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Old 2017-07-16, 22:40   Link #61
Wandering Soul
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Turns out there is a lot more to Ange and Princess than meets the eye. I wasn't expecting that final reveal that they were actually working together to manipulate Ange's agency.
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Old 2017-07-16, 23:14   Link #62
Random Wanderer
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Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
Turns out there is a lot more to Ange and Princess than meets the eye. I wasn't expecting that final reveal that they were actually working together to manipulate Ange's agency.
How about the final reveal that "Ange" is actually Princess Charlotte, and "Princess Charlotte" is actually Ange? That shakes up everything.
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Old 2017-07-17, 00:20   Link #63
ScrewySquirrel
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Knowing what we know about that reveal, if you go back and watch Ange trying to befriend the Princess, the whole scene where Ange spills the drink plays differently the second time around.

its obvious that Princess recognizes Ange from the moment she starts to walk up, befor she says a word. The conversation plays less as an introduction and more a repeat of a previous conversation, with a knowing smile on the Princess at the end.

This was a long con after all, between two friends before the civil war -- it was almost certainly Ange's suggestion for Operation Changeling. And Princess is not actually motivated by greed to get on the throne, this was Ange and Charlottes childhood plot, made during the Revolution.
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Old 2017-07-17, 01:44   Link #64
Random Wanderer
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Originally Posted by ScrewySquirrel View Post
Knowing what we know about that reveal, if you go back and watch Ange trying to befriend the Princess, the whole scene where Ange spills the drink plays differently the second time around.

its obvious that Princess recognizes Ange from the moment she starts to walk up, befor she says a word. The conversation plays less as an introduction and more a repeat of a previous conversation, with a knowing smile on the Princess at the end.

This was a long con after all, between two friends before the civil war -- it was almost certainly Ange's suggestion for Operation Changeling. And Princess is not actually motivated by greed to get on the throne, this was Ange and Charlottes childhood plot, made during the Revolution.
While I'm not sure either of them actually planned to be in these roles for as long as they have, nor the exact details of their lives and how they would meet again, I do agree that they were definitely having completely different conversations than the ones everyone else were participating in. I don't think they planned the "get me on the throne" speech, since that would have required them anticipating "Ange" having become a spy with people in a position to do that. I think the plan was mostly for the two of them to meet and then improvise as necessary to ensure they could stay together. The initial conversation was almost certainly a replay of their first meeting: the way it plays out with a flashback glimpse makes that clear enough. But most everything after that... I think that was just two remarkably clever girls who were thinking quick on their feet as they went along.
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Old 2017-07-17, 03:44   Link #65
Kakurin
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How about the final reveal that "Ange" is actually Princess Charlotte, and "Princess Charlotte" is actually Ange? That shakes up everything.
Yep, that's the big thing I took from that episode as well. I expect this to be somewhat the line along which the plot is developed, how that swap came to be in the first place and where the two of them will go from here.
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Old 2017-07-17, 10:04   Link #66
ScrewySquirrel
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
While I'm not sure either of them actually planned to be in these roles for as long as they have, nor the exact details of their lives and how they would meet again, I do agree that they were definitely having completely different conversations than the ones everyone else were participating in. I don't think they planned the "get me on the throne" speech, since that would have required them anticipating "Ange" having become a spy with people in a position to do that. I think the plan was mostly for the two of them to meet and then improvise as necessary to ensure they could stay together. The initial conversation was almost certainly a replay of their first meeting: the way it plays out with a flashback glimpse makes that clear enough. But most everything after that... I think that was just two remarkably clever girls who were thinking quick on their feet as they went along.
I'm not saying they planned to be spies at the mayfaire school or anything like that. They are a The Prince and the Pauper lookalike switch that happened "10 years ago" -- which would have been right in the middle of the civil war. Ange and Charlotte did their switch then when both were about 7 years old. Two friends who's families were on opposite sides if the civil war, one a royal family member, the other a commoner. Almost certainly one set of parents died in the war, if not both. some sort of 'reunite the kingdom' plot may have been hatched by their plan to switch.
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Old 2017-07-17, 10:19   Link #67
Harry Dresden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrewySquirrel View Post
Knowing what we know about that reveal, if you go back and watch Ange trying to befriend the Princess, the whole scene where Ange spills the drink plays differently the second time around.

its obvious that Princess recognizes Ange from the moment she starts to walk up, befor she says a word. The conversation plays less as an introduction and more a repeat of a previous conversation, with a knowing smile on the Princess at the end.

This was a long con after all, between two friends before the civil war -- it was almost certainly Ange's suggestion for Operation Changeling. And Princess is not actually motivated by greed to get on the throne, this was Ange and Charlottes childhood plot, made during the Revolution.
What's more it becomes clear that Ange specifically chooses the words they already in their childhood said to ensure Princess recognizes her.
The question is if their "throne" conversation is also something they said to each other in the past?

Its also puts into new perspective the OP visuals especially the car jump part - it always looked weird on how after "Ange" grabs princess they share a look and then "Ange" turns around and points her gun at supposedly other spies in her team behind her.
Its also interesting how in that scene when "Ange" is going to grab princess we see "Princess" seeing "Ange" as a horrifying monster trying to eat her(idk what kind of folklore monster though - it might be a kappa - a sort of japanese trickster creature which kind of fits).
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Old 2017-07-17, 11:22   Link #68
James Rye
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I like this a lot. First episode was sad with the death of the double defector big brother.
"No" *bang*
"No" *bang*
"No" *bang*
"No" *bang*
Damn, what a game of lies and liars!

And 2nd episode! HOLY SHIT! The princess herself becomes a traitor to her family to get first in line for the throne! And Ange is Charlotte who told her her real role! I didn't expected that to happen. It explains why Ange in the first episode was trying her hardest to meet the expectations of the princess when she wanted both siblings to defect. I wonder if this betrayal gonna bite Ange back in the ass at the end of this series.
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Old 2017-07-17, 15:31   Link #69
chaosprophet
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I wonder if the flashback on episode 1 that Ange has when the Princess says that it would be sad to have the scientist and his sister apart was actually something that happened with the Princess, instead of something that happened with Ange.

Also on episode 1 at 13m when Beatrice mentions that she never knows how much of what Ange says is actually true, the Princess says that some lies end up becoming true, just as the screen is focusing on a painting of the Princess with the Queen. That seems to be a foreshadow that the Princess is actually fake, but the kind you wouldn't really get if you didn't already know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
What's more it becomes clear that Ange specifically chooses the words they already in their childhood said to ensure Princess recognizes her.
The question is if their "throne" conversation is also something they said to each other in the past?
The becoming the Queen thing may just have been something the Princess came up with as a way to join the West spies quickly but hiding her true reason to do so (getting closer to Ange). Or it may be indeed something, or at least related with something, that the two wanted to do since before they got separated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
Its also interesting how in that scene when "Ange" is going to grab princess we see "Princess" seeing "Ange" as a horrifying monster trying to eat her(idk what kind of folklore monster though - it might be a kappa - a sort of japanese trickster creature which kind of fits).
It think that may be a visual reference to the whole extraterrestrial from the Black Lizard Planet thing Ange says from time to time. Now if it shows the Princess seeing it, maybe it's something they said to each other in the past, and may even mean something to them.
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Old 2017-07-17, 16:10   Link #70
Darthtabby
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
How about the final reveal that "Ange" is actually Princess Charlotte, and "Princess Charlotte" is actually Ange? That shakes up everything.
I somehow missed that. In my defense, I'll note that I'm often not great at remembering character's names, especially early on.

In general I'd say this episode improved my opinion of the show considerably. However I do find the swap thing strains credibility a bit. To the audience Ange and Charlotte look distinct, though I suppose we could consider Ange's hair color to be artistic license or the result of dye. On the other hand if there faces are actually supposed to be virtually identical in universe you'd think someone would make note of how similar they look. Then again this is hardly the first show to treat a pair of glasses as an impenetrable disguise.
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Old 2017-07-17, 16:34   Link #71
BBOvenGuy
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Originally Posted by James Rye View Post
"No" *bang*
"No" *bang*
"No" *bang*
"No" *bang*
And with a gun she'd told him wasn't loaded, too.

Like I said, she's a stone-cold moe-fo...
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Old 2017-07-17, 18:28   Link #72
TheForsaken
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Originally Posted by Darthtabby View Post
I somehow missed that. In my defense, I'll note that I'm often not great at remembering character's names, especially early on.

In general I'd say this episode improved my opinion of the show considerably. However I do find the swap thing strains credibility a bit. To the audience Ange and Charlotte look distinct, though I suppose we could consider Ange's hair color to be artistic license or the result of dye. On the other hand if there faces are actually supposed to be virtually identical in universe you'd think someone would make note of how similar they look. Then again this is hardly the first show to treat a pair of glasses as an impenetrable disguise.
You overestimate human's ability to recognize faces.

Unless their faces are very different, if two people have the same hairstyles, clothes, voices, manners, ... and they don't stand next to each other for you to compare, it's impossible to tell them apart, especially if you don't know them very well and/or only briefly interact with them. Makeup also can do wonderful job of changing the face as well.
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Old 2017-07-17, 20:41   Link #73
ThereminVox
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And with a gun she'd told him wasn't loaded, too.
In the same conversation she also tells him that his sister will never be cured. A bit of kindness, but only if he is able to read the implication.
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Old 2017-07-17, 21:02   Link #74
Kazu-kun
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In the same conversation she also tells him that his sister will never be cured. A bit of kindness, but only if he is able to read the implication.
He was sort of smiling as he was dying, so I think he did understand that Ange was lying about his sister.
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Old 2017-07-17, 21:42   Link #75
Kismet-chan
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In all honesty, this was my favorite debut of the season. It's just such fun romp of a show with tons of elements I have always loved and great deigns/animation, all stuffed into one package. I didn't expect much going into it, but I was pleasantly entertained by what I was ultimately presented with. All this needs is a really good overarching plot and continued tight writing and it'll be fantastic.
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Old 2017-07-18, 16:19   Link #76
jdennis007
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I originally watched the first episode just to have something to watch and it surprised me with how good it is and this week's episode was just as good.
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Old 2017-07-18, 18:13   Link #77
Kurapica
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This show seems to keep on being able to pleasently surprise me. Another solid episode.

I like how they're giving a tons of exposition and background to the characters, whom we clearly dont even know that well, whilst also keeping a lots of things in the dark. Well written show and easily one of the top shows this season.
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Old 2017-07-18, 18:24   Link #78
Liddo-kun
is this so?
 
 
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Watched episode 2:

Hmm, so that's how the princess became part of the team. Oh, and I like how Ange diguised herself and got the key from the old man, that's some real spy action there.

Looking forward to ep. 3
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Old 2017-07-19, 22:20   Link #79
Requiem-x
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While an explanation of how the princess joined the party was expected, having this soon was not, and it was done in a very nice way, showing no one in the main crew is a fool. Sure, it may not be the most realistic spy story ever, but, if the rest is going to be this good, who cares? Ok, I'm i...

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How about the final reveal that "Ange" is actually Princess Charlotte, and "Princess Charlotte" is actually Ange? That shakes up everything.
I-I thought it was just a nickname they shared with each other... So, not only have they met before, they've been playing two powers for fools during years and have a long term plan of their own. I'm so in

Also, did Beato just got dragged into this whole mess by coincidence? Wait, what am I saying, of course she didn't, no way the "princess" would allow that. Better start preparing to see her murder a room full of soldiers on her own.
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Old 2017-07-19, 23:13   Link #80
Applehell
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Episode 2 was pretty good, but sometimes this show feels like its trying too hard to be a slick spy drama. We don't need to be remind they are covert agents.

That aside I did like the twist, but to be honest I'm not entirely clear were all the factions stand right now and who's who.
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