail differences and long barrels on the turrets. Add to this the Gamilas Battlecarrrier from the older series had long barrel turrets, as do some of the Galman warships from the third season. (not to mention the long barrels on the side mounted guns on the Heavy Cruiser and the long barrel on the aft mount of the remake's Missile Destroyer).

Could the longer barrels provide longer range? Be a heavier weapon (that doesn't seem to be the case for the side mounted guns on the Heavy Cruiser and the aft mount on the Destroyers)? Be an older tech weapon system? A rapid fire systems (cooling units)?

I'll note this Battlecruiser has long barrels on the forward turrets and slightly shorter barrels on the side mounted guns. The aft battery and the underside battery seen to be the normal barrelless mounts.

This ship has a lot of missile/torpedo tubes. 12 torpedo tubes and possible eight missile tubes ahead of the forward turrets. Plus the after stack tubes.

The main engine seems to be seperate from the subengines like on Yamato. Most Gamilas ships have combined engine units. Also the main engine looks smaller relative to the size of the ship compared to other Gamilas warships. The intakes are also smaller, but could be as large as those on the battleship, depending on how big this ship really is.

[Roger Rambo]

I'm kinda amused that this older cruiser model seems to have better weapons coverage than the current ships

[Ithekro]

The underside turret seems to have even less of a firing arc than the newer ships.


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