[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Ziren]

So I just finished the 4th episode, took me a while by the way. Like, a LONG time.

Spoiler for Episode 4 Tips:

I was checking the TIPS section and noticed that if you EXECUTE Maria she transforms into MARIA, the Witch of Origins. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have noticed this already, but I want to know what are the current theories about it. It would lead me to believe that Maria is only a witch once she is in the Golden Land. In other words, once she is dead. But if she is a witch once she is dead, she might as well not be a witch at all.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ziren

Spoiler for Episode 4 Tips:

I was checking the TIPS section and noticed that if you EXECUTE Maria she transforms into MARIA, the Witch of Origins. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have noticed this already, but I want to know what are the current theories about it. It would lead me to believe that Maria is only a witch once she is in the Golden Land. In other words, once she is dead. But if she is a witch once she is dead, she might as well not be a witch at all.

Spoiler for Tips:

EXECUTING Beato in Ep2 turns her into Suit-Beato. Does that mean that Beato only wears a miniskirt when she's dead?

It's probably just a way of saving space in the TIPS section.

What you really should be looking for in there is the dead fourth Siesta.

And then RESURRECT her. Enter the mindfuck.

[Jan-Poo]

Something in the Q\A thread brought to light something that is worth being discussed

there's one interesting but overlooked fact about Shannon

Six years ago, the maid's stepdaughter also gave off a servant-like vibe, but now, ......you're a full-fledged adult servant. How many years has it been?

This is what Battler said in episode1. This would hint that Shannon was adopted by a maid that worked in the Ushiromiya mansion at the time. That would kinda explain why Shannon was there at the age of 6. However, what happened to that woman? And how could Kanon feel so tied to Shannon if they supposedly parted ways when they were six? Does that mean that they were both adopted by that woman? But then why Kanon didn't live with them?

Anyway if this isn't the usual misunderstanding from Battler, and if Shannon indeed was adopted, then it is very very strange that apart from that quick mention nothing has ever been said about this "mother".

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler for possible episode 2 explanation:

First, the chapel. From red text, Maria had the key at midnight. Either:
a) The crime scene was fully set up and locked by midnight.
b) It wasn't fully done.

If it was fully done, somebody had the key sometime between the last time a parent was seen alive and when the door was locked, and that must have happened before (by red text) Maria received the key prior to midnight. I find this very unlikely.

If it wasn't, then red text indicates only Rosa could have held the key.

---

When Rosa goes to see Kinzo, a gold butterfly lands on her back. Nothing else in this scene requires magic. She later claims to have spoken with Kinzo and confirmed Shannon & Genji's stories.

But ep. 4 reveals Kinzo is already dead. She couldn't have gotten into the room. (Genji didn't give her his key; Kinzo's key was probably still on his body; nobody was in the room to work the autolock.) And she can't have confirmed their stories, because they were false, and Kinzo wasn't there to confirm them anyway.

Given all that, Rosa is extremely suspicious.

My explanation of overall events:

The party was originally set up by Jessica and Kumasawa. (Reasons explained elsewhere.) They locked the chapel, and one of them gave Maria the key after lunch. Rosa managed to sneak into the cousins' room shortly after midnight and removed the key.

2nd twilight:
Jessica had to die before she could explain the truth about the party. Kanon tried to protect her and was also killed. Rosa arranged the crime scene so that it looked like Jessica and Kanon killed each other, and left the door unlocked. (She didn't have a master key herself, and didn't take the time to search for Jessica's key or Kanon's master key.)

Genji & Shannon found the crime scene. They decided to modify the scene to make it look as if Kanon were still alive, and possibly seeking revenge. They unlocked the window and threw his body out of it (or moved it somewhere), locked the door, and painted a circle by the door. (Partly as a trap; anybody saying that wasn't how the crime scene was left.)

Rosa quickly betrayed herself by lying about Kinzo, then getting confused about the changes to the scene. That provided all the confirmation Genji & Shannon needed. Then Battler managed to mess everything up by finding the flaw in the claim; Kanon couldn't have done that because he didn't have a key.

After getting kicked out, Genji & Shannon explained everything to Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda. They composed the story about zombie Kanon's attack as further mindgames against Rosa. (See how Genji took the initiative in giving the story. They had to avoid contradicting each other.)

Not totally sure about the rest, but I'll post later after sleeping.

[Leinne]

A theory for Natsuhi's room in ep2 and George, Gohda and Shannon

Spoiler for Theory:

First of all the red text concerning the room

# The door and the windows were locked from the inside
# There is no fraud or trick, there is no means of secret passage and no hidden place
# Natsuhi's own key was in George's pocket and the inside of the room was closed off
# Only the five master keys were left, and 'Rosa' was holding all of them
# After the master keys came into Rosa's control, never did any of them leave her hands!
# Except for the time when she lent it to Battler to unlock Natsuhi's room.

Well this is about the whole red text for this twilights

This theory is indeed the easiest way to enter in Natsuhi's room with her key in the room.

Natsuhi and Krauss are married basic red text everyone knows its true. It is never stated that there is only one key to her room, since Battler focuses on master keys and Genji says there's only one key. BUt it is strange, because Krauss should sleep some times with her wife in her bedroom and even if he doesn't I don't think Natsuhi wouldn' give him a key to the room. The culprit for this is also obvious, Genji (Gohda's help is not really necessary) is the only person alive by then and only he could have known about the keys.

Theory: After going to the chapel to recover the key from Natsuhi's pocket, Genji followed them and tried to kill them. After that they went to the only safe room, Natsuhi's. But Genji, knowing about what they had gone to do there, took Krauss's key to Natsuhi's room from his pocket and killed them, then, closed the door with Krauss' key and he could have it to Krauss' or not, it's not necessary.
In blue
There is more than one key to Natsuhi's room probably Krauss', the culprit, knowing this fact, retrieved Krauss' key from his corpse, entered the room and killed the three. Furthermore, the culplrit for this crime is Genji, he didn't even need help and would know about the keys

The reason, kill Shannon before she could leak any information about the killings of Kumasawa and Nanjo and also leave no witnesses

More or less my theories for this ep:

Chapel: Rosa poisoned them and with the help of Genji, Kumasawa and najo killed them, she had the key from the beginning and then gave it to Maria

Jessica and Kanon: Jessica didn't die, when beatrice's names the people in the room she says Jessica is also included, but corpses never count as people and Kanon did the whole thing about his name.

Kumasawa and Nanjo: Kanon appears and he recognises his killer Kumasawa, and had also thought everyone but Shannon were the killers and he missed Genji, but killed the other two. After this Genji carries them out tricking Shannon and then he stakes them after killing her alongside George and Gohda.

I don'tknow how the last four died, since Kinzo is dead, maybe Jessica with Kanon, but that I don't know

[ghost_zero5]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

This is what Battler said in episode1. This would hint that Shannon was adopted by a maid that worked in the Ushiromiya mansion at the time. That would kinda explain why Shannon was there at the age of 6.

Actually, it is even more strange because an adoption doesn't make a girl a stepdaughter - which is even more strange if we consider that Shannon is supposed to be an orphan. Only re-marriage does and therefore it also needs a divorce first or that one of them died - in this case the wife of a man with a child would have had to die or divorce. This would also give questions about who was that man and his "ex-wife".
Maybe Kanon is a real child of that "maid" that would mean that the actually would indirectly really be brother and sister and not just because of "emotions".
However, this also gives another question: If Shannon is "furniture" wouldn't that mean that her "dad" and/or "mother" would have to be furniture too and that case I wonder why they even married. After all we learnt it doesn't seem that "furniture" marries or even feels love as long as it is still considered "furniture".



One other "question" (not related to the previous quote):
From what we now know is that Kinzo was already dead and that only 17 persons were on the island. So in Ep4 the "title" Kinzo was passed onto another person that was Kinzo then BUT that would also mean that this person would either have to be one of the other 16 because otherwise there would again be more than 17 persons which however would mean that the main question would be who the "children" would recognize/admit as the new heir. Most likely would be Klaus or another one of Kinzo's childs but that would make a huge amount of information wrong. Especially that Klaus and Kinzo or one of the other three were in the same room together BUT of course, that wasn't watched directly by Battler, so...

Klaus would still be the most likely person as he also met with Kinzo above. If it wouldn't be him but another person, Battler would have been there at the time the others were there, so Klaus meeting one of them in Kinzo's study would be strange.
That the new heir is one of the grandchildren: That would be possible but it would be strange to test all four of them. One of them would have to pretend to be tested - not impossible but kinda strange.

Of course, there is also the possibility that this person is a completely different person from all others but that would mean that at least one more person would have to be that from the beginning - or that that person doesn't even exist and is e.g. played by another person (as e.g. the Kanon = Shannon theory is suggesting) - because otherwise we would again have reached 18 persons and not 17.
However, if that is the case it is likely that this other person was dead from the beginning which would mean that an unknown person X would exist and could be responsible for ALL the killings in all episodes. Of course, it could also mean that in 3 of the four episodes there were only 16 persons on the island.

[rogerpepitone]

"stepdaughter" doesn't necessarily require a remarriage if the parents were never married; if Rosa would marry anybody (other than Maria's biological father), he would become Maria's stepfather.

Has anybody checked the original Japanese for the "stepdaughter" text?

[gtr06]

Maybe Kinzo gave the title to Kanon, or all of the servents since they were present, and/or came in with him. Remember there were a bunch of people (suppose to be the Siesta sisters) in the room doing the killing.

Gohda and Kumasawa escaped. Maybe they were related and some of the other killers died and were among those killed. It would make sense if Genji was accidently killed there or with Jessica later on. Nanjo could have been in on it as well.


For episode 2, I'm assuming Maria is packing poison somewhere. She is the only one who could probably put liquid in food and not have anyone suspect her.

[Chris Rosenkreutz]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

"Has anybody checked the original Japanese for the "stepdaughter" text?

It's 連れ子, which according to the first online dictionary I checked means more like "child from a previous marriage" i.e. she's the maid's daughter and not her husband's, rather than the other way around like "stepdaughter".

Either way, I think Battler may not be being literal. It does say later in EP 1 that Shannon has no parents.

[gtr06]

Originally Posted by Chris Rosenkreutz

It's 連れ子, which according to the first online dictionary I checked means more like "child from a previous marriage" i.e. she's the maid's daughter and not her husband's, rather than the other way around like "stepdaughter".

Either way, I think Battler may not be being literal. It does say later in EP 1 that Shannon has no parents.

Couldn't Kinzo mean by the fact that he "created" Shannon and Kanon might also mean that he slept or IVF with the woman in question and therefore, "created" them? He might have placed them in the orphanage, but I don't think the one winged tattoo is easy to earn.

Genji has served almost his whole life so he deserves it, his children and their children are blood related so they deserve it. I wouldn't think that Shannon and Kanon deserved it at such a young age just because they were "created" through a process of cloning or magic. They have to be blood related.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by gtr06

Couldn't Kinzo mean by the fact that he "created" Shannon and Kanon might also mean that he slept or IVF with the woman in question and therefore, "created" them? He might have placed them in the orphanage, but I don't think the one winged tattoo is easy to earn.

Genji has served almost his whole life so he deserves it, his children and their children are blood related so they deserve it. I wouldn't think that Shannon and Kanon deserved it at such a young age just because they were "created" through a process of cloning or magic. They have to be blood related.

Kinzo has to be at least in his 80's by the time 1986 comes around. Unless he has some kind of super sperm I highly doubt he could impregnate someone at around 70.

[Kitsu]

Kinzo has to be at least in his 80's by the time 1986 comes around. Unless he has some kind of super sperm I highly doubt he could impregnate someone at around 70.

Super sperm?? You know it's Kinzo we are talking about. The almighty Goldsmith xDD
But well...maybe Rudolph had a little fun

[rogerpepitone]

Men can remain fertile into old age. For example, Charlie Chaplin ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000122/bio ), born 1889, fathered his last child ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0152237/ ) in 1962, at the age of 73.

[gtr06]

I think maybe Rudolf the play boy or Krauss might have had some uNF.

[gtr06]

From Shamisen: http://rogerpepitone.webs.com/uminek...eko-notes.html

Asmodeus: When Eva is killed in ep. 1, Jessica, Maria, and Battler are still alive. When Jessica is killed in ep. 2, Maria, Rosa, and Battler are still alive. When Rudolf is killed in ep. 3, Eva, Jessica, and Battler are still alive.
This is the odd one. Elimination suggests Rudolf was the intended victim for this stake, though he is in no way close to Kanon.

Kanon/Shannon is the original Battler theory? Kanon can't remember his name...

[ghost_zero5]

Originally Posted by Chris Rosenkreutz

It's 連れ子, which according to the first online dictionary I checked means more like "child from a previous marriage" i.e. she's the maid's daughter and not her husband's, rather than the other way around like "stepdaughter".

Either way, I think Battler may not be being literal. It does say later in EP 1 that Shannon has no parents.

Actually, that is why I said that this "stepdaugther" business is even more strange than already thought.

[Kitsu]

Since is kinda dead hear I go with a theory!


Rudolph and Kyrie are the second Twilight in the third game. Maria and Rosa still belong to the first twilight. At least one persons death in the first twilight was fake and that person was either Kanon or Shannon. Now we can go in two directions
Both Kanon and Shannon's death was fake (would explain the latter scenes with reviving and that crap) and Kinzo counted as sacrifice
or
Kinzo counted and only one of them survived


Reasoning:
Till then the victims of the second twilight were always staked. Rosa and Maria weren't. There was a lot of mentioning on how close Rudolph and Kyrie are. It would explain the reviving of both Kanon or Shannon in the end. Till then the second twilight was always a pair of lovers, I wouldn't call Maria and Rosa lovers.
I also believe that
George and Jessica aren't the second twilight in the forth game
What do you guys think?

[gtr06]

Didn't think Genji would "kill them" especially with that much power. It was just to make them appear dead.

[Daskapital]

i want to know how to run Unimeko in MAC OS X 10.5.8?
i downloaded a software called ONSlauncher, so i can run Unimeko in japanese.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Daskapital

i want to know how to run Unimeko in MAC OS X 10.5.8?
i downloaded a software called ONSlauncher, so i can run Unimeko in japanese.

This kind of question should be posted in this thread:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=65140

For your question, did you follow the directions from the following link already?
http://witch-hunt.com/stage.html

I've never installed on a Mac but it says you don't have to worry about setting your computer to work with Japanese.