How annoying is it when people inject Japanese into their speech?

[Vexx]

yeah, I know he was.. .I just flipped the comment around to get people out of their mental rut.

Language is fluid and dynamic. The French try and keep their language from being made "impure" by importation and evolution --- it doesn't work, of course.

I'm very fond of language differences and I don't really like seeing Japanese, for example, slurping up so many import words. English, OTOH, has always been a rampaging mugger of languages. It beats them up and takes any word that looks cute.

[Kakashi]

Same would apply if an English story was transated to Japanese. It would probably end up loosing half of its charm and fluency, I don't think English itself is so bad.

[Circular Logic]

To be honest, what strikes me more than the English loanwords in Japanese is the sheer amount of English on advertisements and signs. All of it wrong. ._. </offtopic>

A lot of the English loanwords in Japanese are now part of the language, used (I reckon) unconciously, not just to look cool. Unlike the opposite.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Circular Logic

To be honest, what strikes me more than the English loanwords in Japanese is the sheer amount of English on advertisements and signs. All of it wrong. ._. </offtopic>

A lot of the English loanwords in Japanese are now part of the language, used (I reckon) unconciously, not just to look cool. Unlike the opposite.

agreed, japanese had to use loanwords from not only english but portugese and german sometimes to describe foriegn items, like 'pan' (bread)
Only thing that bugs me about japanese is when they start tossing in katakana in two forms:

1. Writing in it despite the word having a perfectly fine hiragana or kanji evquivalant
2. Or when they use a english word in katakana mixed with a japanese word, to make something 'cool' for their adverts or announcements.

Example: before shippuuden got released, i translated one of the news posts from the tv tokyo site and they ended one with 大ロック！
I looked at it and went 'wtf does dai rokku mean? big rock?!!? huh!?!?!

Eventually i interpreted it to 'the new series will rock hard!'
But japanese should be banned from tossing in random english words in a sea of japanese sentences unless they pass the english version of jplt level 2!
(see 'you are my friend' song, naruto OP 2)
I was homicidal by the time i finshed translating/writing kana out for that tune by ear x.x

So both sides i guess, if a japanese person tries to use english with me, even if its one word, most times it isn't arrogance, it's simply trying to impress me in a nice way or build up their confidence themselves.
I figure the japanese mass media are more at fault with that then normal random people...

Originally Posted by TenguFrog

*sigh* If only my friends were more like you, Mystique. I guess I've only dealt with the noobs.

The kind of crap I get at school consists of people yelling yaoi, etc in class and saying stuff like 'that is so kawaii!!!!!' When the noobs say random things like that they give me this look, like they've got some emotional connection with me. . .It really bugs me. *shudders*

Anywho, like I said earlier, I don't mind people saying / typing things with no English equivalent. I was assuming that the varying sensitivity in some of the more 'cultural' phrases that don't really translate in English would be included in that category.

I've got nothing against you

Was gonna say 'tasukatta!', but I will behave now, lol.
I can see how that kinda bugs you in school, I guess I'm lucky not to come across too many people like that...

[Kang Seung Jae]

For me, it's mainly an issue if the "otakus" inject Japanese into their speech just be act like an "otaku".


It's one thing to try to speak Japanese, but entirely another if it means butchering the language for the sake of sounding "cool".

[Ring'zTerritory]

It's very annoying, lol. It's like...learn the whole language and how to speak it instead of simple words you pick up from animes XD lol

[Astrana]

I hate if someone trying to be a poser, unless you speak the language and u are too stupied to separate it from others it's fine. But pretending to be cool and insert it into ur sentences is really gay

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Mystique

So both sides i guess, if a japanese person tries to use english with me, even if its one word, most times it isn't arrogance, it's simply trying to impress me in a nice way or build up their confidence themselves.
I figure the japanese mass media are more at fault with that then normal random people...

It's not that bad when it's like that though. You kinda find it amusing that they get it wrong but you also don't want to laugh because they really have no malicious/annoying intentions. And, well, they are speaking to a fluent user of the English language in that case (and often not a fluent user of Japanese), and that makes all the difference.

The Western otaku randomly using words and phrases of Japanese, on the other hand, are usually addressing audiences who also don't know much -- or any -- Japanese. In which case their trying to be cool is just them making asses of themselves. Unless they're using it among fellow otakus who accept that, in which case I tend to count it as a subculture dialect of sorts. Just...don't let me hear it and all.

Originally Posted by Astrana

I hate if someone trying to be a poser, unless you speak the language and u are too stupied to separate it from others it's fine. But pretending to be cool and insert it into ur sentences is really gay

My pet peeve is someone using "gay" as an insult.

*sigh* I won't say more; I really need to chill.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

The Western otaku randomly using words and phrases of Japanese, on the other hand, are usually addressing audiences who also don't know much -- or any -- Japanese. In which case their trying to be cool is just them making asses of themselves. Unless they're using it among fellow otakus who accept that, in which case I tend to count it as a subculture dialect of sorts. Just...don't let me hear it and all.

Maybe we should change the title from 'people' to 'otaku', since it seems to be within that group that people claim to be seriously annoying...
I suspect Americans get a worse deal of this kinda thing than over the UK, glad we're still a smallish fanbase over here for the present time, since I've rarely seen that kind of behaviour, lol.
I count myself lucky...

Originally Posted by Irenicus

My pet peeve is someone using "gay" as an insult.

*high fives on that account*
The day it becomes official in here is the day I will chill just a little on it.

[Vexx]

Agreed on the "gay" mischaracterization .... its really so yesterday as an insult anyway .

[raphaël]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Wait... so you're suggesting burning alive all those people in Japan who use a lot of English words in their daily speech to look cool?

That almost sounds... French.

Hey, watch your mouth, jijii. I've been off for a while and really meant to forgive you AND make it up to you since last time but it only seems you're pushing me.

Language is fluid and dynamic. The French try and keep their language from being made "impure" by importation and evolution --- it doesn't work, of course.

Once again, stick to talking about what you know. Who are " the French" you're talking about? Those you see on american or japanese TV? Those you met ? Sarkozy ? The académie française?
Yeah, i suppose French language has got lots of issues since the 19th century and its fall as the first international language ( hurt pride and frustration) , but believe me it evolves a lot, not for the best, but certainly not for the worst either.
Just because no one here cares doesn't mean you can, again, have fun pointing dated clichés like these.
And I am NOT a patriot nor a defender of any language. I do care a lot about those I learned ( English and Japanese, even German) and I made peace with my own. That's all. Let just everything intertwine ( izzat a word?) and let's see what will come out of it.

I just can't stand clichés, and people trying to look brainy. Vexx you're just exactly like the people everyone's bashing up in that thread.



Back on the topic, and mixed vocabularies : I think this kind of way to show up as a cool, trendy person always existed.
Take the real bilingual people : on one hand, i envy and admire the ones who are fluent in both languages, whatever they are, but on the other hand, I really find useless, pretentious and lame when these people constantly mix what they know. Like when they can't make a full speech without skipping constantly from one to the other.

This is when it gets l33ty, pretentious and tasteless.

Anyway : whatever language it might be ( like english in french, or japanese in english, or english in japanese) it is ALWAYS those who actually can't make a sentence in it who will overuse those words they actually can't understand.
Because I think 99% ot the people calling themselves, or other people, "otaku", or finding someone "moe" or a drawing "kawaii" wouldn't ever be able to understand the "concepts" defined in those words...

Well, hope i was clear enough...

oh and,

Agreed on the "gay" mischaracterization .... its really so yesterday as an insult anyway

You know nothing about "real life", don't you? Ever heard of men and women, still aggressed, violated or killed in their homes, sentenced to death in some places, and everything? More simply, loathed at in everyday life? Not being able to stand up for what they are?

I'm straight, but I'm telling you, if you looked around you, or a bit further, you'll understand you're pathetically wrong. This is not yesterday. It's still happening right now, in lots and lots of so-called "civilized" countries.

Whatever... I should be discussing it with a horse instead...


SORRY FOR THE LONG POST IT WAS SOOOOO HISASHIBURI!

[Faeyice]

I'm not really entirely opposed to people injecting Japanese in their speach, as long as it's online. I do it sometimes as well when talking to some of my friends on ims. But that's about it. I never do it outside of the internet, and I rarely do it on forums. IMs? That's an entirely different story. I chose to be random and completely hyper when talking to certain friends. xD It probably depends on the person, for how annoying it is. Different people have different pet peeves.

[Echoes]

I don't use any Japanese words in my everyday language, knowing very little about the language, it would be arrogant of me to try to use phrases I can hardly even understand in their proper context and apply them not only to new situations, but try to mix them in with a new language. Of course, I wouldn't use it even if I did speak it fluently, I would never use it unless I was sure the person I was talking to would understand what I was saying. To just sprinkle your language with Japanese to sound exotic or special is really silly, in my opinion. I'm not that attention craving. If I ever use Japanese, it's in a joking manner, referring to anime cliches and such, with people I know will pick up on it. Then we'll probably have a laugh about how silly we just looked.

Semi off-topic:

I do, however, supplement my native language with English terms, and sometimes even just a word here and there. I think this is more justifiable (though probably still not preferable), as the languages are similar and there are plenty of concepts that I feel are better explained with one English word/phrase than with several paraphrased sentences in my own language. Other times I use English words simply because I cannot remember a good translation for it on the spot, since much of the information I absorb actually is in English, be it youtube, movies or the internets. I've also grown to actually prefer English to my native tongue, although I'd never try to claim that I speak the former well enough to call myself a fluent speaker.

[JustInn14]

Meh, I've gotten used to it. But I always thought "Baka" meant "D'oh" or some reason. Oh, well. :P

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by raphaël

Hey, watch your mouth, jijii. I've been off for a while and really meant to forgive you AND make it up to you since last time but it only seems you're pushing me.




Once again, stick to talking about what you know. Who are " the French" you're talking about? Those you see on american or japanese TV? Those you met ? Sarkozy ? The académie française?
Yeah, i suppose French language has got lots of issues since the 19th century and its fall as the first international language ( hurt pride and frustration) , but believe me it evolves a lot, not for the best, but certainly not for the worst either.
Just because no one here cares doesn't mean you can, again, have fun pointing dated clichés like these.
And I am NOT a patriot nor a defender of any language. I do care a lot about those I learned ( English and Japanese, even German) and I made peace with my own. That's all. Let just everything intertwine ( izzat a word?) and let's see what will come out of it.

I just can't stand clichés, and people trying to look brainy. Vexx you're just exactly like the people everyone's bashing up in that thread.

I was referring to the official government agency in France whose purpose is to try and keep the French language from being over-run by foreign import words. It really does exist. I actually think its a good idea though almost impossible to implement. I happen to *like* diversity in language and think people should be proud of their language. So I think you misunderstood me here.

You know nothing about "real life", don't you? Ever heard of men and women, still aggressed, violated or killed in their homes, sentenced to death in some places, and everything? More simply, loathed at in everyday life? Not being able to stand up for what they are?

I'm straight, but I'm telling you, if you looked around you, or a bit further, you'll understand you're pathetically wrong. This is not yesterday. It's still happening right now, in lots and lots of so-called "civilized" countries.

Whatever... I should be discussing it with a horse instead...

You seem to have a talent for missing my point. I was objecting to the USE of "gay" as an insult by telling people who use the word as an insult that they're out of fashion. Basically if you think I'm anti-gay you completely totally misread my post and my feelings on the subject. You're yelling at someone who's on the same side of the issue as you.

[TenguFrog]

Take the real bilingual people : on one hand, i envy and admire the ones who are fluent in both languages, whatever they are, but on the other hand, I really find useless, pretentious and lame when these people constantly mix what they know.

Well I'm fluent in English and Japanese, but I hardly, if ever mix the two when I'm speaking. The only thing I have problems with are the really difficult Japanese words that I simply don't know because they aren't used in everyday language at all.

I would never use it unless I was sure the person I was talking to would understand what I was saying. To just sprinkle your language with Japanese to sound exotic or special is really silly, in my opinion. I'm not that attention craving. If I ever use Japanese, it's in a joking manner, referring to anime cliches and such, with people I know will pick up on it. Then we'll probably have a laugh about how silly we just looked.

That's what I like to hear.

I've also grown to actually prefer English to my native tongue, although I'd never try to claim that I speak the former well enough to call myself a fluent speaker

I learned both Japanese and English at the same time. I spoke to my mom and brother in Japanese and English to my dad and everyone outside the family. So I guess I don't really know what it's like to have a native tongue. So I treated English as something for outside the house and Japanese as more for at home, that could be the reason why I treat the two languages as something completely separate that I don't mix.

[Lunaki]

oh god, isn't this the issue with every con goer everywhere? I really have a hard time going to one without getting annoyed at the gigantic masses of fangirls (and traps) screaming kawaii or sugoi every 3 seconds. Not to mention at how hard they try to get a high pitched voice D:

[WanderingKnight]

oh god, isn't this the issue with every con goer everywhere?

I wish it was only con goers. I don't go to cons at all, but I've stumbled upon this sort of people at many cultural Japanese events. Ugh...

[raphaël]

Vexx, I don't see where I called you homophobic. Just naive, or blind maybe...

About con goers, I find them literaly pathetic, but hey, if that's what makes them happy and self confident in their taste, why not?

(Yeah, I sometimes happen to be tolerant. )


Anyway, i assume people like Tengu are common and "reasonable" bilingual persons. ^^
how lucky they are...

[Mystic_Blue_Roses]

It's only annoying when it's really excessive. That's what I think. And the word "Kawaii" Get annoying after awhile.