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View Poll Results: Hyouka - Episode 17 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 36 | 42.35% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 35 | 41.18% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 9 | 10.59% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 2 | 2.35% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 2.35% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 1.18% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-08-13, 10:12 | Link #61 |
Awakened One
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Italy
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Tomoe is the Mycroft to Houtaro's Sherlock. She probably bought "A corpse by evening" at last year's Kanya Festival (she is an alumni of that school after all). However it was a bit too convenient that she had the doujinshi with her.
As for Mayaka's situation, I think the bullying will stop. The Vocaloid cosplayers are just Kouchi's cronies. If sempai tells them that she made peace with Mayaka, they won't bully her anymore. I'd love to see the manga club again in a future episode. I also like to believe that Kugayama got the message from Tanabe. The president said "Good job" specifically to Tanabe after mentioning the Juumoji incident to the crowd. At the very least he guessed the "culprit". Anyway, a really fantastic conclusion to the best arc in Hyouka. I loved how all the various subplots came together under the common theme of "expectations". Not a single scene in this arc was wasted. Bravo KyoAni!
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2012-08-13, 10:42 | Link #63 | |||
Senior Member
Author
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I never wrote, or implied, that you didn't.
I wrote that I think that you might be putting it too strongly. In other words, I don't think that I fully agree with you. Quote:
These leaders are entrusted with powers and responsibilities that the average person doesn't have. Hierarchies (which have inherent inequality) often, if not typically, also come into play. The leader is expected to generally reflect the norms and traditions of the society that s/he arises within, but s/he's also entrusted in shaping/evolving those norms and traditions to at least some degree. Leaders are somewhat limited by cultural norms, traditions, and laws, but not entirely so. Quote:
Society is not founded on egalitarianism, imo. It respects egalitarianism to a degree, just like it respects individualism to a degree, but that is all. Quote:
Did Mayaka and Satoshi seem all that unhappy in the final scene of this episode? Sure, there's some sadness there, but I don't think I'd call it melancholic.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-08-13 at 10:58. |
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2012-08-13, 10:47 | Link #64 |
a random Indonesian otaku
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xanadu
Age: 32
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so..... this 'expectation arc' finally get its conclusion....
this inferiority's feeling between the players are very huge.... Chitanda - Iris Fukube - Houtarou Ibara's senpai - Anjou Haruna Vice president Tanabe - President Kugayama Mayaka and Satoshi also have some development in their relationship.... I think I can imagine some scene after Mayaka try to comfort Fukube.. xD and Houtarou... you're awesome... xD I just can't believe all of this stuffs are started because they want to sell overprinted anthologies neatly done! |
2012-08-13, 16:04 | Link #66 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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This was a very disappointing conclusion to the arc.
They really wanted to push out this idea about the genius who us common people always have to look up to and feel inadequate to in comparison, and that sometimes this genius may not even like using their talents that much for a specific task. The arc came down to this same realization on three different fronts: Oreki with the student council President who wanted his friend to keep working on the manga, Mayaka's senpai who could never make as good as manga as her friend, and of course Satoshi with the fact that he feels he could never match Oreki. Sorry but really? We waited all these episodes for this? On a narrative level I just find this a tad underwhelming. I appreciated the development of Satoshi in this arc very much, it was lovely seeing his outer exterior crack a little bit in the face of his jealousy. However, having the entire arc be about the same thing to me was just a bit too redundant for my own liking. I also have a sense of being led around by the nose by Mayaka's character arc. She gets treated like crap, and then it ends like that? I don't really see any meaningful growth on her front when initially I thought it might be going somewhere more interesting. Just not a terribly interesting turn of events. Not going to even get started on how stupid the conclusion to Chitanda's little character arc was either. Yeah mark Kanya festival as the second worst arc after EBA.
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2012-08-13, 19:36 | Link #67 | |
likes cute things
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Searching for more imoutos
Age: 43
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Quote:
Mayaka's arc had some interesting happenings but felt cut short. I'm hoping there would be some sort of continuation to conclude her character development (even if it's only her by herself thinking), otherwise, it would just look like some sort of filler. But um ya... Chitanda... What was the point in all that? It probably could've had some meaning, but maybe it was just executed poorly? She doesn't need to know how to persuade people like Irisu... She already has her own effective way of doing that _without_ making the other party feel like shit. |
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2012-08-13, 22:35 | Link #69 | |
❤Ichigo 100%❤
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Quote:
Mayaka x Fuka-chan!
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2012-08-14, 00:28 | Link #70 | |
Orthodox Haruhiist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Making metal ... for fish
Age: 44
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Quote:
As it turns out, Mayaka can't find A Corpse By Evening, but does find another one called Body Talk, which she thinks is good as well, and still many levels above hers. When she tells Kouchi that she couldn't find A Corpse By Evening, Kouchi's friends suggest that Mayaka was just doing an ass-pull to get them off her back. Kouchi tells her friends that if they hadn't heard of the work, then they should kindly STFU. At the end of the arc, Mayaka ends up borrowing Oreki's copy of A Corpse By Evening, and she brings it to Kouchi. As it turns out, she already had a copy of the work, and she kindof agrees with Mayaka about the nature of masterpieces . . . so much so that she stopped reading A Corpse By Evening halfway through and buried it at the back of her closet so she'd never have to see it again, and so she could be in denial about the nature of masterpieces. Kouchi reveals that she knew the writer of A Corpse By Evening, and felt a substantial inferiority complex toward the writer . . . since the writer was not a big fan of manga . . . and yet, the writer came up with a masterpiece manga as her very first (and as far as she knew only) entry in the field. While doing this, she sketches some graffiti on the rail. Kouchi, obviously distraught, tells Mayaka that she refuses to read A Corpse By Evening, because then she'd be overwhelmed by how OMG AWESOME it is, and she'd be eagerly awaiting more work from the writer . . . which isn't going to ever happen. After Kouchi leaves, Mayaka looks at the doodle on the rail, and realizes that it's the logo from the back of Body Talk. The same manga that she'd previously asserted that, while not the masterpiece that A Corpse By Evening was, it was still "a hundred levels" above her work. It then hits her that she'd been debating about masterpieces with a girl whose own work was significantly better than her's . . . a girl so crushed by a non-fan manga genius that she's retreated to the safety of denial. In other words, she'd fought with a girl who'd already fought the same battle over masterpieces, talents, innate talents, and expectations that those of lesser talent hold of those of greater talent, lost miserably, and was still light-years ahead of where Mayaka was. It's a realization that does bad things to her feelings of self-worth.
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2012-08-14, 00:41 | Link #71 | ||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
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That's a large part of why I took one point off from this episode actually. I think the talent theme was not really wrapped up. The show presented the issue but didn't present a solution. OK, life is unfair, but now how are they going to live with it? It is likely that it was intentional though. From this arc which is from Satoshi's point of view, Houtarou looks like he is at the top of the food chain. However, Houtarou has seen the higher sky himself in the form of his sister. We only have a couple episodes left so I don't have much hope, but I do want to see this get explore more. The way I see this issue in real life is that people are different. While there are exceptions, they are not superior or inferior to one another, just different. What we (and the education system) should try is to find the thing that the individual is good at and develop it. |
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2012-08-14, 00:44 | Link #72 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
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@Reckoner
While I would agree with you that the ending was actually pretty meh(you have to admit the whole Juumonji thing was silly and it's no wonder it failed making the entire thing pointless) I won't say that this arc was outright bad. The middle parts were fun to watch IMO but yeah the end wasn't that good.
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2012-08-14, 01:45 | Link #73 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
And while Irisu's method made Houtarou feel like shit, it was mostly due to circumstances and Houtarou being a freak. In most cases, a girl having "expectations" of a guy will make him feel good, whether she overstates or understates some things or not. |
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2012-08-14, 02:23 | Link #74 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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i give 9/10 on this for the same reason of some guys(the unsolved bulling problem), and for the "houtaro hates" i think us are not looking to him on all directions, houtaro personality is a basico MC shell personalite(a variety of tsundere), he have obvious inferiority complex problems toward him big sister, this make him believe he's a "normal gray person who have almost no special life", this make him on this way toward othes person and for this come chitanda the person who he falls in love but is unable to accept this because accept her love gona make him totally break the "shell" who is the think he dont want for now, and for the ppls who claims "he only sexual interest on her" this not totally true infact he loves her the hints already showed: ep 1 when he first get caught by her hypnos eyes the scene showing the flowers and her hair growing, and first time he was not able to deny a request to someone ep2 again he was unable to say no to her and get grabed to all places by her easy ep 6 when chitanda play about saying "want to save energy" he see her like finaly find her angel/soulmate(just to be crushed when she says "was just kidding") ep7 is really more about "sexual interest" ep 11.5 was the most big hint of him love: when they get alone on the lunch time after satoshi and mayaka leaves, when him and chitanda start to talk and him talk about being important(because houtaro is the type of person who demands attention because he sister problem overshadowing him) and when she replay "who him need be important only to her(only she, the person that matters) he started to make a really good expression before she completed the sentence saying that others are also important after this his expression goes to normal, but she again say he is important to her, and after they ears the crying baby He speaks softly this can be really important for him(her happy). ep 15 when he get alone with mayaka and he confess who he can't say no to chitanda and mayaka notices houtaro feellings for chitanda the problem with houtaro is he is the type of person who need the others "to force him to goes out the shell", and about confession for now looks likes he "wants her does the first confession rater than him" because like the shell characters he's afraid of confesse to her and get broken or think he under her level's of expectation(and get rejected by the love person is even worse than be used) some of the times i pointed was clearly shown who whe wanted her really saying "i love you", this dont means who in the end he gona get the courage to confess first but for now he just trying to shine to the person whos care to trying to make her confess first. that is mine point ps srry for some bad english errors( at last not mine native language) |
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2012-08-14, 02:44 | Link #75 |
mechaii
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 44
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Just to be clear, are there people here that think Chitanda's googly eye effect was meant to literally depict some sort of supernatural power? I was under the impression that it was just a visual gag to make patent her earnestness and sincerity. All this time I thought people were kidding around with the hypno-toad references, but I'm not so sure anymore.
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2012-08-14, 02:47 | Link #76 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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Quote:
edit: and on the first ep when houtaro made a "case" about the spider club just to check how her "eyes powers works", was agood hint and she alse have almost superhuman(almost dogs levels) senses(ear the man working o the floor above then, smell the ink in the book and too afar from the painting club |
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2012-08-14, 07:07 | Link #77 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: With the runaways
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Quote:
Spoiler for For The sake of dear dear space:
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And, is it just me, or did houtaro show us his very first "real" smile?
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Last edited by alarmadadna hadi; 2012-08-14 at 07:23. |
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2012-08-14, 09:00 | Link #78 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Quote:
The solution here is that there is no solution. The only thing they can possibly do is to just suck it up and accept the reality. I could even view it as a sort of "rite of passage" that most aspiring youths undergo as they slowly become integrated into the clockwork of society. Life simply goes on from there, as each individual remains powerless against nature's fickle roulette wheel. That is the single realization I found in the episode that struck me as melancholic and somewhat bittersweet.
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2012-08-14, 09:43 | Link #79 |
(¬‿¬)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boyzone
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This isn't the first arc they've dealt with the whole talent/expectations stuff, and there are still four more episodes left. The series may have more to say on the matter yet, so I think it's a bit early to jump to conclusions with what Hyouka is trying to convey on this subject.
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2012-08-14, 09:55 | Link #80 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Quote:
The fact remains that this episode marks the end of a major arc and the final image it conveys goes a long way towards its interpretation as an arc. I'm not "jumping to conclusions" here. I'm looking at the entire arc as a whole and what it might have meant.
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