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Old 2012-06-08, 08:28   Link #301
Captain Bluebeard
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yirba View Post
Higanbana isn't a When They Cry game, but I think you can interpret the story both ways. If you want to believe in the youkai, it works. If you want to believe that the youkai are just imaginary, then that also works.

I personally like to imagine that the youkai exist, and I think that's the best way to enjoy the story. However, it's a catbox with no correct answers.
I guess if Ryukishi wasn't the author of this one, no one would be questioning the youkais' existence in the first place. Rather than a catbox, I think it's just not even a question to begin with.
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Old 2012-06-08, 09:45   Link #302
RedKey
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Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
I guess if Ryukishi wasn't the author of this one, no one would be questioning the youkais' existence in the first place. Rather than a catbox, I think it's just not even a question to begin with.
Exactly. Did people question Hanyuu's existence or create an 'author theory' in Higurashi Kai?
It's a supernatural story, it should just be taken as simple as that imo.
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Old 2012-06-08, 10:24   Link #303
Corfish1001
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Yeah. If it was Higurashi or Umineko, I could understand trying to disprove all the youkai, but this story isn't about proving and disproving whether or not the youkai exists. I mean, it's a neat perspective and I HAVE actually tried to go through the stories I've read with that perspective, but in the end I think it's meant to be enjoyed under the belief that the youkai exist.
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Old 2012-06-08, 11:50   Link #304
DaBackpack
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The fact that it makes sense without the youkai also has to do with it.

Youkai lure their prey with some sort of temptation, and those who fall victim lose their souls. In other words, the weak-willed's souls are irreversibly corrupted.

I definitely agree that the ending was a downer , but if you think Of it this way it's a bit better.
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Old 2012-06-08, 12:19   Link #305
Yirba
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: England
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By the way, people mentioning the ending… Higanbana was designed to be released in two parts, so The First Night isn't really supposed to conclude anything. Although I haven't read The Second Night, I hear it has a proper ending…?
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Old 2012-06-08, 16:47   Link #306
alarmadadna hadi
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The fact that it makes sense without the youkai also has to do with it.

Youkai lure their prey with some sort of temptation, and those who fall victim lose their souls. In other words, the weak-willed's souls are irreversibly corrupted.

I definitely agree that the ending was a downer , but if you think Of it this way it's a bit better.
Reminds me of that quote by the late Satoshi Kon "The true horrors of the universe lie within humanity itself"

Spoiler for Chp 7 ending:


Only by the end of the game I got this feeling: pity. For all the humans falling for the youkai, even Hikaru or Sumire's bullies, because although I am aware youkai are not all powerful and humans have the final say of "listening" to them, I am also aware what suffering and feeling worthless can do to people.

The only negative about the final chapter to me was the slow pacing, it felt prolonged simply to increase length as the final story, but once "Reiko" got introduced, it got interesting. Many times I thought "Please don't let x happen..." and, indeed, it avoided many traps and was sufficiently satisfying.

Yup, higanbana reminded me that ryu is pretty good when it comes to plot twists. The setting of the human/non-human world, its implications and the way their inhabitants affect each other was very effective in treating many issues like suicide, bullying, addiction, power abuse and social conformity in imaginative and interesting ways.

No flowers bloom in death. Beautiful. For a third time, thanks for the translation and I look forward to the second night!
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Old 2012-06-09, 16:43   Link #307
Captain Bluebeard
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I'm currently reading Utopia, and something with this chapter just doesn't sit right with me. Children are being portrayed as irrationally cruel in this chapter, and even for the teacher to join into the bullying.....

I mean, I haven't actually experienced anything like this in my school life, so it seems a bit unnatural to me, but is bullying such a big problem in Japan or anything, or is Ryukishi just pulling all of that out of his head?
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Old 2012-06-09, 17:02   Link #308
Yirba
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I can imagine bullying is a big issue in all countries. However, the bullying in Higanbana is most probably hugely exaggerated. While horrible incidents are known to happen, I'd hope the majority of people would only experience minimal amounts of bullying, if at all.
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Old 2012-06-09, 17:50   Link #309
-Kuroko-
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Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
I'm currently reading Utopia, and something with this chapter just doesn't sit right with me. Children are being portrayed as irrationally cruel in this chapter, and even for the teacher to join into the bullying.....

I mean, I haven't actually experienced anything like this in my school life, so it seems a bit unnatural to me, but is bullying such a big problem in Japan or anything, or is Ryukishi just pulling all of that out of his head?
I was bullied in school and I can confirm R07 is not exaggerating anything at all, chapter 7 was very painful for me because of how realistic it was, some children and teenagers are extremely cruel.. that's a reality.

Spoiler for chapter 7 ending:
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Old 2012-06-09, 21:24   Link #310
Corfish1001
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My main PC blew up, so I haven't been able to read Higanbana, so I don't have any comments on anything past 4, but I can confirm that Ryukishi isn't really exaggerating about the bullying. I was bullied to extent in school, and looking on it had I not had the internet (which was honestly my saving grace), I don't know where I would be now. I don't think I would've chosen an answer like murder or suicide, but these are answers that many bullied kids come to. And yes, teachers join in on the bullying, or outright ignore it often. I've seen it in my own schools. Most bullying is the kind in Hameln's Castanets
Spoiler for Chapter 5, early on:


I know it's hard to fathom if you haven't been bullied yourself, but yeah, this happens, and far too often. Again, like I said, Japan in particular has an extremely high teenage suicide rate, so it's probably something Ryukishi sees in the news often. I don't think we see it as often in America, though it's not uncommon to hear of teens committing suicide because they were bullied for being gay.

Try not to think of them as exaggerated, because they honestly aren't. Just search google for news articles on the issue, you'll find more than you think.
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Old 2012-06-09, 23:23   Link #311
cronnoponno
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Much of the bullying in Hameln's Castanets was kinda instigated by himself.





I'm surprised no one thinks that
Spoiler for Ep 7 moment:


The rest of the bullying in this story, I can completely understand, but that spoiler is the one thing I simply cannot fathom seeing in any real school, and even if it did happen, it would not happen without consequence. I'm not sure how the media works in Japan, probably wouldn't make such a big deal about it, but if that happened over here, parents would be calling for those kids heads on a platter. I mean, I'm sure many of the readers were very happy to see them die horrible deaths by falling off a bridge on a bus.


EDIT:

Spoiler for Further argument.:

Last edited by cronnoponno; 2012-06-10 at 00:31.
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Old 2012-06-10, 03:53   Link #312
Captain Bluebeard
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Originally Posted by cronnoponno View Post
I'm surprised no one thinks that
Spoiler for Ep 7 moment:
Just got to that part.
Spoiler for Chapter 7:


Having finished this chapter, I must say it was my least favorite from the First Night. Maybe that's mostly because I couldn't completely sympathize with the situations it presented, since the worst I've ever experienced in my school life was having nasty rumors spread about me, but those can't get to you if you don't give a shit, plus I never witnessed anything of the sort happen in my class so all of it seemed a bit unrealistic.

Well, as many above posts say, it really isn't that exaggerated, and I'm not as naive to the point that I can't understand people can make such asses of themselves, but another part I really don't get, is why would get that agitated just by an occassional abssence of their victim. I mean, shouldn't bullies normally think of their victim as worthless and look down on them rather than completely depend on them as an outlet for their rage?

Bottom line is, I didn't think this was a bad chapter, especially since
Spoiler for Chapter 7:
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Old 2012-06-10, 04:03   Link #313
-Kuroko-
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but another part I really don't get, is why would get that agitated just by an occassional abssence of their victim.
That was because of Sumire's power, she turned people into 'bullying junkies' Marie realized how unnatural was that behavior and started investigating
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Old 2012-06-10, 04:05   Link #314
Captain Bluebeard
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Gosh, I hated Sumire...But I totally adored her awesome troll faces.
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Old 2012-06-10, 04:30   Link #315
Yirba
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Well, chapters 1-6 I can understand, but I think chapter 7 is extremely exaggerated. And I think it's exaggerated that all these incidents are occurring in the same school. That's what I was getting at.
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Old 2012-06-11, 02:35   Link #316
unsuspectingvisitor
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I started reading this game recently and it's pretty good. I finished reading chapter 1 and now half way through chapter 2. This isn't a thinking game i know but there's something that doesn't quite right, even if this is a supernatural story.
Spoiler for Chapter 1:
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Old 2012-06-11, 03:09   Link #317
RedKey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
Spoiler for Chapter 1:
Spoiler for cha1:
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Old 2012-06-11, 03:52   Link #318
st_nick5
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I personally think everyone's reading too much into it. It's a supernatural, it doesn't have any mysteries to solve like Umineko. I really enjoyed reading it. Can't wait for the Second Night.
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Old 2012-06-12, 04:41   Link #319
unsuspectingvisitor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKey View Post
Spoiler for cha1:

Spoiler for Chapter 1:


Quote:
Originally Posted by st_nick5 View Post
I personally think everyone's reading too much into it. It's a supernatural, it doesn't have any mysteries to solve like Umineko. I really enjoyed reading it. Can't wait for the Second Night.
Spoiler for :

Last edited by unsuspectingvisitor; 2012-06-12 at 04:55.
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Old 2012-06-12, 05:17   Link #320
Yirba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
Spoiler for :
Spoiler:
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