Ore no Imouto - Light Novel & Manga Discussion Thread

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by mayid

I dont like the plain, silent types like Manami. I see it like this. Her plan didnt play out like she wanted. that is why she was pissed.

They caled her a grandma (because her attidude). But looks like she doesnt hit like a grandma.

Honestly, next time people re-read the novels or re-watch the anime, there are basically three things to pay attention to:

a) Kirino's true feelings lurking beneath the surface (and the ways she tried to hide it)
b) Manami's true intentions lurking beneath the surface (and the ways she tried to hide it)
c) The way Kyousuke both falls-into and slips-away-from Manami's plans, and towards Kirino (often despite Kirino's brash/abrasive attitude).


And the key points to know are as follows:

Kirino:
1. Has been in love with Kyousuke since childhood
2. Became estranged from Kyousuke due to Manami's intervention
3. Is deeply resentful of both Kyousuke and Manami

Manami:
1. Has been in love with Kyousuke since childhood
2. Got closer to Kyousuke after she drove a wedge between him and Kirino
3. Doesn't want to lose Kyousuke to Kirino (and only Kirino) at any cost

Kyousuke:
1. Used to be a leader/go-getter
2. Settled on the boring life after Manami's intervention
3. Wants to win Kirino's affection back


Knowing all this now, I think a lot of things become a lot more clear.

[finalfury]

To hopefully clarify to some people about the discarding of the foreshadowing of Kuroneko's notebook, I think the author intended to use the notebook's foreshadowing to redirect speculation towards another angle due to focus that the two pictures had and how much people noticed them.
But, it is likely that the page that shows the incarnation of despair(really, really sad face) was actually the true foreshadowing and those other two pictures were meant to circumnavigate attention from that picture of despair. This is all a theory though, but it does somewhat answer the question of why that foreshadowing of the three people in the table was not used and I think the term for this is false leads, like in mysteries. :/
The answer being that those two pictures were fake foreshadowing, foreshadowing that attempted to attempted to circumnavigate attention from the "legit" foreshadowing. I repeat, this is all a theory.

[sleepingleo]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Honestly, next time people re-read the novels or re-watch the anime, there are basically three things to pay attention to:

That's also the problem (mine at least) when people don't like the ending of a story. After knowing how this ends I find pointless to read the thing again (and watch the anime by extension).

Why travel a road of thousand miles if the goal sucks for you? Some optimists might say: "It's the travel what matters". Screw that, if goal sucks no point in making a travel.

I can read Toradora over and over and i know i will come back eventually, because the road was great, then goal was too. But not this one.

I cannot hop into the incest boat because everything in the setting was, more or less, credible and viable, possible in the realm of reality. But do not throw an incest-happy ever after ending in there because it is just not compatible with the setting, therefore I cannot buy it.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by sleepingleo

I cannot hop into the incest boat because everything in the setting was, more or less, credible and viable, possible in the realm of reality. But do not throw an incest-happy ever after ending in there because it is just not compatible with the setting, therefore I cannot buy it.

I would hardly call this an "incest-happy ever after ending", and there have certainly been some oddities about the "setting" long before this volume, in my opinion...

But anyway, personally, the thing I find most interesting about stories is usually trying to piece together the puzzle, and seeing the way everything is connected. And while this isn't the ending I expected most, I do see how the puzzle pieces fit, so that keeps me interested.

[sleepingleo]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I would hardly call this an "incest-happy ever after ending", and there have certainly been some oddities about the "setting" long before this volume, in my opinion...

But anyway, personally, the thing I find most interesting about stories is usually trying to piece together the puzzle, and seeing the way everything is connected. And while this isn't the ending I expected most, I do see how the puzzle pieces fit, so that keeps me interested.

And if they didn't live happy ever-after (in a comedy-centered work) what is point of going into a controversial relationship just to end: "Hmm you know what, yeah we should break up and go back to normal"? What? That's bs.

In some ways this is a tragic ending if you extend the timeline since I'm sure they will lose their parents support, I'm sure Manami and her family will not want to see Kyousuke's face ever again, and that's a shame since they were nice people with him all his life. Some foreshadows say Kirino lost contact with Kuroneko (the twitter thing). I don't think Saori can hold the group by herself with the tension of having a sister-brother couple and an exgirlfriend in it, eventually Ayase will end up desserting Kirino given the moralist she is...well, so many points that make this ending bullshit in my book, that's why i'm not interested on it anymore and was my favorite series since i watched the first season of the anime, and that for me is really sad.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

And the key points to know are as follows:

Kirino:
1. Has been in love with Kyousuke since childhood
2. Became estranged from Kyousuke due to Manami's intervention
3. Is deeply resentful of both Kyousuke and Manami
Kyousuke:
1. Used to be a leader/go-getter
2. Settled on the boring life after Manami's intervention
3. Wants to win Kirino's affection back

I'm praying for an incest ending!!!! Doujinshis are going up, up, up!!!!

Originally Posted by sleepingleo

And if they didn't live happy ever-after (in a comedy-centered work) what is point of going into a controversial relationship just to end: "Hmm you know what, yeah we should break up and go back to normal"? What? That's bs.

Besides I still doubt they're siblings.... none of them... the Father, Mother to Kyousuke and Kirino shares the same hair color.

One may say... Hey, this is anime... But at least one similarity won't be a bother to the mangaka or author to describe, right?

[Soverence]

Originally Posted by sleepingleo

I cannot hop into the incest boat because everything in the setting was, more or less, credible and viable, possible in the realm of reality. But do not throw an incest-happy ever after ending in there because it is just not compatible with the setting, therefore I cannot buy it.

Well, the setting was always "viable" but quite a ways out there. One of the draws of the series to me was the far out their yet realistic setting. Well incest is a rarity in reality it is something that does actually happen in reality so for this story it doesn't really shock me that something that rarely happens in reality could happen in a far out their yet realistic setting.

[finalfury]

Originally Posted by Soverence

Well, the setting was always "viable" but quite a ways out there. One of the draws of the series to me was the far out their yet realistic setting. Well incest is a rarity in reality it is something that does actually happen in reality so for this story it doesn't really shock me that something that rarely happens in reality could happen in a far out their yet realistic setting.

I once read an article about how two people met each other, fell in love, got married, and after some testing and whatnot(testing for diseases and stuff I think), found out that they were siblings and were forced by the court to get a divorce. These two were the offspring of other marriages which is why they didn't know each other at the time.
Also, one of the good friends from back in day, was "technically" an offspring of an incestual relationship(1st cousins I think). He was a normal, smart, and funny guy, and condemning his parents because of "OMG INCEST IS BAD" would have been messed up in my eyes, since in a way, I would have technically been denying his existence. Bear in mind that with the whole liberal/Democrat propaganda going on in the US, I think a lot of moral and ethical values will change, for whatever reason they give.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by sleepingleo

And if they didn't live happy ever-after (in a comedy-centered work) what is point of going into a controversial relationship just to end: "Hmm you know what, yeah we should break up and go back to normal"? What? That's bs.

Well, this is why the ending is the way it is: ambiguous. Having a straight-out happy ending isn't really befitting the setting (as you say), because there are too many hurdles to overcome (not least of which are barriers in editorial ). But having Kyousuke and Kirino somehow "turn off" their feelings for one another having come that far doesn't really make sense either, and clashes with the build-up over the course of the story. So...

Basically, given that the story revolves around Kirino and Kyousuke falling (or "re-falling"?) in love with each other, there aren't so many ways to end it and still have the pieces fit. Both the journey and the destination have to connect to each other.

(I do realize that nothing I say is going to make you "like the ending" of course. And as I said before, I want to actually get the rest of the details myself to make a fuller judgement.)

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I can't really agree here. The usual "harem comedy route" by its very nature involves keeping the readers speculating 'till the end about who the protagonist will choose, and this means obscuring his feeling to some degree. But it was increasingly clear over the last two volumes (the lead-up to this finale) that Kyousuke was going to make his feelings known, and this would as a result put an end to the rest of available paths. Calling this "Deus ex Machina" doesn't make sense to me at all, as there were plenty of signs throughout the work that pointed to this, even though they were subject to interpretation so as to keep the mystery.

Most harems still have their "main" heroines, which everyone knows will be the final contestants, with the MC's true feelings become known at the end, just like Oreimo. My DEM comment wasn't about Kyousuke making a decision, but rather that the built-up to it is lackluster to say the least and felt rather... abrupt.

It's almost as if the story was setup as a giant VN where the flags for all the routes gets tripped, and then the author just decided to settle on a single route at the end.

barring the fact that the author chose to keep the big reveal to the very end, which means a lot has to get resolved at once (even though the pieces had been set-up for a long time).

Obviously that bothers me far more than it does you, as that alone is enough to sour me on the story.

[Reisengard]

In restrospect, the hints of this ending were all over the place. The answer Kyousuke gave to Sakurai ("No matter if it is now or three years ago, my answer is the same." ) and every other detail, it all led to this. I want to read it all before saying anything big, but it makes sense, I think...

As a big Kuroneko fan, though, I am quite sad with this. I really want to read that part (and the epilogue) to see what happened with their friendship, and if anything is said about what she does...

I think she may be the one who accepted it the best, and because she knew Kirino as well as she did, she was aware of it all... for example, the scene where she was discussing with Ayase and said even if Kirino and Kyousuke had sex, she was fine with it. Of course, how far this is her true feelings, I don't know.

For me, the biggest impact was because... Well. Truth be told, what I liked the most in Kuroneko was how she gave her best at so many things, but even though she did that, everything didn't go her way. She wasn't rich, popular, and if we thinkg about her lack of success with her doujinshi and novel, not very skilled. Even though she tried her best.

On the other side, Kirino gave her best too, but everything she wanted.. she got. She was famous, skilled, fast, and pampered by the one she loved. It may be a fool's wish, but I really wanted to see something good happening to Kuroneko... because imo, she really deserved it.

So, if I can say something about how I feel about this ending, is 'sad'. Not because it's a bad ending (again, I didn't read it yet.) but because someone I didn't want to see suffering did suffer. Sometimes, all we want from a fiction is to see good things happening with good people.

P.S.: Someone said that Kuroneko gave the 'biggest curse' to Kyousuke, and that was a recording of Kyousuke describing who he loves... The biggest curse was helping him out, it seems.

[Mystic_Vegetto]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I would hardly call this an "incest-happy ever after ending", and there have certainly been some oddities about the "setting" long before this volume, in my opinion...

But anyway, personally, the thing I find most interesting about stories is usually trying to piece together the puzzle, and seeing the way everything is connected. And while this isn't the ending I expected most, I do see how the puzzle pieces fit, so that keeps me interested.

I think it all comes down to interpretation. How did you interpret the relationship between the siblings? We've seen people make the argument that they're just Siblings with a Brother/Sister Complex. But we've also seen the argument that their relationship could be seen as "Lovers, but they're siblings and that's what prevents them from going any further." When you go back as you suggested, you can definitely make the case for both sides.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Obviously that bothers me far more than it does you, as that alone is enough to sour me on the story.

Well... it might otherwise bother me, but I see why it was done. It builds interest/excitement in the minds of the fans, and gives people something to cheer for, even though many will be inevitably disappointed. (This thread has had dozens of readers pretty much 24/7 since yesterday, with max viewership well over 200 at times. That doesn't happen when the ending is more clear and obvious.) With the way the story was setup, with fans dividing into camps cheering for their favourite heroine, there's basically no way to do it except save it all for the last volume.

(And I do still think that, in truth, there weren't really that many viable routes to take. It seemed like a lot of flags were tripped, but many of them were just distractors to muddy the waters before the big reveals of the last two volumes.)

Originally Posted by Mystic_Vegetto

I think it all comes down to interpretation. How did you interpret the relationship between the siblings? We've seen people make the argument that they're just Siblings with a Brother/Sister Complex. But we've also seen the argument that their relationship could be seen as "Lovers, but they're siblings and that's what prevents them from going any further." When you go back as you suggested, you can definitely make the case for both sides.

Well, knowing the answer the author gives in the end eliminates the other option, though it doesn't mean that it was unreasonable to believe the other at the time. We had this discussion in this thread before a number of times over the years, and there were novel readers who adamantly believed both views.

(Where I was ultimately going with the point was, knowing how it ends now, the earlier scenes can be viewed in light of that interpretation.)

[type-R!]

In a way the novel remained loyal to its title. It started with the sister and it ended with her. Personally I don't dislike this end (but would have preferred a better one too) since I have liked Kirino from the start.
Another thing to consider is how much the editor and publisher affected the end of the novel. Leaving morals and controversy issues aside, the youth ordinance bill and the recent news of a newly proposed (or revised?) bill affecting maybe even more works (forgot the specifics but it was in the new not too long ago), there is some possibility that all this might have played some role in shaping some of this epilogue as well.
In a vague way they probably tried to play it 'safe' (although not entirely).

[larethian]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Besides I still doubt they're siblings.... none of them... the Father, Mother to Kyousuke and Kirino shares the same hair color.

One may say... Hey, this is anime... But at least one similarity won't be a bother to the mangaka or author to describe, right?

Kirino's natural hair color is black. She dyed it. Go look at the cover of the volume when she's a kid again.

[Mystic_Vegetto]

Originally Posted by larethian

Kirino's natural hair color is black. She dyed it. Go look at the cover of the volume when she's a kid again.

I believe it's Dark Brown actually.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by larethian

Kirino's natural hair color is black. She dyed it. Go look at the cover of the volume when she's a kid again.

Well, still..... who knows...

[Soverence]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Besides I still doubt they're siblings.... none of them... the Father, Mother to Kyousuke and Kirino shares the same hair color.

One may say... Hey, this is anime... But at least one similarity won't be a bother to the mangaka or author to describe, right?

I believe it is possible for children to have different hair colors from their parents due to recessive and dominant traits right? I don't remember which colors are dominant and recessive but if the parents were dominant with recessive genes then that would easily explain it.

Also its possible he didn't really think about that and just made the characters the way he wanted them to look disregarding genes and such.

[type-R!]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Well, still..... who knows...

Concerning Kyousuke, it might be just me but my memory tells me that somewhere he or somebody else once commented on his resemblance to his mother in some aspect (I know they did the same with Kirino). Again this is just my bad memory, just 1% sure that this happened.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by type-R!

Concerning Kyousuke, it might be just me but my memory tells me that somewhere he or somebody else once commented on his resemblance to his mother in some aspect (I know they did the same with Kirino). Again this is just my bad memory, just 1% sure that this happened.

If one of them is adopted, it could be Kirino and not Kyousuke.... that's the usual sceneario in some animes... she could be an adopted relative..

I'm just guessing...