Madoka Magica - Movie 3 Spoilers and Speculations

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Oh I don't know.

We know that Homura told Sayaka the truth in at least one timeline

Yeah, when it was too late to be of any use.


Sayaka: What did you just say?

Homura: We're in hell, and with no way out.

Sayaka: No way. I don't believe you. It's too horrible to accept!

That's the emotional gist of Timeline 3.

Word of God also says there's no way to save Sayaka in any timeline in which she becomes a magical girl.

Also, Mami completely freaks and starts killing everyone if and when she learns that magical girls become witches. Not exactly helpful for her to know...

There was period of time in the final timeline where Mami was dead, and Sayaka was not yet a Puella Magi. Homura could have told Sayaka (and Madoka) the entire truth during that period of time. It could have made a huge difference.

Rebellion Sayaka knows Homura left her in the dark, but she also knows why Homura did,

How can you write that? I don't know why Homura kept Sayaka in the dark during Episode 4. It would have made all the sense in the world for Homura to tell Madoka and Sayaka the complete truth at that point.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Telling Homura could be just as jeopardizing for the reasons darkhalo191 just mentioned. If you tell Homura the truth before you have a concrete plan of action formulated, there's a good chance that Homura goes it alone anyway."

That's okay. But in that case, she shouldn't try to admonish her for going alone later on, since no matter the reason, she left Homura out of the loop in the first place. You see, that's the other side of the coin. Even if you spills the beans, the person you want to help may not work with you, but if you don't, you can be damn sure you won't get that person to work with you. The ball is on you side, so it's to you to make the first move.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's okay. But in that case, she shouldn't try to admonish her for going alone later on, since no matter the reason, she left Homura out of the loop in the first place.

You might have a point here, I'll admit.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

I believe that Homura being the devoted, pragmatic, determined and slightly insane person that she is, will do what she did when Kyuubey confirmed it in the movie. She'll kill herself or complete the witchification and suicide via the Puella Magi.

That's what Homura actually ended up doing. But she didn't know the barrier could be broken with the power of magical girls. If she knew, I don't think she would try to kill herself. If nothing else, it'd have been worth telling her that breaking the barrier was possible with the means they have.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That was Homura actually ended up doing. But she didn't know the barrier could be broken with the power of magical girls. If she knew, I don't think she would try to kill herself. If nothing else, it'd have been worth telling her that breaking the barrier was possible with the means they have.

Don't you think it's possible that this just didn't occur to Sayaka or Nagisa?

I mean, we're getting into pretty nuanced points at this juncture. I can easily see it escaping the character's thoughts.


Edit: In fairness, I take back part of what I wrote to Wanderer. I can see similar nuance escaping Homura's thoughts with respect to Episode 4.

[night_sentinel]

You know I'm not really completely clear on that part. What exactly will breaking the barrier even do for Homura anyway? Isn't she still going to be dead, barrier or no barrier? Her soul gem is about to witch out right?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

You know I'm not really completely clear on that part. What exactly will breaking the barrier even do for Homura anyway? Isn't she still going to be dead, barrier or no barrier? Her soul gem is about to witch out right?

Homura attempted suicide so that Madoka wouldn't need to collect her soul inside the barrier. That way, QB would not be able to see the power of the Law of Cycles in action. Also, when Homura died, they barrier would break and Madoka would be able to scape.

That was Homu's plan. A convoluted plan based on the fact that she didn't know how to break the barrier other than killing herself.

[Wanderer]

Regarding EP4:

Sayaka didn't trust Homura at all, especially after Homura showed up to finish off Charlotte right after Mami was killed.

Sayaka even accused Homura of waiting for Mami to get killed on purpose. Which brings up something else that has always slightly bugged me, and that's that Madoka never cleared up that misunderstanding despite having seen Mami tie Homura up herself.

[Auxilism]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Once the interior barrier (the witch barrier) was broken, Nagisa spots QB's barrier (the barrier he set up around Homu's soul gem). No knowing "where" it was doesn't make sense, since it was everywhere, around the whole dream world. Nagisa just point to it because that's the moment when the barrier was finally visible. Before that point, the witch barrier was blocking the view and QB's barrier couldn't be seen or attacked.

Anyway, it's clear they knew enough to deal with it. Homu going witch wasn't necessary. If anything, it made the whole thing harder to deal with.

Fair enough, I didn't understand what they were talking about. However, I question again, did Sayaka know that they had enough firepower to break the witch's barrier? Homura had turned into a witch already so it was all or nothing then. If Sayaka and Nagisa attacked the barrier and failed, Kyubei might find out what they were up to. Their mission was to thwart Kyubei so they shouldn't risk him finding out what they were up to.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by darkhalo191

If Sayaka and Nagisa attacked the barrier and failed...

Well, that would have been stupid. If I was Sayaka and Nagisa, I would be trying to enlist all the girls into the team for a combined attack on the barrier. That's actually what they did in the end, but by that point Homura was already a witch. I see that as a failure. They shouldn't have waited so long to take actions, and they should have made sure to keep Homu on the team to avoid complications.

[Key Board]

so I have to ask some mythology buffs here

what's the significance of the lizard/salamander?

[marconii2002]

English subbed camrip is out

[Auxilism]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Well, that would have been stupid. If I was Sayaka and Nagisa, I would be trying to enlist all the girls into the team for a combined attack on the barrier.

I was vague and I apologise, I meant if they gathered everyone and attacked.

That's actually what they did in the end, but by that point Homura was already a witch. I see that as a failure.

By that time it was all or nothing already, they would have to unleash an all-out attack to attempt to break the barrier or Homura would die. Before that, it was either maintain status quo (think of a plan other than brute force) or risk Kyubei finding out (attack the barrier anyway).

They shouldn't have waited so long to take actions, and they should have made sure to keep Homu on the team to avoid complications.

Despite what I said above, I agree that the plan of physically doing nothing dragged for too long. Nagisa had an entire month to eat cheese, how much would satisfy her definition of 'again'? Sayaka regretted leaving Kyoko behind so I'd give her a week or so to make it up, especially since Madoka says to Homura that they'll be together forever when she was trying to take Homura's soul so I assume Kyoko would be with Sayaka forever as well when it's her turn to be taken by the Law of Cycles.

That said, I think if either Sayaka or Nagisa explained the situation to Homura and then calmly admit that they did not have a plan, ask her not to do anything by herself and/or plot with them then Homura would not rush off by herself. However, they would have to do this before Homura found out herself in the movie (like I said, about a week after the start of the barrier) so that Homura would not think that they did not want to get out at all, increasing the likelihood of her accepting them as allies (for as long as it would take to get out of the barrier).

Though if Homura runs off anyway, they could have Mami on standby and tie her up before Madoka comes to beg her to listen to them (hugging her if necessary ).

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by darkhalo191

By that time it was all or nothing already, they would have to unleash an all-out attack to attempt to break the barrier or Homura would die.

You make it sound as if they didn't know for sure if they could break the barrier by force. But before the fight begins, I remember Sayaka tells the others "just follow my plan and everything will work out" or something like that. This suggests that Sayaka was aware they have the means to break the barrier at any moment.

I agree with the rest of your post.

[Auxilism]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

You make it sound as if they didn't know for sure if they could break the barrier by force. But before the fight begins, I remember Sayaka tells the others "just follow my plan and everything will work out" or something like that. This suggests that Sayaka was aware they have the means to break the barrier at any moment.

Oh, if that's what she said then I retract the related statements. The subtitles I watched turned into Spanish or some other language when Kyubei was talking to Homura about the technical stuff until upside-down Mami grabs Madoka from behind and tells her to go so I had no idea what they were saying.

[EmagEvil]

Originally Posted by marconii2002

English subbed camrip is out

Yeah. The quality is good, the sound too, the sub is.. Well below so so, but my biggest issue is the cadrage is way too small, we can't see 40% of the screen... Too bad it should be perfect...

[woxx]

Originally Posted by EmagEvil

Yeah. The quality is good, the sound too, the sub is.. Well below so so, but my biggest issue is the cadrage is way too small, we can't see 40% of the screen... Too bad it should be perfect...

Quality is not that good. 1/3 or 1/4 of left part of the screen is cutted.

[Kazu-kun]

Man, I almost feel bad for QB at the end.

He's probably feeling emotions for the first time, and what he feels is utter despair.

[woxx]

So I guess it is explainable now how Homura captured Madokami:

Spoiler for plot:

Usual soulgems are corrupted from despair and sins. But in real world(not dream barrier) Homura corrupted her soulgem with feelings to Madoka(power of love). Madokami always cleans soulgems from despair, but when she came for Homura final time all this mess happened. Homura became some abnormal witch but not witch, because all witches are born from despair. She teared apart Madokami, took over the law of cycles, spreaded her barrier over universe and became Akuma (devil).

If I'm slow and it was posted already, sorry for that.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by darkhalo191

That said, I think if either Sayaka or Nagisa explained the situation to Homura and then calmly admit that they did not have a plan, ask her not to do anything by herself and/or plot with them then Homura would not rush off by herself.

Why? Why do you think that?

What we saw in the TV series makes it clear that Homura prefers to work independently, and that she's not exactly team-oriented in her thinking. Some of Homura's own dialogue and internal monologue reinforces this as well.

I think that Sayaka would have reasonable concern of Homura going off and trying to do something on her own if she explained the full situation to Homura and then admitted that she also has no plan. And in fact, I wouldn't even blame Homura for that.

"You guys have no plan, so it's up to me to get us out of this mess."

That's very in-character thinking for Homura, and there's actually a certain level of respect that I have for that sort of strength and independence.


However, it's also something that I think Sayaka could reasonably be concerned about.