Anime and Manga, one step closer to being illegal in the UK!!

[Aebliss]

So ... what would you all like to do about this? Will anyone here step up and set up a website which lists all the counter-arguments, gather autographs and statements from those psychologists mentioned by Solais?

Or will England start setting up a secret pipeline for anime and manga?

[Saleh]

Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple

Thats the whole point we've been trying to raise.

The law itself is sound, and has been needed for a long time. However it's the ambiguity thats causing the frustration. Because in the recent amendment the government increased the ambiguity, and altered the law to cover ALL media, it's caused outrage.

For example if your into S&M and took photo's of it, or videos, that's illegal. (though again thats already in the process of changing). If the amendment is approved you'd be allowed your photos, but if you showed them to anyone you'd be commiting a crime.

Several groups have already stated that once the law comes into force they'll be going after certain anime and manga titles that they claim would breech this (He is my master being one of them).

The problem isn't the law, the problem lies in how the law is being made more and more ambiguous and open to interpretation. Basically, the government is becoming the thought police.

It all stems from the insane belief that people who watch porn (in any format) are more ;likely to be come real life sexual predators and murderors. It's a knee jerk reaction that's been rushed through because of a few (4 in the last decade) killers, who turned out to have fixations on hentai, S&M and stuff. Never mind the fact that the psyc reports all said they were likely to offend sooner or later anyway because they all turned out to be quakers.

I agree with Kamui that the bill in it current state has very low potential against animes, mangas, eroge games, etc(provided that the "complete product" was not produced solely or principally for the purpose of sexual arousal or doesn't consist of "extreme images").

[WanderingKnight]

Or will England start setting up a secret pipeline for anime and manga?

The Internet? The tubes are already set up and ready to be used.

[Solais]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

The Internet? The tubes are already set up and ready to be used.

Not to mention the hungarian Usteam ftp server (6 terabytes of anime, manga and hentai), what is already a kind of pipeline, because it's address is a secret, and only known to a few people. It's one of the greatest anime downloader FTP in Europe.

We're already preparing for the war.

[WanderingKnight]

Whoa, there's people still FTPing stuff?

I would've thought the owner of the network would've already forced its downloaders to switch to a P2P system, considering 1) the broken status of the FTP protocol (edit: I suppose they could be using SFTP or FTPS, though), and 2) the huge amount of bandwith a simple server-client transfer setup means.

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by Solais

Not to mention the hungarian Usteam ftp server (6 terabytes of anime, manga and hentai), what is already a kind of pipeline, because it's address is a secret, and only known to a few people. It's one of the greatest anime downloader FTP in Europe.

We're already preparing for the war.

Heh ... Good luck to you, then, kage no shikisha.

[JustInn14]

Originally Posted by gabbytay

Human stupidy has gone to a whole new level

True that~


...How would this affect mainstream shows that have sexual stuff, exactly? *like family guy.* I don't see this law lasting for too long. Otherwise, if you're a MAJOR anime/manga fan, you'll probably find yourself outside of the UK someday, even though, that's probably not practical. :P

Overall, this law seems pretty unsure. I'm sure the /B/ members on 4chan will protest it.

[Solais]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Whoa, there's people still FTPing stuff?

I would've thought the owner of the network would've already forced its downloaders to switch to a P2P system, considering 1) the broken status of the FTP protocol (edit: I suppose they could be using SFTP or FTPS, though), and 2) the huge amount of bandwith a simple server-client transfer setup means.

1) I don't really know, because I've using it for a long time, but as I see, most of the hungarians tend to hate P2P. I don't know the reason.
2)Like I said, it's address is a secret, and only a few use it. However, after my first animecon, I heard actually every animefan know it's existence, though the whole fandom is very small. (Small country, only 10 million people, and 95% of them didn't even know what anime is, 4.9% hates it, and the 0.1% is only fan. About 3000 people.)

Now, back to topic, please.
The only thing we can do is to cross our fingers, and see what will happen.

[Deathkillz]

I won't pay to much worry to this, not only is it not directly saying anything about anime/manga as far as I can see, such laws passed in the UK usually turn out to be half baked by someone with too much time on their hands. Now go tackle game violence!

[Ledgem]

There are a number of ways to show the foolishness of these types of laws. One that comes to my mind is snagging the politicians on their own legislation. For example, I believe it was in Germany that the prime minister was pushing for legislation that required biometric data to be collected on all citizens. Biometrics includes data such as your fingerprints; features unique to your body that would be harder to duplicate than, say, your social security number.

I'd imagine that the politicians felt pretty smug about it. To show the foolishness of the idea, the Chaos Computer Club published the prime minister's fingerprint in various newspapers. The fingerprints were lifted from a glass that the prime minister had drank from, and were duplicated that way; anyone could theoretically duplicate it and go around touching objects with the prints. If the police were so certain of biometrics and felt that they were infallible, the duplicated prints would be enough to prove guilt if they were found at the scene of the crime. For that reason, biometrics are not only vulnerable, but potentially dangerous. That was what the Chaos Computer Club sought out to prove.

The government's response, last I'd heard, was to rustle up a lawsuit of some sort... I don't know whether any lawsuit went through, or whether the idea over biometrics was abolished though. Either way, it got a government response.

With this sort of law you might have to wait until people start getting charged with ridiculous things before you can copycat them against politicians, but I don't imagine it should be too hard. Just find out (legally - no breaking and entering of computers, ideally) if the politician or a member of his family views or has any of this material and make a big deal over it. Politicians have proven that as a general group they're definitely not the most upstanding of citizens, they're just a bit better at covering things up than most people

[JustInn14]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

I won't pay to much worry to this, not only is it not directly saying anything about anime/manga as far as I can see, such laws passed in the UK usually turn out to be half baked by someone with too much time on their hands. Now go tackle game violence!

True. I was JUST going to ask i it was refering to Anime/Manga, or, that actual P**n stuff. Probably the latter MAINLY. But, rreally. How mainstream IS anime/manga in the UK? Would 50% of these lawmakers even KNOW what it is? If not, I'll be laughing out loud.

Lol, game violence. That'll be the next thing to be "Banned". Nothing can be really 100% banned, unless, you had a spy looking down upon you 24/7. o_O;

[Sokar]

Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple

Well, it's true sadly. But the a bill that is about to become law will make a lot of anime and manga, as well as almost all hentai anime, and eroge games illegal.

I think you are grossly over reacting. This law doesn't affect a lot of anime and manga, it will certainly affect hentai and eroge games, but that's its intended goal. The work itself, not just an excerpt of the work, must be pornographic in order for the law to apply. My reading of 64 (2-4) and 65 is that non hentai works will not be affected. Works like Naruto that have death in it is not applicable to this bill. I know there are a lot of hentai supporters here but I really don't see how this bill affects the average anime/manga consumer.

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by Sokar

I know there are a lot of hentai supporters here but I really don't see how this bill affects the average anime/manga consumer.

Except perhaps through the fear inherent in the 'slippery slope' principle ...

[Sokar]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Except perhaps through the fear inherent in the 'slippery slope' principle ...

No, there's no slope. Politicians would be daft to let it slope to the point that the non-hentai anime mentioned by the OP will be affected. This isn't directed at anime, it's directed all all media. If it gets to the point that OP fears then normal movies and TV shows will affected, and people simply won't stand for that, not to mention the massive lobbying power of the entertainment industry.

[gabbytay]

Originally Posted by Sokar

I think you are grossly over reacting. This law doesn't affect a lot of anime and manga, it will certainly affect hentai and eroge games, but that's its intended goal. The work itself, not just an excerpt of the work, must be pornographic in order for the law to apply. My reading of 64 (2-4) and 65 is that non hentai works will not be affected. Works like Naruto that have death in it is not applicable to this bill. I know there are a lot of hentai supporters here but I really don't see how this bill affects the average anime/manga consumer.

Making the world a better place by taking away their rights ~nice~


I've finish reading the the bill, surprisingly it was simple enough for lawmakers & Conservatives(extremist) to bend for their own purposes.

Isn't freedom of speech and expression protected by the law. If i were to draw these "extreme pornographic images" would that make a criminal??.

[JustInn14]

Originally Posted by gabbytay

Making the world a better place by taking away their rights ~nice~


I've finish reading the the bill, surprisingly it was simple enough for lawmakers & Conservatives(extremist) to bend for their own purposes.

[Isn't freedom of speech and expression protected by the law. If i were to draw these "extreme pornographic images" would that make a criminal??.

Trust me. The "Other side" will, no doubt, be itching to bend that rule, too.

There WAS a time where it was protected by the law. I wouldn't be too sure about this making "Anime and manga a notch closer to being BANNED in the UK". Otherwise, the bill would have EXPLICITLY stated it was banning anime/manga. Which would be pretty stupid IMO. There's just as much explicit stuff in certain cartoons, as there are, in H-anime/manga. Maybe this makes HENTAI a step closer to being banned, but not, all anime/manga. Otherwise, the Japanese would've probably said Something by now. That's all I have to say about this, really. Catch you later!

[Solais]

Then ban sex, too. Because it's explicit. We'll use cloning instead.

I hope I don't giving ideas for that goverment...

[Sokar]

Originally Posted by gabbytay

Making the world a better place by taking away their rights ~nice~


I've finish reading the the bill, surprisingly it was simple enough for lawmakers & Conservatives(extremist) to bend for their own purposes.

Isn't freedom of speech and expression protected by the law. If i were to draw these "extreme pornographic images" would that make a criminal??.

I don't know where you get the idea that I support this bill. I am simply saying that the OP is grossly exaggerating the impact of the bill. I don't really care to get into the politcal debate. I think the vast majority of people who have read the bill would say that the statement

Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple

"Anime such as Ghost in the Shell, WitchBlade, and the likes of Kimi ga Aruji de Shitsuji ga Ore de, would all be on the forbidden list. As well as manga such as Psychic Academy, Eden, Yubisaki Milk Tea, WitchBlade, DearS, and a slew of others would all be illegal as well."

is untrue.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Sokar

I am simply saying that the OP is grossly exaggerating the impact of the bill. I don't really care to get into the politcal debate.

I agree that the premise of the thread is overblown, but it's still rather significant. It's one step closer to removing some freedoms. It's a slow movement, but it sets a precedent. The next type of legislation would creep forward a bit more, and people would say the same thing: "oh, it was outlawed before, this doesn't really take away our ability to do that much." Just keep pushing it, slowly but surely, and you're outlawing quite a bit (or at least, requiring everyone to pay fees to the government to OK it).

I don't really think it's a political debate so much as a debate over our freedoms. Does the government really have any business doing this? Does it really make society any safer?

[Vexx]

Yes, the OP is engaging in hyperbole since none of that has been decided. However, the *wording* of the bill sucks so badly that it isn't impossible that some very stupid results from it couldn't occur.

"The intent of the bill" is worthless --- its what actually gets WRITTEN down that the courts use to rule on cases. The US is infested with poorly written laws in which exactly such nonsense wastes a lot of everyone's money.