Macross Frontier - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Anh_Minh]

And I'm saying that being short and flat doesn't necessarily make you look like a child.

(Besides, saying she shouldn't get a particular boyfriend based on her looks? What's up with that?)

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And I'm saying that being short and flat doesn't necessarily make you look like a child.

(Besides, saying she shouldn't get a particular boyfriend based on her looks? What's up with that?)

She looks like a child. I am not saying that every woman with flat breasts looks like a child, I am saying that Ranka Lee, protagonist of Macross Frontier, is designed as a character to look like a child.

And as I said, because she looks like a child, a sexual/romantic adult relationship between Alto and her would be disgusting to me. I agree with Barack Obama that pedophiles deserve the death penalty, if that says anything about me. And I am a big old lefty otherwise.

[Anh_Minh]

Pedophilia isn't a matter of looks. Ranka may look younger than she is (though not by as much as some of you claim, IMO), but she's only one year younger than Alto. Having a relationship with him would not make him a pedophile.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Pedophilia isn't a matter of looks. Ranka may look younger than she is (though not by as much as some of you claim, IMO), but she's only one year younger than Alto.

Okay, last repeat. Ranka LOOKS LIKE A CHILD TO ME. Therefore, I associate her with being younger, independent of which age she is said to be. Her behaviour is quite child-like, also, which doesn´t help in the least.

As she looks like a child and behaves like one, the thought of her being involved in a romantic and/or sexual relationship with Alto is disgusting to me.

Honestly, if you still don´t get what I am saying, I´d wish that I´d have lone_wolfs talent for drawing, so I could make a pretty diagram for you.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Okay, last repeat. Ranka LOOKS LIKE A CHILD TO ME. Therefore, I associate her with being younger, independent of which age she is said to be. Her behaviour is quite child-like, also, which doesn´t help in the least.

As she looks like a child and behaves like one, the thought of her being involved in a romantic and/or sexual relationship with Alto is disgusting to me.

Honestly, if you still don´t get what I am saying, I´d wish that I´d have lone_wolfs talent for drawing, so I could make a pretty diagram for you.

Faceplam pic anybody?

She's just a drawn character don't sweat it.

It's the same old formula since SDF Macross. Who will you root for the younger girl or the mature one?

Though Sheryl and Ranka are both childlish in personality, the very big difference is that Ranka has the body of a typical Japanese girl her age while Sheryl looks too mature for her age.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Faceplam pic anybody?

She's just a drawn character don't sweat it.

It's the same old formula since SDF Macross. Who will you root for the younger girl or the mature one?

Though Sheryl and Ranka are both childlish in personality, the very big difference is that Ranka has the body of a typical Japanese girl her age while Sheryl looks too mature for her age.

Yeah, yeah, "faceplam" me. I am simply astonished that, what I thought is a simple statement, apparently needs three repetitions, each with more exhaustive detail, to be understood.

Also, I´d dispute that all fifteen year old Japanese girls look like ten to twelve year old European ones.

Sheryl is, btw., designed to look very European, with her blue eyes, french writing and, well, whatever her hair colour is. Blond-pink?

[Anh_Minh]

I understand it. And I know you can't really help the way you feel. I just don't find it very logical.

Can you imagine yourself saying about a RL woman, who happens to be short, flat, and look like a child, "She shouldn't have any adult relationship. It'd look disgusting to me." And sure, Ranka's just a drawing. But by that token, what's the point of being disgusted?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Also, I´d dispute that all fifteen year old Japanese girls look like ten to twelve year old European ones.

You haven't seen enough Japanese actresses that make go WTF she's 15?!

Then again there are those that make you go WHAT?! she's only 10?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I understand it. And I know you can't really help the way you feel. I just don't find it very logical.

Can you imagine yourself saying about a RL woman, who happens to be short, flat, and look like a child, "She shouldn't have any adult relationship. It'd look disgusting to me." And sure, Ranka's just a drawing. But by that token, what's the point of being disgusted?

Well, for example that a real life woman is a *real life woman*, who just grew up that way.

Ranka, OTOH, is a *designed character*, who as a feature does look like a loli. I am apparently expected by the designers of her look to find that attractive.

I do not. At all.

And, I want to add, in RL I actually *prefer* small, slim women. But only up to a certain limit, which Ranka surpasses. She is designed to look like a child, and I really, really dislike that aspect.

[Anh_Minh]

Ah. So unless a character is attractive to you, she shouldn't have a relationship?

[Sleepy100]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

That's fairly standard procedure for villian races. They're bad news when they're first introduced, but get noticeably weaker and in greater numbers as they make more and more appearances. Considering how they couldn't stop a pair of Victors from breaching Island One (outran VF-25s w/ fastpacks), hundreds of them should pretty much have free rain of any battlefield, unless they're on the defensive.

They didn't get weaker. It was more like they found the Vajra's weak point (or weakest armored area depending on your point of view) and took advantage of it. In episode one when Alto first used the VF, his style of attacking was pretty much a spray and pray style. If you took a closer look, Alto only hit the armored areas. At the same time, the Vajra was protecting a certain area. And that area is the head. Then in the 2nd episode, Ozma used a knife and stabbed the neck area of the Vajra. It's close enough area to the head (Plus unarmored). Then in episode three, Michael sniped off the Vajra's head. Though it didn't die, that part was the only part that the Vajra always seem to loose. Then in the seventh episode, Michael took the first out with a head shot. When that was done, he took it apart by nailing the joints. In nine, Alto hit the back armored area, not the head. So if you take a closer look at 14, you'll noticed that Diamond Leader nailed the Vajra in the head. Same thing with Alto when he charged through the Vajra.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Ah. So unless a character is attractive to you, she shouldn't have a relationship?

What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? Make me rant against lolita characters which seem to be designed to satisfy some pedofiliac urges for viewers? Well, I´ll do that with gusto!

Yeah, I think that Ranka shouldn´t have a romantic relationship by the look in she was designed. I´d wish she would "grow out" some more, to make me less uncomfortable when I see the adult looking Alto going all lovey-dovey over Missus "I look like I am ten years old" Ranka Lee.

If she´d been designed to not be so clearly a loli, then I´d be much much less uncomfortable with a relationship between those two.

As it is, it drops my appreciation for Alto as a character by two notches, because he apparently has no problem with her lolita-ness.

I don´t know, maybe it is supposed to be less noticeable in the "anime world" in which the characters live, but for me as a viewer, it surely is glaringly obvious that Ranka looks like a child in 95% of her appearances.

[cheesie]

My two cents about Ranka's design:

I hate her design. I think it's obvious loli-bait for the lolicon crowd. I hate the way her hair flaps up like a puppy dog, I am still not sure about the fang as I can't help but think it's a good moe point for the otaku crowd. That shot with her pressing up against Alto literally drove the point home, I'm sorry, but I wish I could think up better flowery prose for "it made me almost hurl up". Her awesome personality/character saved her. But it's a mixed reaction, some people hate it some people love it. Can't change anyone's minds about it.

[Anh_Minh]

I don't find lolis attractive either (not in that way, anyway), but I'm more "tolerant". I don't need to lust after characters to wish them well.

And I don't find the "there's only one body type worth having" attitude very pleasant.

[cheesie]

If I were to design Ranka, I would get rid of the puppy hair (or at least give her some long straight flowing hair that would do the same floaty thingie ) and maybe puff up her chest a little (she started out the same age as Minmei who wowed the audience with her bod fer cryin' out loud) I'm not saying Ranka needs to be wow sexy, I just wish her design isn't so loli-bait. There's a big difference. Well thats just my opinion, obviously the minority anyway looking at how all the points I hate are what others find cute.

[Swampstorm]

People remember characters for their most distinct traits. These could be personality traits, or they could be physical ones.

In Nanase's case, for example, just about the only thing that most people seem to be able to remember about her is that she's a so-called 'healthy girl', as the euphemism goes. If she had an extremely memorable personality, then this quality might have been the focal point of her character, instead.

Here too, it's just a matter of preference. You might like her for the way in which she's presented, or you might not.

Incidentally, a 'loli' character design does not hinge entirely on bust size. It often tends to be a combination of both appearance and behavior.

[Westlo]

Yes I would definitely give Ranka long hair if I was in charge of her redesign but I have a massive preference for long hair. I took one look at the first 2 page spread for the new manga from the guy who did Suzaku and instantly liked the long haired one better first. (chapter 6 ftw!)

Also it's obvious that Ranka is meant to appeal to the moe/loli crowd, arguing otherwise is pathetic. The difference in designs between a lot of characters shows that they want to appeal to a lot of different crowds.

[Tabris]

About the Vajra getting weaker.

Does anyone remember in episode 6 when they talked about using anti-vajra munitions? After SMS's testing of the weapons in episode 7, the entire NUNS fleet on Macross-F probably adopted the stuff for future use against the Vajra.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I refer you to my post above. Even with skintight/without clothes, she has the body of a child. Episodes 13 and 14 show that the proof is in the pudding.

Case closed.

How about the Miss Macross competition or when Alto copt a feel?

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by crisis

My two cents about Ranka's design:

I hate her design. I think it's obvious loli-bait for the lolicon crowd.

THAT is the point.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

How about the Miss Macross competition or when Alto copt a feel?

How much cleavage did she have, or did it look like she had baby fat on her? Plus, when Alto accidentally grabbed her, it doesn't prove that she has (you know) boobies at all! Look, if there's a girl with a surprisingly FLAT ass, and you put your hand on her inexistent ass, she'll probably recoil in humiliation too. That's because the social standard says that those parts are private, no matter how miniscule they are.