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Old 2015-06-05, 04:40   Link #61
omimon
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For those saying that Naru and Sasu should have performed better during this fight you need to remember that they were planning on capturing the enemies. They wanted information, not dead bodies, if they used even 0.1% of their full strength they would have turn them into dust.

I'll say that they were underestimating the enemy and not training during this period of peace.
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Old 2015-06-05, 05:30   Link #62
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
For those saying that Naru and Sasu should have performed better during this fight you need to remember that they were planning on capturing the enemies. They wanted information, not dead bodies, if they used even 0.1% of their full strength they would have turn them into dust.

I'll say that they were underestimating the enemy and not training during this period of peace.
So despite presumptively having a threat on the level of Kaguya they decided to throw away their trainings....I see

I'll say that is a pure bull... It's just a plot device to make the other part (enemies) looks capable of something
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Old 2015-06-05, 06:29   Link #63
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Don't have time to read the whole thread at the moment, so not sure if anyone else thought of this or not:

I'm curious whether his ability is actually controlling weapons, or if it's controlling his blood. The only ones we saw him control were his own weapons (easily coated) and Sasuke's katana (clearly cut his hand when grabbing it).

If it's his blood... Naruto and Sasuke could wind up being his puppets for a time, since both of them got cut by weapons covered in his blood.
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Old 2015-06-05, 06:53   Link #64
kampfer91
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Originally Posted by ChuckE View Post
So despite presumptively having a threat on the level of Kaguya they decided to throw away their trainings....I see

I'll say that is a pure bull... It's just a plot device to make the other part (enemies) looks capable of something
They only train because the need for war , now that the world is at peace , Naruto spend most of his time at Hokage office , even Tsunade didn't have much free time during her reign as Hokage .

Naruto worked hard to renovate the entire village , hell , they even gain access to Iphone and Laptop .

So it is understandable that his battle instinct may have been dulled over time .
I used to play Badminton very well , but now , i can't even hit properly after 5 years not practicing it .
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Old 2015-06-05, 07:08   Link #65
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Don't have time to read the whole thread at the moment, so not sure if anyone else thought of this or not:

I'm curious whether his ability is actually controlling weapons, or if it's controlling his blood. The only ones we saw him control were his own weapons (easily coated) and Sasuke's katana (clearly cut his hand when grabbing it).

If it's his blood... Naruto and Sasuke could wind up being his puppets for a time, since both of them got cut by weapons covered in his blood.
Isn't it whatever he puts the seal on? He has a seal on his hand...

It's like Hiraishin.
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Old 2015-06-05, 08:00   Link #66
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I don't think the fight was bad. Sasuke and Naruto don't seem like they did when they fought Madara, but they obviously weren't going 100% here. Naruto and Sasuke took a hit, big deal. Do you honestly believe they would've lost from that? The kyuubi wasn't even worried or worked up --the fox was lying down curled up like a house cat joking about the whole thing. We know how he looks when things are dire; I think alot of you are taking this too seriously. Every time a villain is introduced they're made to seem a bit more powerful than they really are --part of that is because their abilities take a bit of getting used to. I think you guys need to calm down a bit and read a few more chapters.

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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Well, that was the first really bad chapter of this gaiden. Only really good part was sakura's entrance; KO's the guy in one punch. Really she was the ONLY one of the 3 who actually seemed to be fighting at her full abilities...
Well it would make sense not to go all out if he intended to capture the enemy for questioning.

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I don't blame Naruto as much since he seemed to jsut want to hang back and keep the Sarada shielded, but Sasuke didn't use Half of the broken moves that he can pull. Like instead of a fireball, why not Amaratsu? Very deadly unkillable flame.
Why use something like that when a "regular" fireball will do just fine? The enemy that got hit with it was incapacitated, but not dead --sounds good if they want to get answers. But lets face it, had he used Amaterasu, the peanut gallery here would probably still complain about "MS spamming". I think non-amaterasu fire made sense with the kids being around, not to mention it wasn't needed. Its not like the enemy was a water type where Sasuke needed to use a special flame that's inextinguishable.

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Originally Posted by DerGilga View Post
-Naruto losing his chakra shroud:
Given that the shroud appeared when 12 years old Naruto had a hole in his lunge, I say rather unbelievable.
Whats so hard to believe about him no using extra energy to maintain the shroud? Perhaps hes putting that into healing himself?

Quote:
-Naruto being controlled by the weapons:
Naruto+Kyuubi couldn't be controlled by Nagato at point blank. The same Nagato who could mess with Sage chakra. Also rather unbelievable.
Where was Naruto controlled by weapons?

Quote:
-Sasuke not using Susanoo:
Why? Even when at first not taking his enemy serious, after what he saw what happened to Naruto, his secret love, there is no excuse.
Fine, he could have used Susanoo here, but I don't think its a big deal. A little variation is refreshing; its not like you guy haven't whined about being tired of seeing it.

Quote:
-Sasuke not using Shinra Tensei:
He can use the 6 path jutsus. He can use Chibaku Tensei, the ultimate jutus of Deva path. So him not being able to use it is rather unbelievable.
I'm not 100% convinced Sasuke can use this.

Quote:
-Sasuke not using summoning:
Remember the time when Sasuke summoned a boss lvl snake, genjutsued it, entered into its mouth and undone the summoning, while Deidara was exploding? Kishi doesn't.
Agreed; I think it would've been cool to use a few snakes to surround Sarada and block the daggers, like he did to himself when fighting Itachi. But again I think its just plot contrivance to add suspense, so I'm not taking it that seriously.

Quote:
-Sasuke being controlled by the weapons:
Why not use Susanoo to repel them, or Shinra Tensei. Also can somebody who has half of the chrakra of Rikudou sennin be controlled by a fodder?
We don't know how restricted his movements were or what he would've done had Sakura not appear --look what happened when Danzou restricted Sasuke's movements. He even asked Sakura why she was there --so its not like he seemed that relieved when she handled the enemy.

Last edited by Artful_Dodger; 2015-06-05 at 08:14.
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Old 2015-06-05, 09:34   Link #67
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^
About the shroud thing, you basically said, that Naruto would heal himself first and leave Salada unprotected, which I would find very out of character.
The list was actually just to show, how many established/hinted abilities Naruto and Sasuke have to deal with the situation. Them not using them and taking unnecessary harm to make the battle more 'intense' is the bad writing people complain about.
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Old 2015-06-05, 10:43   Link #68
Tactics
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Speaking about Shin ...

At previous chapter, he ordered his son to retreat because he saw his son wouldn't be able to match Naruto.
Now, he know Naruto and Sasuke were there yet have full confidence on confronting them just by two instead of using all of his clone army to guarantee better chance of victory; not even a sign of unease in front of two strongest ninja. His miscalculation is only Sakura, the reinforcement.

What's with that confidence? If we're assuming Shin know well about Naruto and Sasuke strength, does that mean he have some countermeasure on his sleeve hence attacking them or this ambush just a test battle for him despite the risk against two strongest ninja?

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Originally Posted by Artful_Dodger View Post
Agreed; I think it would've been cool to use a few snakes to surround Sarada and block the daggers, like he did to himself when fighting Itachi. But again I think its just plot contrivance to add suspense, so I'm not taking it that seriously.
During that time, Sasuke have Orochimaru inside him, granting ability to use snake. This time, no.

IMO, using Kuchiyose is reckless move, especially if they intended to capture enemy.

Last edited by Tactics; 2015-06-05 at 12:22.
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Old 2015-06-05, 10:55   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerGilga View Post
^
About the shroud thing, you basically said, that Naruto would heal himself first and leave Salada unprotected, which I would find very out of character.
The list was actually just to show, how many established/hinted abilities Naruto and Sasuke have to deal with the situation. Them not using them and taking unnecessary harm to make the battle more 'intense' is the bad writing people complain about.
I can't disagree that it could have been written better, I understand. I just don't think its that big a deal, and that we should already know that villains (or any new characters really) abilities are usually inflated at their introduction. Remember Sai's first appearance? He was made to look as though he could defeat Naruto, and Naruto did have some trouble when he first dealt with his never seen before abilities.

Yet notice how these fights are always stopped short? That's because if they went on further the opponent would eventually lose, and the plot is ruined. This stuff happens all the time in all kinds of anime. Yeah its contrived, I get it. But really, there are much worse things that happened in this manga; this is pretty minor imho.
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Old 2015-06-05, 11:44   Link #70
DerGilga
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It boils down to the 'Willing Suspension of Disbelief'. If its well written, aka the plot happens but it is done it in a way without breaken before established rules and facts, e.g. what our heroes are capable of, then most people will be ok with it. It feels natural and smooth.
If on the other hand this isn't written well, aka established rules and facts are broken, the it pulls one out of a story and we realize it's artificial. The characters aren't acting because that it's what they would do, but because a very rich japanese man wrote this thing and decided that this will happen now.
Well that's how I understand the 'Willing Suspension of Disbelief' but maybe I got that wrong, no expert on that.
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Old 2015-06-06, 07:08   Link #71
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Seriously, what a bad written chapter. Though, I'm not surprised if people are defending how Naruto and Sasuke were defeated. Gotta defend you know.
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Old 2015-06-06, 09:32   Link #72
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
If it's his blood... Naruto and Sasuke could wind up being his puppets for a time, since both of them got cut by weapons covered in his blood.
maybe his abiliy doesnt work on living things :/ or on shinobi who have to much reiatsuchakra (aka Bleach )
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Old 2015-06-06, 12:53   Link #73
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We need more diversity in the new Akatsuki. All they are showing is just sharigan users...
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Old 2015-06-06, 17:15   Link #74
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To be fair, there are potential political ramifications to Naruto continuing to get stronger. He is the Hero of the 4th War, and because he preaches peace the other villages and nations follow his lead, but if he had spent the subsequent years since the war increasing his strength to some unimaginable level, how do you think the other nations would feel? There is no reason to get noticeably stronger during a time of peace, especially if your increase in strength actually goes against your political philosophy and the way the world perceives you.
Except that Naruto has never once wavered in his beliefs and his nindo, because taking back his word is against his personal code. He's shown time and time again that he is completely unwilling to go against his personal beliefs, even in the face of insurmountable odds. Remember him begging the Raikage to call off the hit on Sasuke?

And there are greater ramifications for him sitting back and growing fat and lazy. He IS the symbol of peace as the Hero of the 4th War. Wouldn't it be more believable for him to lead by example, and build up as much power as he needs to be able to protect the peace? Seriously, before he became hokage, during The Last, he was far and away more powerful than even Hashirama. Even Sasuke was more powerful than Hashirama. It's ridiculous to think that the most powerful ninja ever would sit on his ass and grow lazy. Naruto's character has been all about protecting the things that are most important to him. Him becoming lazy goes completely against his character.
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Old 2015-06-06, 18:19   Link #75
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Except that Naruto has never once wavered in his beliefs and his nindo, because taking back his word is against his personal code. He's shown time and time again that he is completely unwilling to go against his personal beliefs, even in the face of insurmountable odds. Remember him begging the Raikage to call off the hit on Sasuke?

And there are greater ramifications for him sitting back and growing fat and lazy. He IS the symbol of peace as the Hero of the 4th War. Wouldn't it be more believable for him to lead by example, and build up as much power as he needs to be able to protect the peace? Seriously, before he became hokage, during The Last, he was far and away more powerful than even Hashirama. Even Sasuke was more powerful than Hashirama. It's ridiculous to think that the most powerful ninja ever would sit on his ass and grow lazy. Naruto's character has been all about protecting the things that are most important to him. Him becoming lazy goes completely against his character.
Nice straw-man; James never said anything about him becoming fat or lazy :/

Naruto & Sasuke could simply maintain their shape/condition, and because they were given power from the sage, its quite likely that no ninja will be able to reach them(much less surpass them) for several generations if ever. Instead of training in violent jutsu, Naruto could instead concentrate his future efforts on things like sealing techniques and using ninja arts for things more useful than death and destruction(while keeping in shape). Indeed, this would be very fitting since many of his clan's techniques were probably lost or forgotten after the ninja world fell into war. I think this would serve a great example for the other countries, and they'd probably follow suit, considering Naruto's charisma and popularity.
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Old 2015-06-06, 20:00   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Midnight_Commander View Post
Instead of training in violent jutsu, Naruto could instead concentrate his future efforts on things like sealing techniques and using ninja arts for things more useful than death and destruction(while keeping in shape). Indeed, this would be very fitting since many of his clan's techniques were probably lost or forgotten after the ninja world fell into war.
It's interesting that you bring that up since it really does make sense that Naruto should have excellent sealing techs based on his parents. But then that makes this fight even more odd since I'd expect him to have some sort of sealing tech like Chiyo used on Sasori or like Danzo used on Sasuke where the victim is immobilized, at least briefly. I'd think that in the last decade Naruto would have devised/learned a sealing tech to immobilize everyone he targets in a room. That would be a perfect peace-keeping jutsu and it would also make the most sense to use a tech like that when protecting children.
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Old 2015-06-06, 21:23   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Midnight_Commander View Post
Instead of training in violent jutsu, Naruto could instead concentrate his future efforts on things like sealing techniques and using ninja arts for things more useful than death and destruction(while keeping in shape). Indeed, this would be very fitting since many of his clan's techniques were probably lost or forgotten after the ninja world fell into war. I think this would serve a great example for the other countries, and they'd probably follow suit, considering Naruto's charisma and popularity.
This is a cool idea. Naruto and Sasuke can stop themselves from becoming fat and lazy, but they can't stop themselves from aging*. The best thing they can do besides saving the world from Kaguya pass on a powerful legacy, perhaps a new system of jutsu that, as you stated, can be of more use than destroying things e.g. look how Hashirama was capable of creating forests with his Mokuton jutsu. Whats great about jutsu like these is that they aren't inherently violent, but they can be used as a powerful tool to defend oneself or others. The potential here is amazing considering how clever and creative they both are.

It would make for a bit of a boring story --but then that's what the new generation would be here for. I agree with itachi-san314 that it would've been better written if Naruto and Sasuke were instead featured later on, or in a final fight of this series. In the meantime, it would have made sense if we were shown brief clips of them using their sage powers to work on a new system of jutsus like what we're discussing here.

*yes i know, theres a forbidden jutsu; but they can work on a more natural, less malevolent way of doing it like Tsunade's.
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Old 2015-06-06, 23:36   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Midnight_Commander View Post
Nice straw-man; James never said anything about him becoming fat or lazy :/

Naruto & Sasuke could simply maintain their shape/condition, and because they were given power from the sage, its quite likely that no ninja will be able to reach them(much less surpass them) for several generations if ever. Instead of training in violent jutsu, Naruto could instead concentrate his future efforts on things like sealing techniques and using ninja arts for things more useful than death and destruction(while keeping in shape). Indeed, this would be very fitting since many of his clan's techniques were probably lost or forgotten after the ninja world fell into war. I think this would serve a great example for the other countries, and they'd probably follow suit, considering Naruto's charisma and popularity.
Except that the flashback in this chapter showed that Sasuke was worried about something like, or stronger than Kaguya showing up in the future, thus Naruto and Sasuke's lack of training is doubly disturbing.
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Old 2015-06-07, 16:31   Link #79
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You guys sound like Naruto have much free time to figure out a new Jutsu .

Also , he probably doesn't need one because he already got one , by using the power of 1 tail .
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Old 2015-06-07, 16:34   Link #80
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It's how Batman got curbstomped by Bane. A long time of peace can make someone out of practice...
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