2011-10-22, 21:18 | Link #3201 | |||
The True Culprit
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Moreover, the red doesn't allow ANYONE to make that damn knock, much less the cousins. The whole thing was basically a setup to implicate Natsuhi since Erika, Lambda, and Bern are all teaming up.
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2011-10-22, 23:38 | Link #3202 | ||||||
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Really? Can you prove that? Because as Will pretty much confirms, a lot of riddles basically break down to it, like lying about door-chains and locks. [/QUOTE] No actually your right there's alot of lies in all the episodes But if you think about Ep5 its different from the other. Battler and Erika Solve the Epitapt so there's no point for beatrice or to them to lie about the knock and the letter. Quote:
Thas what this red told us. Quote:
Well I have a theory that the clock was inacurrate or somebody mess up the clock so that it would sound other than 12:00. if this theory is true then There's a possibility that the Knock happened before 24:00. So if that was the case we don't have any problems with the red truth at all since the one who knock already left the mansion before 24:00. |
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2011-10-23, 01:27 | Link #3203 | ||||
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2011-10-23, 02:28 | Link #3204 | |||
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it is implied that she duck tape every possible entrance. that means she wasn't always present at the front door since all the door was already sealed. now she need to duck taped all the windows.
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Well the idea that the whole thing was just a big lie have many problems in it. for example,they never told erika about the whole knock and the letter thing though. So what is the point of all that? For me it can only make sense if shannon/kanon planned the whole thing for Battler and Erika. To welcome battler and to gave the ring and Possibly her revenge for maria.But in the end it become useless because erika didn't went to dining hall at that time. Quote:
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2011-10-23, 03:02 | Link #3205 | |||||
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No one can enter or leave with Erika knowing. Period. Quote:
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Remember how Virgilia warned that Bern and Lambda would do things that Beato COULD do, but WOULDN'T do? Yea. Quote:
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Yea, she couldn't of done it, technically, but she's the only one not given protection under the Red the way everyone else is.
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2011-10-23, 03:56 | Link #3206 | ||||||
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that red was only affective during this time. Quote:
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to trick us? don't be ridiculous. it doesn't even matter to us since its not relevant to the game. Quote:
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2011-10-23, 07:04 | Link #3207 | |
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Spoiler for Knock and letter:
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2011-10-23, 11:21 | Link #3208 | ||||
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According to Erika, after the gold was discovered, she went with the cousins to the Guesthouse, immediately sealed all outside windows, and then played cards with them until midnight. They were never able to deliver a letter to the mansion before midnight, because Erika was always with them when the knock / letter allegedly happened. Even if one argues that "a cousin might have left while Erika was taping the windows on the opposite side of the guesthouse", it is very likely (almost assured) that she taped the front door immediately behind her, and would have known that someone had left. Quote:
Also, lots of things are implied in the narrative that are simply lies. Narration, dialogue, and red truth imply that Maria recieved the chapel key from Beatrice in Turn, and we all know how that turned out. Quote:
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That was certainly part of it. Because Natsuhi was restricted to her room, noone could observe her actions. However, she can't prove that she was in her room, at all. |
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2011-10-23, 14:56 | Link #3209 | ||||||
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2011-10-24, 00:37 | Link #3210 | ||||||||
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Show me then. Quote:
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2011-10-24, 12:03 | Link #3212 | ||
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Human pieces don't know about the red truth and therefore can't act on it. There's is absolutely nothing stopping the people in the dining room from creating a letter while Natsuhi's group was out of the room and then falsely claiming it was left outside the door. Krauss would have no way to refute it even if he thought it wasn't true.
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We know that Erika was playing cards with the cousins from the time she finished sealing the guesthouse until midnight. Once the family conference began, it was impossible for anyone outside the mansion to affect the inside. Therefore, the only way a cousin could have knocked inside the mansion was if they were already there before the conference started, which in turn means that they must have knocked and returned to the guesthouse before Erika finished the seals. Had they returned later, say during the period Erika was with Nanjo in the library, she wouldn't have seen them playing cards. But you know, that's not a question of the clock being a couple of minutes off anymore, that's a difference of being over an hour early, right? How would anyone not notice that, especially considering (via EP4) that some of them had watches? Not to mention, it would put the knock at nearly the beginning of the conference, and it was shown that the chime and supposed knock happened while everyone was taking a break. This is even though we know the cousins other than Battler returned to the guesthouse before the conference started, which would mean the conference didn't get started right away if we want there to be time for the knocker to come back to the mansion. Also, even if we assume that the clock did chime early, now there's a contradiction with Natsuhi's observations. She went to answer the phone in her bedroom immediately after hearing the chime and didn't leave till morning, but on the other hand, we have red truth saying she was in the hall with Krauss and Genji at midnight.
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2011-10-24, 12:46 | Link #3213 | ||||
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You're very persistent. Can I ask that you describe, chronologically, your theory of "a cousin placed the letter before or after midnight"? I'm not sure how you see them getting around Erika's surveillance.
I will respond, though. Hagurama's post says "There was a letter, but it wasn't found in the hallway as described." The red you posted DOESN'T deny that - it only denies the possibility of someone placing it in the hallway. We are saying that the letter was NEVER "placed in the hallway". Quote:
Also, the gold was found before midnight, and Erika was with the cousins as they returned to the guesthouse. You are then limited to "the letter was placed before the gold was found", in which case it's hardly a riddle at all, as almost anyone could've placed it. Quote:
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During the trial, Beatrice argues that the Cousin's room can be reached by a tree, or ladder, or storm drain. Erika responds that she thought of this already, and sealed ALL of the guesthouse windows, and those seals were intact in the morning. Quote:
That Erika didn't land on the very simple solution of "there was no knock" boggles the mind, because she typically liked to confirm that things actually exist. O_o I appreciate that you're trying to work out a solution that satisfies you more than "everybody lied", but I really, really think the letter is just a thought exercise for us readers, similar to the cheese cutting and coin/cup problem. The exercise being "You can say alot of red that doesn't really prove anything". Erika doesn't even bother trying to solve it again, later. Last edited by Kealym; 2011-10-24 at 12:46. Reason: typo |
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2011-10-24, 15:01 | Link #3214 | |
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2011-10-25, 16:00 | Link #3215 | ||||||
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so lets forget what i said about the seals. Quote:
Now lets compare it to the Correct time. If the Correct time was 12:00 then clock must be 11:30. then if the clock time was 12:00 then the correct time must be 12:30. Now you just said that after erika played with the cousins at 12:00. She left with nanjo and went to the library.i also remember She didn't return to the guesthouse until 1:00. With that in mind i can safely say that george can leave the guesthouse After Erika left the cousin's room. Its 12:00 right? when Erika left. If he left lets say at 12:05 the clock time must be 11:35. That certainly gave him enough time to place the letter and knock on the door. I'll just respond to this paragraph. Quote:
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The first red was talking about the humans "at 24:00" the other two red I think was just an additional info for the first red. If that's the cased then those two red truth was also talking about what happened "at 24:00" . |
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2011-10-25, 16:16 | Link #3216 |
Zurajanai! Katsura da!
Join Date: Jul 2010
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So it sounds like you're going with your wonky clock theory just for the sake of dodging reds and seals rather than logically arriving at that theory. I'm talking about the whodunit, whydunit, and the howdunit. Who would mess up the clock? For what reason would this person mess up the clock by thirty minutes?
Well, howdunit is easy enough I suppose so no need to explain that. |
2011-10-25, 16:46 | Link #3217 | |
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Why dunnit? I think it a revenge they planned specifically for Erika. She's a self proclaimed detective and have a lot of confidence in herself so there's no way that she wouldn't try to find out who place the letter. But Erika never stayed in the dining hall so I don't why they still followed the plan. |
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2011-10-25, 17:23 | Link #3218 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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George or anyone else could sneak out of the guesthouse between 12:00 and 1:00 without Erika knowing, but forget knocking or placing letters, they wouldn't even be able to get into the building.
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2011-10-25, 21:13 | Link #3219 | |
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I never saw that red truth on ep5. Are you sure you certain that this red truth is said in ep5? By the way, this is where I look for all the red truth of umineko. Code:
http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Truth |
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2011-10-25, 21:51 | Link #3220 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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屋敷以外の全員は、親族会議開始後、屋敷内にて何を行なうことも不可能なり。 For everyone outside the mansion, once the family conference began, it was impossible to do anything inside the mansion.
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