Your thoughts on the growing acceptance of anime...

[shirimashita31]

Do you guys see anime as gradually breaking out of its former niche status and finding mainstream acceptance in the West? Will it possibly grow, stabilize, or fade away from the minds of the public in the years to come?

I think the popularity of anime has grown quite prominent over the years, much of it I think is due to the exposure of it on television. In the U.S. we have had Toonami, Adult Swim, and Syfy giving us a good helping of broadcast anime. While anime isn't quite featured as much on TV in our country nowadays, Hollywood has released quite a few films lately based on well-known anime (Dragonball, Astro Boy, and Speed Racer). Whether or not we as fans enjoyed these adaptations, they do signify an attempt at 'mainstreaming' these titles to a broader audience.

If this trend continues and that Japanese anime is still around in the next decade, I believe there is the potential for anime to not simply be associated with Hello Kitty, Pokemon, or "cartoon porn" in the minds of the vast majority of people in the West. Having the opportunity to be featured on "The Tonight Show" is definitely helping generate exposure to an audience unfamiliar with anime in the U.S., and hopefully more exposure like this will happen in the future.

These are just my thoughts, as optimistic as they may be.

What are your own thoughts on this?

[Oppius]

I actually more worried if anime become too popular or too mainstream. Its much like "now its popular and now its sucked". The same thing happen when in 2002-2004 when Naruto and Bleach not very popular and still cool and only appear in certain scanlation sites but look happen to them now. I just don't want the same thing happened to anime and manga in general.

[Triple_R]

Hhhmmm... I hate to be a downer, but I think that anime might actually start to recede a bit in the west. I don't think that it'll completely fade, but really... I'm not sure if there's a whole lot of anime out there right now that appeals to a mainstream western audience outside of the big three shounen titles.

The publicity given to anime by Conan O'Brien would have helped quite a bit... if there was more anime out there that appealed to a mainstream western audience. As is, I'm not sure if there's enough of it. Consider that even on that Conan O'Brien bit on anime, he was voice acting an old Ghost in the Shell scene. What anime today is like Ghost in the Shell?


I'm not saying that there isn't good anime out there right now (although I do think that this has been a weak year compared to most recent years); just that there's not a whole lot to appeal to wider western audiences beyond the same old, same old of Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece.

[Vexx]

Anime will probably always be a niche hobby (like D&D or SCA or certain types of gaming). As long as the vendors understand this, they'll do well. Trying to mainstream it would just really destroy it, imo.

[wingdarkness]

I don't see a growing acceptance at all..In 2001 I thought having a primetime anime on American television following the success of Cowboy bebop and obviously the Dragonball franchise was a real possibility, nowadays Cartoon network doesn't even air anime until past 2 or 3am in the morning where only necrophiliacs can watch...Anime's popularity has regressed bigtime since 1997-2002 when it was about to burst at the seems in America...Sorry shirimashita31, but beyond Hollywood grasping at straws to make a buck by stealing content from anywhere, this is a conversation more suited for the year 2000...

[Revenger1589]

As people have already said, the popularity of anime is decreasing in the west and it's very difficult to think it could become mainstream anywhere when it's a very niche product in Japan. For animation in general to be accepted by the regular guy, it has to have a very specific content, and most anime people talk about aren't like that.

Japanese producers have realized that it will be almost impossible for their product to be sold to anyone other than otaku, so they focus on that demographic. It's a vicious circle, otaku are the only feasible market so anime becomes more niche and the chances of breaking out are lower.

I don't think anime can make any impact on the west if it has such a small following in Japan.

[dasrune]

agreed, anime peaked in the early 2000s as far as western audiences are concerned. adult swim only keeps anime around so it doesn't look like they've completely given up, which is cool but i wouldn't count on them taking a chance on a series that will only grab the attention of a few die hard anime fans.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Anime will probably always be a niche hobby (like D&D or SCA or certain types of gaming). As long as the vendors understand this, they'll do well. Trying to mainstream it would just really destroy it, imo.

This man speaks the truth.

[shirimashita31]

Originally Posted by Revenger1589

As people have already said, the popularity of anime is decreasing in the west and it's very difficult to think it could become mainstream anywhere when it's a very niche product in Japan. For animation in general to be accepted by the regular guy, it has to have a very specific content, and most anime people talk about aren't like that.

Japanese producers have realized that it will be almost impossible for their product to be sold to anyone other than otaku, so they focus on that demographic. It's a vicious circle, otaku are the only feasible market so anime becomes more niche and the chances of breaking out are lower.

I don't think anime can make any impact on the west if it has such a small following in Japan.

Somewhat related - I have heard elsewhere that the Japanese also depend on foreign sales when it comes to keeping their anime studios afloat. Is this actually true, or are they getting it mostly from hardcore anime fans?

Personally, it wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that if a Japanese studio were to produce something that is specifically aimed towards a Western audience, then they can perhaps try to gain a more mainstream following. Although with the current economy, I'm not sure how feasible it would be for the Japanese studios to even consider reaching out to a wider audience outside of the country.

Anime's popularity has regressed bigtime since 1997-2002 when it was about to burst at the seems in America...Sorry shirimashita31, but beyond Hollywood grasping at straws to make a buck by stealing content from anywhere, this is a conversation more suited for the year 2000...

So, the trend you guys are seeing here would even negate the possibility for a comeback for anime on television? Or perhaps even a second boom?

While America doesn't have prominent anime-only channels like AT-X and Animax, we have carried a few networks that broadcast shows licensed by individual companies (Funimation and ADV). Something like this would have been a dream almost a decade ago, but unfortunately I don't think it really caught on to make it a widespread thing. I think the latter company might have also canceled their channel.

[Revenger1589]

Originally Posted by shirimashita31

Somewhat related - I have heard elsewhere that the Japanese also depend on foreign sales when it comes to keeping their anime studios afloat. Is this actually true, or are they getting it mostly from hardcore anime fans?

Personally, it wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that if a Japanese studio were to produce something that is specifically aimed towards a Western audience, then they can perhaps try to gain a more mainstream following. Although with the current economy, I'm not sure how feasible it would be for the Japanese studios to even consider reaching out to a wider audience outside of the country.

Cases like that are extremely rare and not how the industry works in general. While oversea sales are a factor, most studios wouldn't see a significant difference if they were cut out.

Gonzo became famous for targeting western fans and producing anime with them in mind, but they are practically dead. For all intents and purposes, anime makes money from DVDs and merchandising that's bought by Otaku and nothing else.

The western market is very important to one company in particular, Toei, not so much for the rest.

[wingdarkness]

@ shirimashita31 - Well dude, never say never...Fashion from the 70's, 80's, 90's tend to comeback all the time...In American football right now the trendy style of play is the "Wildcat" offense, something that looks new but was really all the rage in the 1930's-40's (Kinda let my football geek out just now^^)...So yeah it can happen...But it's gonna take an effort by an America television station or company to really push the hell outta something for mainstream... However with the level of pirating and web options to satisfy niche desires, it's not just gonna snowball like it did mid-90's thru 02...Somebody, some big name like a Spielberg or somebody is gonna have to push it and give it the cred to just have a chance to fail...People are barley watching network TV as it is, so I'm not holding my breath...

[shirimashita31]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

So yeah it can happen...But it's gonna take an effort by an America television station or company to really push the hell outta something for mainstream... However with the level of pirating and web options to satisfy niche desires, it's not just gonna snowball like it did mid-90's thru 02...Somebody, some big name like a Spielberg or somebody is gonna have to push it and give it the cred to just have a chance to fail...People are barley watching network TV as it is, so I'm not holding my breath...

Good point, and I agree that as long as the Japanese companies continue to produce anime (and the West continues to buy it from them), then surely there are other chances in the future.

I think Disney may be one big name company that's giving anime a little push into the American mainstream. For a foreign animated film like Ponyo to generate over $15 million at the box office, there's certainly some hope that a company like Disney can successfully market an anime to a broader audience.

Who knows, maybe shows other than Naruto can be broadcasted on a Disney station?

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by shirimashita31

I think Disney may be one big name company that's giving anime a little push into the American mainstream. For a foreign animated film like Ponyo to generate over $15 million at the box office, there's certainly some hope that a company like Disney can successfully market an anime to a broader audience.

Ponyo is a Studio Ghibli film, and Disney has been releasing those in America for the past 11 years, so this isn't really a new trend. Also, the main reason for the Ghibli releases having such commercial success in America is that they are and are marketed as Children's or Family films, like the rest of the Disney movies. Cartoons do well in America as long as they are intended for kids, which has been true for many years, so this isn't really much indication of hope for the majority of anime being a mainstream success in the West.

[Triple_R]

Like I argued over on the Haruhi board on a separate but related issue...

What anime needs in order for animation to break out in the west is the North American equivalent of Grave of the Fireflies.

That is, to say, if North America itself produces a cartoon movie like that, then I can see anime hitting it big in the west.

At this time, I think that a change in attitude towards animation in the west will have to arise from home-grown animation.

Something like Avatar the Last Airbender was a good start, perhaps... but it needs to be a bit more mature than even that.

[Oppius]

I'm afraid if anime getting too popular.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Oppius

I'm afraid if anime getting too popular.

... No offense, but I wonder sometimes if people link to TVTropes just because they think its cool, hip, and trendy to do so... with out even reading the article.

You go through the article linked to above, and it reads to me as rather condemning of the predominant view on anime on this thread (i.e. we'd be better off if anime didn't become popular/mainstream).

There's a lot on that article (at least if you include the examples listed) that would cast Anime Suki in a bad light...

[Kyuu]

Growing acceptance? I thought fandom is way past that stage. Considering - every major (and various minor) US city has at least one anime convention. Anime is all over the Internet.

How many of you were fans during the 90's?

Hollywood has released quite a few films lately based on well-known anime (Dragonball, Astro Boy, and Speed Racer). Whether or not we as fans enjoyed these adaptations, they do signify an attempt at 'mainstreaming' these titles to a broader audience.

This is actually more of a sign of Hollywood getting desperate, as they've seem to run out of original ideas during the past few years.

[Marcus H.]

Honestly, TVTropes is just another version of Encyclopedia Dramatica. No offense to you, Oppius.

For me, I don't think anime isn't still that widely accepted in the West. Yeah, each state holds at least a single convention every year, but that only means that the niche community just increases within a specific state (or you're seeing the same faces in a handful of conventions). Aside from that, anime is pretty much still treated the same way how it was treated back then in the West.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I don't see a growing acceptance at all..In 2001 I thought having a primetime anime on American television following the success of Cowboy bebop and obviously the Dragonball franchise was a real possibility, nowadays Cartoon network doesn't even air anime until past 2 or 3am in the morning where only necrophiliacs can watch...Anime's popularity has regressed bigtime since 1997-2002

Animax Latin America started out as a 100% anime channel. Now days, around half of their programs are none-anime related (i.e: old movies and series).

[Triple_R]

Anime has acceptance in the sense that your average person living outside of Japan could look at an anime school girl drawing and probably distinguish it as "anime" and not just a generic drawing.

So, yes, people in the west know what anime is (which was largely not the case through out most of the 90s)... but that's not the same as saying that there's a lot of interest there in actually watching it.

That sort of mainstream acceptance hasn't been achieved.

The way that you know if an entertainment form has gained that sort of mainstream acceptance in the west is to watch national news stations, and see if their news anchors are doing segments on it or not. So, for example, the game Modern Warfare 2... that has mainstream acceptance. It's on the regular news everywhere lately, from what I've seen.

Until a particular anime show gets that sort of notice...