AnimeSuki Forums

dreamless · 2004-11-18, 00:37

I'd say if some losers want to pay for something they should be able to get for free, that's their problem. people can burn money or give it away to some jerks all they want I guess -_-

Fronzel · 2004-11-18, 00:37

They don't sell it, though.

K'9999 · 2004-11-18, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senpai

i just browsed thru ebay anime section and someone alrdy selling bleach epi 1-6

i guess some ppl are pretty desperate to buy sometihing they can get for free huh?

in case you wanna see for yourself heres the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...341571174&rd=1

Those who sell Bleach are cheaters. Those who buy are dumb. I feel sad to the buyers wasting money for free items.

NoSanninWa · 2004-11-18, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamless

I'd say if some losers want to pay for something they should be able to get for free, that's their problem. people can burn money or give it away to some jerks all they want I guess -_-

Quote:

Originally Posted by K'9999

Those who sell Bleach are cheaters. Those who buy are dumb. I feel sad to the buyers wasting money for free items.

I don't want to defend the practive of selling fansubs, but it is a common misconception that they are free.

Fansubs have a cost also. In the case of digisubs, they cost you your ISP fees. Some people have a limit on the amount they can download each month. Others can only upload a very little bit so that BitTorrent is difficult to use. Some places broadband is VERY expensive. Other people just spend so much time working that they can't be bothered finding and downloading episodes. Their time is too expensive to waste it downloading when they can simply slap down a bid on an auction.

Fansubs are NOT free. They require an investment of both money and time.

Consequently some people feel that it is cheaper to buy them on eBay. They are not wasting their money. For some people who are in countries that don't have any good broadband service, this is one of the only ways that they can get these episodes. That is not a waste of money.

There are many reasons that people should not sell fansubs, but price isn't one of them. Perhaps you should volunteer to mail CDs of Bleach for free to everyone that looses the bid on this auction if you disagree? You won't do it simply because it would take up both more time and money than you'd like to give away.

kujoe · 2004-11-18, 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Fansubs have a cost also. In the case of digisubs, they cost you your ISP fees. Some people have a limit on the amount they can download each month. Others can only upload a very little bit so that BitTorrent is difficult to use. Some places broadband is VERY expensive. Other people just spend so much time working that they can't be bothered finding and downloading episodes. Their time is too expensive to waste it downloading when they can simply slap down a bid on an auction.

How true. Fansubs have their indirect costs.

It won't be the first time I'll encounter a person who prefers to buy cheap bootleg vcds (which feature fansubs...) because he or she doesn't have access to broadband. Not to mention, that some people can't be bothered with the costs of broadband itself.

tanuki · 2004-11-18, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by K'9999

Those who sell Bleach are cheaters. Those who buy are dumb. I feel sad to the buyers wasting money for free items.

Some of the buyers may not know that what they are buying can be downloaded for free elsewhere. Even if the buyers were aware of where to go to download the episodes for any given series they might be interested in, for whatever reason there will be some who would rather buy a disk for a few bucks to get the anime that way.

Anyway, I hate arguing the case for the ebay sellers but I can understand what they are doing and why it's profitable for them to continue doing it. Those selling the disks are catering to a segment of anime fans that the fansub groups aren't able or willing to directly to reach. The only way I see this possibly changing is if the fansub groups around now are willing to do with anime on disk what was once done with anime on vhs tapes. Distro the disk themselves at a price that makes it unprofitable for others to sell their fansubs on ebay. If the profit margin all but disappears for the ebay sellers, they will probably move on to selling something else that they can make better money on.

NoSanninWa · 2004-11-18, 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanuki

The only way I see this possibly changing is if the fansub groups around now are willing to do with anime on disk what was once done with anime on vhs tapes. Distro the disk themselves at a price that makes it unprofitable for others to sell their fansubs on ebay. If the profit margin all but disappears for the ebay sellers, they will probably move on to selling something else that they can make better money on.

It's a nice idea, but it wouldn't work. I know this because fan's willingness to distro VHS tapes for cost didn't drive away tape piracy. I know people who spent some time getting super-cheap fansubbed tapes from fans and decided that it was better to buy them from pirates at a higher price. Pirates charged about $6 a tape while fans would do it if you sent them a SASE and a blank tape. Yet the pirates still flourished.

Why? Simple. Free tapes were very slow. They always had limits on how many you can request at a time (usually 2-3 tapes) and there was typically about a 3 month turn-around. (That means that a series of 26 episodes - 7 tapes - took at least 9 months to collect.) Pirates were eager to get all the orders that they could and they filled them as fast as possible. (You could get those same 7 tapes in only 1-2 months.) If you could find someone willing to fill all the orders he receives as fast as possible without making a cent on it... good luck.

Quite frankly you get what you pay for.

Sailor Enlil · 2004-11-18, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

There have been words coming out of licensing companies that they *might* switch to a region-free system if they can find a way to still deal with copyright issues. As it stands there isn't much to a region-code law, it's just for a way to control releases to certain countries.

As it stands, regions were put in place so commerical theatrical releases to home video on DVD could only be released and played in the country it was released in natively and which keeps people from selling/seeing/whatever say from the US before it was released in another country...I don't know how much longer they will plan on using the region system seeing as more and more and more region-free enabled DVD players become commonplace. And with the case of anime, there are only so many distributors for this genre, so the region system is holding them back. I'm pretty sure ADV would love to branch out to more places than R1 and R2-Europe, I'm sure quite a few of these licensors would love to get a global market outside of Japan for this...but what the problem entails is that if they were to go region-free then what would keep the Japanese people from going and buying a region-free DVD player (if they don't have one already) and buying what ADV releases instead of the commonly more expensive and of lesser episode quantity locally released DVDs?

It would be like reverse bootlegging in a sort-of legal way...so basically it's a catch 22 when it comes to the region system. It's to attempt to keep piracy from bootleggers down, but was defeated rather quickly...this could be a way to promote a global type of competition, but it could also mean it could drive up the total cost of anime. If a Japanese distributor cannot get the money from distributing the discs locally, then it's doubtful (even if paid for licensing fees) they would want another company outside of Japan to be their competitors with better products.

This is, of course, just my take on everything...and probably should be read while taking several grains of salt

The Region system is likely here to stay, considering how much say the MPAA has over video distribution. Do you know of the special DVD R1 The Patriot? It's a unique kind of DVD that refuses to play on Region-Free DVD players (so it can only play on R1 Players, or PC's with DVD-ROM drives whose DVD drive or DVD player software is set to R1). I for one would only hope Anime distributors won't fall under the MPAA's control.

This article has a rather grim opinon about the DVD Region system. Quite an interesting read.

http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/piracy-info.htm

Spoiler for the gist of it:

The Real reason for CSS!

The CSS system is not a copy protection system because it does not prevent copying. So what was it designed for? In short, to corner the market! The main reasons are twofold, first to ensure that DVD prices are always as high as possible in every country and secondly to monopolize the DVD player market.

Let's take the first reason: to keep prices high. The CSS system uses region codes, these are:

Zone 1: United States, Canada
Zone 2: Europe, UK, Japan, South Africa, Middle East, Greenland
Zone 3: Hong Kong, East & Southeast Asia
Zone 4: Australia, Pacific Islands, New Zealand, South America, Caribbean
Zone 5: Russia, Indian Subcontinent, North Korea, Africa, Mongolia
Zone 6: China

These zones prevent anyone from importing DVD's from other countries, because unless the DVD CSS region code is set for that country the DVD will not play! Since the MPAA usually control the release of movies so that they are released half a year later to the rest of Europe than they are in the USA, they are able to control the prices people pay for their movies.

Believe it or not we are actually being charged much more than a DVD costs after normal profit margins. In fact DVD production is quicker and easier than the old VHS tape! So, instead of giving people a fair deal they want to charge them as much as they think they will pay. This means poorer countries, such as India, are only charged a fraction of the price the rest of Europe are. Unless a CSS encryption system was incorporated into the DVDs it would be possible for someone in Europe to import a load of Indian DVDs and not need to pay the extra money! Such price fixing practices are known as 'price discrimination' and are considered illegal according to U.S. and international law. But if the movie industry can convince the world that CSS is only to stop PC pirates then this smokescreen would prevent anyone from noticing it!

Not only are the European DVDs more expensive to buy but the quality is often much less than the original USA versions. They are often either bad conversions or without many (or any) extra features. Normally I'd urge you to combat this trend by buying only region free DVD Players to play your DVD CD's. Region free DVD players can play any region of DVD and ignore region codes completely. But this is a little more complicated nowadays!

Since manufacturers have been trying to make region free "world" zone DVD players the whole movie industry is trying to force them to stop. One new trick is to make use of the CSS properties again. I've never seen a DVD like this, but apparently when you put these new type of DVD CDs in your 'region free DVD player', the CSS code sends all region codes to it at once. If the DVD player accepts them all then the CSS mechanism will stop it from playing! If the player rejects all but one then it will continue to play. This means that it would be impossible to play any of these new DVDs in a region free DVD player! In short, you may find that buying a region free DVD player results in you not being able to play any DVD!

This whole marketing scam alone is destined to give rise to greater DVD piracy (if it exists yet) because people always want to get a copy of the newest releases from America. Movie piracy would be cut very dramatically if all movies came out everywhere at the same time! The prices would be cheaper and people would not see the need to buy them from pirates. The only common pirate movies then would be those taken from the conspicuous people in the dark raincoats who sneak into the cinema to record the movie before it comes out. And even then, if people did get these pirate movies, they'd still want the high quality DVD when it came out. So that is the first reason that DVDs have the CSS code.

auriya · 2004-11-22, 18:35

I hope this is in the right forum; it's sort of a weird question. You see, I've been thinking of buying the Fruits Basket DVD box set, and, pinchpenny that I am, I was surprised and happy to find a very cheap version selling for about $35. However, this version is, according to the seller, an import and consists of 3 DVDs rather than four; it does have both English and Japanese tracks and it is supposedly brand new.

Since the price is so much lower, and since it's coming from an individual seller over the internet, and since it's apparently not the Funimation version...I'm a bit worried about purchasing it.

Has anyone viewed the 3-DVD box set version of Fruits Basket? What are the differences in quality, if any?

I don't mind if it doesn't have a dub; I am mainly concerned about whether the image/sound quality is lower, or whether the English sub translation is bad.

Thanks for your help.

Mr_Paper · 2004-11-22, 18:46

It is a bootleg, the official version is only 4 DVDs.

The version your being sold on is a bootleg or more accurately a rip of the FUNimation release. FUNimation was really pushing it when they released 6 episodes per disc, the people that ripped it have put 8 episodes onto each disc so it will suffer some loss of quality.

Although double the price, I'd suggest getting the recently released boxset for the series instead.

zrdb · 2004-11-26, 19:06

I prefer to stay away from the whole hkdvd vs. domestic anime release debate. I do belive in the old maxim "You get what you pay for". I know all about the "how do you spot a bootleg" procedure. So cravet emptor guys. (Latin for "Let the buyer beware").

Avenger · 2004-11-27, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiQuid|J

No one will ever convince me to even look at another HK bootleg for as long as I live. I saw a few episodes of GTO and Hunter x hunter on bootleg and I wanted to cry because the subtitles were so bad. I'll stick to fansubs and professionally localized anime. Thanks.

Hey, i have to agree the hunter x hunter series subtitles were bad...BUT they got better

. Try looking at the Greed Island Set or Greed Island Final, they really ship shaped up

zrdb · 2004-11-27, 21:02

I have seen some hkdvds with subs so bad they made me want to cry. By the same token I've seen some R1's that had really bad subs too. But subs don't really matter to me cause I prefer dubs to subs whenever I have the choice.

Pado · 2004-12-14, 20:59

I just saw this at yesasia http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept...nime/did-7448/

Gundam Seed Box set with jap/canto dub, chinese/english sub, 18 dvd's, region 3, Publisher : Asia Video (HK).

It feels like a bootleg, since it has english subtitles which doesn't happen often with non-bootleg anime releases ....but it feels real too since it's on yesasia .......

and 18 dvd's for 50 eps is a bit .....

what do you guys think ?

Yebyosh · 2004-12-14, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pado

I just saw this at yesasia http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept...nime/did-7448/

Gundam Seed Box set with jap/canto dub, chinese/english sub, 18 dvd's, region 3, Publisher : Asia Video (HK).

It feels like a bootleg, since it has english subtitles which doesn't happen often with non-bootleg anime releases ....but it feels real too since it's on yesasia .......

and 18 dvd's for 50 eps is a bit .....

what do you guys think ?

That is an official R3 licensed product of Hong Kong. It is supposed to be for distribution within Hong Kong only ( just like how the Japan R2's are supposed to be for Japan only, R3 Taiwan for Taiwan only, etc ), which is also why you will be unable to redeem that poster offer if you get this. Yesasia however accepts orders and ships internationally without discrimination...

Pado · 2004-12-15, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yebyosh

That is an official R3 licensed product of Hong Kong. It is supposed to be for distribution within Hong Kong only ( just like how the Japan R2's are supposed to be for Japan only, R3 Taiwan for Taiwan only, etc ), which is also why you will be unable to redeem that poster offer if you get this. Yesasia however accepts orders and ships internationally without discrimination...

ic that's nice

... the question now is ........ are the english subs any good ?? :P:P ....

would this be a better choice then getting the Gundam Seed DVD's released by Bandai ?? the main difference is that bandai has english dub and Asia Video cantonese dub .. I understand both languages though ;o

Yebyosh · 2004-12-18, 11:53

While I was at the shops today, I was stunned to see a box with the Shingetsutan Tsukehime characters on the shelf. It was even labelled Import Region 1.

However I would never if possible, buy titles from this shop. The reason being primarily that this local shop sells bootlegs ( and something on the box that is blatantly suspicious to me ). Yes, it is a bootleg I am seeing stacked on the shelf.

The box is titled "Get from the Blue Moon" or something ( I remember distinctly the Blue Moon ending ). The characters on display are Arcueid and Ciel. The box is a cardboard foldout with plastic holders. The more shocking elements are the R1 marking on the back of the box. This box comes with Chinese and English subtitles, and only Japanese audio.

The bootleggers are evolving now and they have studied the markets. They know that the English speakers are becoming a big customer of theirs and hence is moving their focus towards the R1 market. They are lying to the consumers in claiming legibility. I also saw Gungrave on the shelves in this format.

The old ways of identifying bootleggers are becoming irrelevant these days with the changes the bootleggers do these days.

All the following indications:
- All-Region
- Chinese and English subs
- Cheap packing
are useless or non-applicable, as legal products do have these traits.

I believe the only obvious thing left that will confirm a bootleg is :
- the printing of the company's contact information and physical address on the back of the box and it belongs to a specific self-owned domain.

So beware if you intend to purchase an official product off the web in the future. Insist on knowing who produce the product marketed to you and for the contact information. If the seller is unable to provide you with it or unwilling to, very, very likely the product is a bootleg.

Beware!

Pado · 2004-12-18, 19:25

thanks for your advice ~~~, but I know that very well too

.

Right now i'm only doubting wether the english subs are good or not ;o ...

After some searching I've been able to confirm that Asia Video (HK) is a legal company (that exists :P.) I don't think yesasia will use fake publisher names anyway ... so that's alright ;o + nobody is selling it on ebay ;o ....

And after some searching I've been able to find other sites selling it too:

http://www5.cd-wow.com/detail_result...6e94bb1c73604f

http://www5.cd-wow.com/detail_result...uct_code=15444

http://www.goodswell.com/bin/miva?Me...ategory_Code=A

...... I guess I will see what it is after I bought it ..... the HK publishing industry must be going downwards if they sell dvd's with engrish in it :P :P

elniro · 2004-12-19, 05:57

People who buy bootlegs cos its much cheaper, thats one advantage, but then you get the quality you paid for, with cheap bootlegs you get cheap quality. They have awful subtitling and sometimes have other issues such as sound and colour.

I never knew what bootlegs were till i bought a one piece box and the quality was rubbish, i asked about it on the net and i found out about bootlegs that way.

Miko · 2004-12-29, 03:30

I did a search on animesuki "real fake dvd" and didnt get anything that i needed (unless i missed it somehow which is a possibility)

I was wondering:

I read/heard that most real japanese anime dvds (region 2 correct?) usually dont have english subtitle options and not sapose to have chinese subs?

Second question - Can someone give me a legit site that i can order authentic japanese anime from? (there are a few animes that i have in my collection that I extremely love and would like to collect in the original format)

I'm sure there are some hardcore people like me on here right?

in advance thank you for reading and for your help.

2004-11-22, 18:35	Link #269
auriya Member Join Date: Jul 2004	Fruits Basket DVD question (is this a bootleg?) I hope this is in the right forum; it's sort of a weird question. You see, I've been thinking of buying the Fruits Basket DVD box set, and, pinchpenny that I am, I was surprised and happy to find a very cheap version selling for about $35. However, this version is, according to the seller, an import and consists of 3 DVDs rather than four; it does have both English and Japanese tracks and it is supposedly brand new. Since the price is so much lower, and since it's coming from an individual seller over the internet, and since it's apparently not the Funimation version...I'm a bit worried about purchasing it. Has anyone viewed the 3-DVD box set version of Fruits Basket? What are the differences in quality, if any? I don't mind if it doesn't have a dub; I am mainly concerned about whether the image/sound quality is lower, or whether the English sub translation is bad. Thanks for your help.

2004-12-29, 03:30	Link #280
Miko Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003	Real or Fake Anime DVD I did a search on animesuki "real fake dvd" and didnt get anything that i needed (unless i missed it somehow which is a possibility) I was wondering: I read/heard that most real japanese anime dvds (region 2 correct?) usually dont have english subtitle options and not sapose to have chinese subs? Second question - Can someone give me a legit site that i can order authentic japanese anime from? (there are a few animes that i have in my collection that I extremely love and would like to collect in the original format) I'm sure there are some hardcore people like me on here right? in advance thank you for reading and for your help.

2004-11-18, 00:37	Link #261
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	I'd say if some losers want to pay for something they should be able to get for free, that's their problem. people can burn money or give it away to some jerks all they want I guess -_-

2004-11-18, 00:37	Link #262
Fronzel Schmuck Join Date: Nov 2003	They don't sell it, though.

2004-11-22, 18:46	Link #270
Mr_Paper Hmm... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Looking for his book...	It is a bootleg, the official version is only 4 DVDs. The version your being sold on is a bootleg or more accurately a rip of the FUNimation release. FUNimation was really pushing it when they released 6 episodes per disc, the people that ripped it have put 8 episodes onto each disc so it will suffer some loss of quality. Although double the price, I'd suggest getting the recently released boxset for the series instead.

2004-11-26, 19:06	Link #271
zrdb I'm Under Arrest!! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Huh? Didn't know I had to be somewhere.......	I prefer to stay away from the whole hkdvd vs. domestic anime release debate. I do belive in the old maxim "You get what you pay for". I know all about the "how do you spot a bootleg" procedure. So cravet emptor guys. (Latin for "Let the buyer beware").

2004-11-27, 21:02	Link #273
zrdb I'm Under Arrest!! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Huh? Didn't know I had to be somewhere.......	I have seen some hkdvds with subs so bad they made me want to cry. By the same token I've seen some R1's that had really bad subs too. But subs don't really matter to me cause I prefer dubs to subs whenever I have the choice.

2004-12-14, 20:59	Link #274
Pado Tensai Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The Holy Land Age: 38	I just saw this at yesasia http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept...nime/did-7448/ Gundam Seed Box set with jap/canto dub, chinese/english sub, 18 dvd's, region 3, Publisher : Asia Video (HK). It feels like a bootleg, since it has english subtitles which doesn't happen often with non-bootleg anime releases ....but it feels real too since it's on yesasia ....... and 18 dvd's for 50 eps is a bit ..... what do you guys think ?

2004-12-18, 11:53	Link #277
Yebyosh 冤枉的小狗 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: South East Asia	While I was at the shops today, I was stunned to see a box with the Shingetsutan Tsukehime characters on the shelf. It was even labelled Import Region 1. However I would never if possible, buy titles from this shop. The reason being primarily that this local shop sells bootlegs ( and something on the box that is blatantly suspicious to me ). Yes, it is a bootleg I am seeing stacked on the shelf. The box is titled "Get from the Blue Moon" or something ( I remember distinctly the Blue Moon ending ). The characters on display are Arcueid and Ciel. The box is a cardboard foldout with plastic holders. The more shocking elements are the R1 marking on the back of the box. This box comes with Chinese and English subtitles, and only Japanese audio. The bootleggers are evolving now and they have studied the markets. They know that the English speakers are becoming a big customer of theirs and hence is moving their focus towards the R1 market. They are lying to the consumers in claiming legibility. I also saw Gungrave on the shelves in this format. The old ways of identifying bootleggers are becoming irrelevant these days with the changes the bootleggers do these days. All the following indications: - All-Region - Chinese and English subs - Cheap packing are useless or non-applicable, as legal products do have these traits. I believe the only obvious thing left that will confirm a bootleg is : - the printing of the company's contact information and physical address on the back of the box and it belongs to a specific self-owned domain. So beware if you intend to purchase an official product off the web in the future. Insist on knowing who produce the product marketed to you and for the contact information. If the seller is unable to provide you with it or unwilling to, very, very likely the product is a bootleg. Beware!

2004-12-18, 19:25	Link #278
Pado Tensai Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The Holy Land Age: 38	thanks for your advice ~~~, but I know that very well too . Right now i'm only doubting wether the english subs are good or not ;o ... After some searching I've been able to confirm that Asia Video (HK) is a legal company (that exists :P.) I don't think yesasia will use fake publisher names anyway ... so that's alright ;o + nobody is selling it on ebay ;o .... And after some searching I've been able to find other sites selling it too: http://www5.cd-wow.com/detail_result...6e94bb1c73604f http://www5.cd-wow.com/detail_result...uct_code=15444 http://www.goodswell.com/bin/miva?Me...ategory_Code=A ...... I guess I will see what it is after I bought it ..... the HK publishing industry must be going downwards if they sell dvd's with engrish in it :P :P

2004-12-19, 05:57	Link #279
elniro Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London, UK!! Age: 36	People who buy bootlegs cos its much cheaper, thats one advantage, but then you get the quality you paid for, with cheap bootlegs you get cheap quality. They have awful subtitling and sometimes have other issues such as sound and colour. I never knew what bootlegs were till i bought a one piece box and the quality was rubbish, i asked about it on the net and i found out about bootlegs that way.