2012-08-21, 09:31 | Link #30101 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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EVA is a character that represents both Beatrice (the witch who was being blamed for the murders) and Eva (the human being blamed for the murders) Like in EP4, Ange's enemy was the witch of Rokkenjima- who took the form of Eva. The thing about the ring is also true: all we know is that in the end, Eva gets the ring. But we wonder if she really solve the epitaph in the first place. We have this line from EP2: Quote:
So we have:
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2012-08-21, 13:23 | Link #30103 | |
The True Culprit
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2012-08-21, 19:17 | Link #30105 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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In general, the issue of Kinzo's corpse is a bag of thorns. Logically, there's no reason to keep or attempt to preserve his body at all ... but BAM, his body is certainly there. Probably. I lie at Kratsuhi and co. buried his corpse somewhere in the forest where it was unlikely to be found. Shkanon decided to use it in the ceremony cause it's basically a free "Pass Go" on having to actually kill someone. Of course, burning him up is a better presentation than "all decayed, and stuff". Presumably, regardless of whether you think she was being blackmailed or was an accomplice in EP1, Natsuhi pretty much knew Gensawajo was not to be trusted when she kicked them out of the study. There IS the matter of why his corpse wasn't used in EP2, and why it WAS used in EP4. I put that pretty much on Ryukishi - repeating Kinzo's style of death in EP2 would have exposed the trick too early (most people had guessed it in Banquet, after all), and doing it in EP4 is basically a confirmation of a pattern. |
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2012-08-21, 19:36 | Link #30106 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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That last part you stated is pretty much the basics of the Natsuhi Corpse Theory. The corpse is burned in EP's 1, 3, and 4. But EP 4 breaks it sense from what we know the corpse was burned near the end if we are going to go by the scene of Beatrice burning the corpse as implying this is when she burned him. So pretty much Kinzo isn't burned on the Fourth Twilight if Natsuhi is killed on the First Twilight which is what led me to believe that Natsuhi burned the corpse. Though she was not an accomplice to Yasu and has nothing to do with the other crimes. Natsuhi pretty much finally got her chance to dispose of Kinzo's body without any suspicion since it will just be assumed it was part of the murders. Yasu then staked the body afterwards.
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2012-08-21, 21:57 | Link #30107 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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I have to admit though, I am basing this partly on the fact that she is meant to be pure and innocent, which is a red that apparently can be applied to someone who pushed a maid and baby off a cliff (if what I've heard about ep 8 manga is to be believed)... |
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2012-08-21, 22:14 | Link #30108 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Well it isn't exactly evil because I still imagine Natsuhi freaking out for actually burning his corpse and really I can't think of another reason Kinzo wasn't burned in EP 2 and not till the end of EP 4. I can see EP 4 being Yasu found his corpse after searching and going through the mansion and also Natsuhi burning him when she gets the gun could fit. But I can't find a time where Yasu could've staked the corpse or burn the body because after murdering Eva and Hideyoshi Yasu was always under watch from someone. The only time she could've is when she went to grab the tool to break into the room.
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2012-08-22, 01:02 | Link #30109 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Kinzo wasn't burned at the end of EP4. Battler was in the guesthouse the entire time until his investigation on Oct. 5th. The parents may have found his body during the conference and acknowledged it as Kinzo.
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2012-08-22, 04:21 | Link #30110 | |||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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In fact, Kinzo's death becoming "real" in 1986 is a threat to Krautsuhi's embezzlement coverup regardless of the cause of his death, so Natsuhi shouldn't want to fake Kinzo's murder either. |
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2012-08-22, 05:26 | Link #30111 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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2012-08-22, 07:03 | Link #30112 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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What he seems to be sure about (given the assumption that Yasu killed herself) is the reason Yasu killed herself, which is something that isn't explicitly stated anywhere. Now I can even accept that that is a logical conclusion to him, but shouldn't he argument why he thinks it's the only inevitable conclusion rather than answering "that's what you said", as if I'm supposed to agree that my words definitely implicated all that?
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2012-08-22, 08:05 | Link #30113 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Also there is something I never understood. People have said that Yasu was born a male because of EP 5 and Willard saying that Yasu in the first four games was obviously female but was presented as male in one game. Then people are saying the one game Yasu was presented as male is the one where Yasu is before the cliff fall and I just thought what? The man from 19 years ago is harassing Natsuhi because she threw her off a cliff so I never really understood this theory.
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Last edited by Asuka0NK; 2012-08-22 at 10:09. |
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2012-08-22, 13:58 | Link #30115 | ||
The True Culprit
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2012-08-23, 06:11 | Link #30116 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Actually speaking of the lover's suicide, while George makes some lines earlier that might hint towards it, and she could have easily played the "before the killer gets us" line, I imagine the suicide must have been pretty onesided. After all, it would be hard to convince George after shooting Ghoda...
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2012-08-23, 07:35 | Link #30117 | ||
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Agreed. Asking why Kinzo wasn't burned in EP2, from a gameboard perspective, might be the same as asking why the 7th and 8th Twilights were Nanjo and Kumasawa, instead of, say, Ghoda and Genji. Quote:
Assuming you believe Yasu really is the cliff baby, Lion is the only version that didn't involve some hardcore cliff-ification. We cn excuse the masculin e presentation as Yasu already being able to pull off just as convincing a dude voice as a lady voice. Possibly related, the APA has totally released a new official position on transgendered and gender non-conforming individuals, as in, "Gender Identity Disorder" is no longer a thing and the much less contentious "Gender Dysphoria" is now the way to go, along with much more progressive guidelines for treatment. Too bad Yasu was growin' up in the 70's. :-/ |
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2012-08-23, 10:10 | Link #30118 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
Age: 27
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Asuka0NK
Ryukushi left the gender matter up to his readers, If you want to believe its male, fine , if its female also fine. I Believe She is female and if they tell me 'Natsuhi had to knew the gender of the child in ep5' , I'll tell them that Natsuhi had the baby for 3 days total and it is possible that she just didn't care, also that reasoning won't work , because story didn't tell us if she knew or not , in other words It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented. But , It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard. .Lets not forget Genji hiding Yasu from Kinzo , because he tought kinzo would do the same mistake . (Btw using red is ...cool... lololol) |
2012-08-23, 11:11 | Link #30119 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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But it's certainly worth asking: How does he know he's Battler, exactly? How does he know there was a Battler? I realize that from a narrative standpoint most people would say there was one simply because otherwise who were we talking about to begin with. That's probably the truth. But looking at it strictly from his perspective, can he even know that? Probably not. After all, Touya could doubt every one of his "memories" as being something that was planted there based on what he thinks he knows of "Ushiromiya Battler." There's no way to distinguish between "memories returning" and "falsely remembering based on later information," ultimately. He really can't ever be sure of who he was, perhaps absent some physical evidence (such as old photographs) that we aren't sure he's ever actually seen. It's not like Ange would be able to physically recognize him with certainty years and years later. Spoiler for Silly Theories:
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2012-08-23, 11:36 | Link #30120 | ||
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