Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[z3phyr01]

The art is really getting ridiculously bad. I loved the adult A-tan's character design during the greece arc SOOOOOOO much, especially the eyes and the long hair. Such elegance and beauty, even compared with those visual novel game characters. Coupled with her ojou-sama, slight tsundere yet caring + genius + esoteric background, she's like my dream fantasy princess.

In fact, I only continued following this manga with the hope that she will be back as a main and serious contender in the harem. Even if the final pairing is obvious, just seeing the interactions and conflicts would be enough. Apparently not, now that Hata is seemingly trying to pair her with the brother or put her back in child form for another 100 chapters or so seeing that the timer is only 10 mins. Plus the worsening art, I am seriously considering dropping this manga. Ah well what did I really expect from this... I hope the end of the world arc gets a good movie so I can end things with a good note.

[Sol Falling]

I dunno, I'm not sure at all that Hata would go so far as to conveniently force Athena onto a separate love interest. To do so would be basically character assassination. As far as male presences beside Athena aside from Hayate, Machina has always been present; if Hata wanted to let Athena bow out of the romantic race gracefully, he had a safe/straightforward option from the start. Allowing a character to so trivially change the subject of their stated affections, conversely, accomplishes nothing but to damage the self-respect of the character.

Above all, a particular distaste I hold towards shippers and authors is the male-centric delusion that 'gratitude' ought to equal 'love'. I've seen such storylines (or fan interpretations) in any number of with shounen series, but have to this point not had to worry that HnG counted among them. It will be a great disappointment to me as to the quality of HnG's writing if Hata really does something as unimaginative as making Athena transfer her love from Hayate thanks to Ikusa freeing her from the Royal Garden.

[madmac]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I dunno, I'm not sure at all that Hata would go so far as to conveniently force Athena onto a separate love interest. To do so would be basically character assassination. As far as male presences beside Athena aside from Hayate, Machina has always been present; if Hata wanted to let Athena bow out of the romantic race gracefully, he had a safe/straightforward option from the start. Allowing a character to so trivially change the subject of their stated affections, conversely, accomplishes nothing but to damage the self-respect of the character.

Above all, a particular distaste I hold towards shippers and authors is the male-centric delusion that 'gratitude' ought to equal 'love'. I've seen such storylines (or fan interpretations) in any number of with shounen series, but have to this point not had to worry that HnG counted among them. It will be a great disappointment to me as to the quality of HnG's writing if Hata really does something as unimaginative as making Athena transfer her love from Hayate thanks to Ikusa freeing her from the Royal Garden.

Oh I dunno, whatever happens I don't expect it will be as simplistic as that. (I don't even read this chapter as Athena having "switched targets" or whatever, just a "hmmm, I could see this going somewhere.")

Regarding Athena though, I'm not really understanding why she's expected to be forever devoted to Hayate alone? She did dump the guy several months ago. Hidden motives and noble sacrifice and all, but still. She hasn't actually declared for Hayate or made any particular effort to pursue him since they broke up in Mykonos.

Hayate, likewise, has been steadily drifting in the direction of "How do I learn to move on from the past and start over with someone else?" I don't see why that's fine for him but Athena is required to be eternally faithful to her tragic memories of him.

That said, if Athena is suddenly all lovey-dovey towards Ikusa next week, then yeah that would be dumb. I don't expect it to happen though.

As an aside, I've never even considered pairing Athena with Machina. She treats him like a pet. If anything I could see him with Sakuya but even that would be very strange. He just doesn't seem mature enough for romance.

[z3phyr01]

No one's gonna say anything about the art? Personally, I think a-tan's dress looks weird without the sleeves and of course I prefer the previous eyes. But the latest few chapters have seriously lousy and slipshod art. Like they took an extended golden week break and not putting in effort at all.....

[AstroNerdBoy]

I do not for an instant believe that Athena has a torch for Ikusa. If anything, she still carries a torch for Hayate. That being said, it is only natural and logical that the man who saved her from the pit of despair and hopelessness, but vanished before she could thank him would be someone that her reunion with to thank him would be an emotional one. I've seen similar incidents of where someone who had their life saved by another is reunited with that person years later and it is a very emotional experience for the person who's life was saved.

Originally Posted by z3phyr01

The art is really getting ridiculously bad. I loved the adult A-tan's character design during the greece arc SOOOOOOO much, especially the eyes and the long hair. Such elegance and beauty, even compared with those visual novel game characters. Coupled with her ojou-sama, slight tsundere yet caring + genius + esoteric background, she's like my dream fantasy princess.

I haven't been a fan of the current character designs for quite a while now. Unfortunately, he shifted to a very simplistic character design, which makes it easier on him. However, the result of that means that characters loose a great deal of their attractiveness and some of their personality that comes with that change in character design. Look at Ikusa from the recycled flashback art to Ikusa in the new flashback art and his present day look. There's a lot more personality in his old character design.

When Yukariko was introduced, she looked like a very interesting character without having said much of anything. Now, she looks "meh," same as Athena and the rest. Hata-sensei hasn't totally removed all of the personality traits from characters, but a lot of the personality elements are gone in favor of simplicity (and speed).

Originally Posted by madmac

Regarding Athena though, I'm not really understanding why she's expected to be forever devoted to Hayate alone? She did dump the guy several months ago. Hidden motives and noble sacrifice and all, but still. She hasn't actually declared for Hayate or made any particular effort to pursue him since they broke up in Mykonos.

I just reread those chapters. After reading 266, it seemed to me that Athena merely set Hayate free to make his own choice and not force him into a situation. Hayate clearly had feelings for Athena there and the way Athena did it, he was rejected. However, Athena's words to Nagi upon returning the hat could be interpreted as her saying, "I'm returning Hayate to you this time, but I may not do so next time."

Further, although Athena told Hayate that she was not returning to Japan, that's in fact exactly what she did. She was planning the return to Japan before Aika gave her the King's Jewel. Her being turned into a child as a result of the curse was something unforeseen, but she did return to Japan just the same.

In chapter 300, when she paid Hayate a visit during her brief time as an adult, she had to hug him even though she didn't have time for it. That tells me she still loves Hayate. I thought that both in chapter 300 and 301, Hayate showed he still had feelings for Athena and cared about her deeply.

That said, if Athena is suddenly all lovey-dovey towards Ikusa next week, then yeah that would be dumb. I don't expect it to happen though.

Nor do I.

Originally Posted by z3phyr01

No one's gonna say anything about the art? Personally, I think a-tan's dress looks weird without the sleeves and of course I prefer the previous eyes. But the latest few chapters have seriously lousy and slipshod art. Like they took an extended golden week break and not putting in effort at all.....

It does come and go. Even when the art and character designs are improved, they still pale in comparison to how the art was. Even during the Golden Week arc, the art had just started to slip towards the end of it.

[araragi92]

Spoiler for Hata's tweet:

Hata still want to live

[Lisemer]

Originally Posted by araragi92

Spoiler for Hata's tweet:

Hata still want to live

Is he saying that it won't become a NTR scenario with A-tan confessing to Ikusa or some strange stuff like that?

[Seitsuki]

"Why does it seem like Athena likes Ikusa? Won't you stop the NTR. Please don't make Athena into a bitch character."

"Thanks. But that's not actually happening."

I don't even know why these kinds of tweets are taken seriously.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Apparently, some Japanese fans thought that Hata-sensei was doing a Ikusa-Athena ship, just like a lot of American fans did. The otaku take their manga and anime VERY seriously. ^_^

[Sean Gaffney]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Apparently, some Japanese fans thought that Hata-sensei was doing a Ikusa-Athena ship, just like a lot of American fans did. The otaku take their manga and anime VERY seriously. ^_^

Which is why so many harem series these days don't make a choice.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Sean Gaffney

Which is why so many harem series these days don't make a choice.

Well, I don't think most harem series made choices back in the day either. With Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki, fans wanted Tenchi to end up with a specific girl, but the series creator wanted the choice to be a harem ended, because that's what he likes. Harem titles that followed weren't looking for a harem end, but purposefully left things so that shippers could ship the way they wanted.

Granted, there have always been exceptions to the rule. Love Hina had Keitaro eventually make a choice and marry her. Ai Yori Aoshi established the choice from the start, then built a harem around Kaoru by forcing him and Aoi to keep the choice secret.

I honestly expect Hata-sensei to have Hayate make a choice. I think that in the end, the choice will be Athena, but we'll see.

[GDB]

Oh please, the series has been screaming Nagi end for at least a third of its run now. I don't even like Nagi, but it's plain as day. Hata will force that pairing through no matter what.

[AstroNerdBoy]

And I haven't seen that, but that's just me.

[aldw]

If Hayate does end up with Athena then that would be the most perfect ending for this series, bar none.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by aldw

If Hayate does end up with Athena then that would be the most perfect ending for this series, bar none.

This!

And a couple of issues are still not resolved between Athena and Hayate.

Nagi seems to be out of the spotlight for a couple of arcs now (the Doujinshi arc is more Ruka).

[madmac]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

This!

And a couple of issues are still not resolved between Athena and Hayate.

Nagi seems to be out of the spotlight for a couple of arcs now (the Doujinshi arc is more Ruka).

Eh, it was about 50/50 Nagi/Ruka. Maybe even leaning towards Nagi. People just remember the Ruka chapters more because they were heavier on the personal and romance drama.

The Mykonos Arc is the one that really sidelined Nagi aside from giving her arguably the best spotlight moment when she broke the stone.

Athena has the spotlight right now but I can't imagine it'll last long with the timer she's on. She'll do just enough to move the plot along before she changes back.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by madmac

Athena has the spotlight right now but I can't imagine it'll last long with the timer she's on. She'll do just enough to move the plot along before she changes back.

I figure that Athena will not only change back to a kid, but she'll somehow be removed from the picture for a while, giving Hayate a purpose in finding her once again, and this time not letting her down to make up for abandoning her when they were children.

[madmac]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

I figure that Athena will not only change back to a kid, but she'll somehow be removed from the picture for a while, giving Hayate a purpose in finding her once again, and this time not letting her down to make up for abandoning her when they were children.

Hmm, I doubt it. The big looming plot on the horizon is with Hsui and the Sanzenin Inheritance and Athena is coming off more as a third actor with her own agenda. Just reverting her back to child form is enough to keep her presence from being too dominating.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

And I haven't seen that, but that's just me.

I don't see it either, but I've been in denial about such things before. To me, it's more about Hayate raising her (as much as a 16 year old can raise a 13 year old) than about romance, at least from his side. But in manga, those circumstances aren't as much a bar to relationships as I could wish.

[madmac]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't see it either, but I've been in denial about such things before. To me, it's more about Hayate raising her (as much as a 16 year old can raise a 13 year old) than about romance, at least from his side. But in manga, those circumstances aren't as much a bar to relationships as I could wish.

Honestly, I expect it will go the way these things usually go. Hayate won't see Nagi in a romantic light until nearly the end of the series, giving her time to grow and mature and probably conveniently turn 14 first. (It's no coincidence that her birthday is in early December.)

I am certain that Hayate will choose someone also, that's been clear with Hayate's "Will the day ever come again that I'll tell someone I truly love them?" from the Mykonos Arc that got carried over into the summer arc along with Hayate telling Ruka he expects he'll fall in love with someone eventually. (Meaning that he doesn't currently have that someone in mind, either.)

Anyway, 451 is out and fairly amusing. All things considered I'm just glad we're finally moving off the damn island. Some important events and all but it's been a long digression from the rest of the story/characters.