Toradora! - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[typhonsentra]

I'm also reading his opinions on the episode and I'd like some clarification on what he means by cluttered. Do you mean too many scenes in different locations or too many themes? How can it be cluttered by incorporating domestic problems when that's something that's so central to Taiga's life? These problems are why Taiga is living next to Ryuuji in the first place and you're upset they're dealing with the final aspect of them (Taiga's dad ending his financial support and her mom taking her away) in the second to last episode? Would you prefer they didn't bring it up at all? As for Yasuko and her problems we've known about this issue for a while now, and as Taiga says she views her as an important part of her family. Isn't it natural they'd want to help her like this, especially considering that this is the end of the series and how her past ties up with what her and him were going to do?

I can respect you for taking an unpopular opinion in an official thread and admittedly my interpretations of aspects of this show have ended up being wrong many many times but from what you wrote on your blog it seems to me that you can't quite put your finger on what you disliked about it. Give it some time and it might fit together better. In particular Minori's explanation in the infirmary that you and your friend disliked.

Spoiler:

Remember her face after he said he'd go look for Taiga too? After that she'd accepted what that meant. In the exchange what she's doing is answering everything he might've wanted to know in the past but now no longer matter. Every time he tries to talk she interrupts him ("Kushieda..." "That is....") and goes on without acknowledging his words because she knows he doesn't feel the same way about her anymore and that her confession and rejection of the hairpin matter at this point. She was trying to end everything on her own terms. The scene is basically what she said to Takasu at the end of episode 19 come full circle. Except this time instead of trying to keep him from confessing to her she's keeping him from rejecting her.

[Kijuto]

Anyone care to explain or take a guess at what the next episode's preview was all about? It sounded like something bad is going to happen far different than the novel.

[Sinfully Naomi]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Ryuuji really isn't this though. He has it tough, but not THAT tough.



Dumb kids are dumb. One of the many laws in life.

The way you said it, it made it seem like you think all 18-year olds don't have any life experience sorry.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

The way you said it, it made it seem like you think all 18-year olds don't have any life experience sorry.

Ryuuji and Taiga really don't.

And I'd argue that you'd really have to go to college, leave home, experience a lot of people/places, to really have anything resembling life experiences.

I certainly haven't had much of what I'd call life experience. But then again, I live in a small town.

Originally Posted by FatalMemory

Calling something copied and pasted straight from the novels "rushed" is hilarious.
I love the justifications (or plain blind criticism?) that some people come up with.

Anyway, for me the story went downhill after Taiga's dad showed up and this episode is definitely no exception.

It's not copied and pasted straight from the novels, that's the problem.

The novels have a lot more insight into the thoughts of the characters and their motivations, and draw the scenarios out a lot more.

Again, I've said it before. Toradora succeeds as a show and not as an adaptation, where something like Index succeeds as an adaptation but not as a show.

Originally Posted by Kijuto

Anyone care to explain or take a guess at what the next episode's preview was all about? It sounded like something bad is going to happen far different than the novel.

What Taiga does to Ryuuji in the novel is pretty evocative of what she's saying in the preview.

[Anh_Minh]

It's not merely that they want to stay together. They want to escape.

Ryuji wants to escape his feelings of guilt about "ruining" Yasuko's life. I don't think it's so much that he resents Yasuko having expectations of him, or her wanting him to work hard at his studies. It's that whenever she pushes him to study, he feels she regrets having been a teenage mother and having to drop out of school.

Taiga wants to escape families she feels she isn't a part of. Well, it's pretty obvious why she'd feel that way about her father. Her mother... I guess it's because of her new husband and kid? Honestly, I have a harder time understanding Taiga. I feel there's something there, but I can't quite grasp it.


They're not dumb. They knew it was a bad idea almost as soon as they formulated it. They just can't help themselves.

As for the grandparents - I don't think we've got enough data to know what that's about. But I trust Yasuko, and it was her idea. Unless it was Inko's, and I trust Inko even more.

[FatalMemory]

It's basically summarizing what happens in the novels though.
I doubt it'd matter if they spent a month instead of a week adapting it, episodes can still only have about 21 minutes of story.

Index isn't too bad, it's as if they took the Toradora out of Shana.

[Traece]

I'm totally not going to lie. This episode was definitely not one of the best, if even close.

The confession was just... It just seemed so thrown in. There was a lacking of serious connection in it. This whole thing sort of ruined it for me, having that sort of confession, and then them deciding to run away (even though they know it's a horrible idea), and them already basically becoming husband and wife.

It was just so rushed, there wasn't even time for any romantic moments.

I don't know, I still like Toradora!, but this was a bit disappointing for me.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by FatalMemory

It's basically summarizing what happens in the novels though.
I doubt it'd matter if they spent a month instead of a week adapting it, episodes can still only have about 21 minutes of story.

Index isn't too bad, it's as if they took the Toradora out of Shana.

This episode needed about three episodes, in all honesty.

And Index is just exposition. Constantly. Non-stop. Just like in the books.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Traece

I'm totally not going to lie. This episode was definitely not one of the best, if even close.

The confession was just... It just seemed so thrown in. There was a lacking of serious connection in it. This whole thing sort of ruined it for me, having that sort of confession, and then them deciding to run away (even though they know it's a horrible idea), and them already basically becoming husband and wife.

It was just so rushed, there wasn't even time for any romantic moments.

I don't know, I still like Toradora!, but this was a bit disappointing for me.

I agree, but for different reasons.. its more like.. i dont really like the direction this is heading.. after such a powerful previous episode, i want to see proper conclusions.. bah and a happy ending

[Vexx]

Hmmm, I won't deny the episode ends up looking like a series of five second video clips of what actually transpired over a significant length of time.... kind of a Blair Cloverfield witchmonster summary of the events. Even as a stand alone storytelling (ignore the novel completely), it comes off a bit shortchanged.

I'll just keep saying I think a 3-cour run would have helped a LOT.
The choppy event pace garnered a "7" but individual scenes of wonder brought it up to an "8" for me.
edit: actually, some regret at that vote... should have been "6" and "7" but too late.

There are many legitimate complaints about the episode (filtering for hyperbole) but there is also a fair bit of pathetically disguised 'shipping blooming as just 'hating'

[Anh_Minh]

Really? I thought it was between 12 and 24 hours. It happened very fast, but eh.

[germanturkey]

maybe its because i'm getting old, but the sheer retardedness of their actions put me off.. i was also expecting more out of the Minorin and Ami moment after everyone had left. but i was disappointed there as well.

i was half expecting Ya-chan to pull a nice boat when he got home. left hanging there too unfortunately.

[maxpepper]

how anybody can give this ep a 10 or anything above a 5 blows my mind.

hands down one of the worst toradora episodes.

I... have nothing else to say.

episode blew donkey sausage.

[Keio]

Finally watched the subs. Individual scenes made an impact on me; however with the way the events flowed, one can feel that the episode was rushed and was pieced together rather quickly. IMO if they didn't put in the 2 filler episodes (ep 3 and 4 IIRC) and used those for this one, this episode wouldn't feel so cramped. I just barely understood what was happening and fortunately was able to connect the dots.

Gave the episode a 9/10 if only because I could relate to what is happening to the main cast since I was as stupid as them when I was younger.

As a side note, people seem to forget that their culture is vastly different from ours. So the strange things they do may seem odd and stupid to most, but maybe it makes perfect sense there. I don't know.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by maxpepper

how anybody can give this ep a 10 or anything above a 5 blows my mind.

hands down one of the worst toradora episodes.

I... have nothing else to say.

episode blew donkey sausage.

I tend to think that it's more useful to say why you disliked an episode rather than simply bitching that some people don't agree with you.

I have noticed that the episode ratings skew pretty high, but that's normal for fan polls... most fans run on a 7 to 10 scale, really. Not surprising, the people who don't like the show aren't watching this late in the series.

[DragoZERO]

Not the best episode but it was pretty good none the less. We had our comedy thrown in nicely too. And what's with getting married right off the bat? I think I've seen it in other series too.. is it a Japanese thing or something?

And I think it would have been good if they had one or two time jumps to use as a semi-good excuse for not having the development we would have needed.

Originally Posted by Traece

I'm totally not going to lie. This episode was definitely not one of the best, if even close.

The confession was just... It just seemed so thrown in. There was a lacking of serious connection in it. This whole thing sort of ruined it for me, having that sort of confession, and then them deciding to run away (even though they know it's a horrible idea), and them already basically becoming husband and wife.

It was just so rushed, there wasn't even time for any romantic moments.

I don't know, I still like Toradora!, but this was a bit disappointing for me.

Well, we had more than one confession in this episode. But there was definitively no connection with it. I think them running away like that is pretty stupid too.

[SageGaiGar]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Hmmm, I won't deny the episode ends up looking like a series of five second video clips of what actually transpired over a significant length of time.... kind of a Blair Cloverfield witchmonster summary of the events. Even as a stand alone storytelling (ignore the novel completely), it comes off a bit shortchanged.

I'll just keep saying I think a 3-cour run would have helped a LOT.
The choppy event pace garnered a "7" but individual scenes of wonder brought it up to an "8" for me.
edit: actually, some regret at that vote... should have been "6" and "7" but too late.

There are many legitimate complaints about the episode (filtering for hyperbole) but there is also a fair bit of pathetically disguised 'shipping blooming as just 'hating'

Having a scale of 1-10 kind of skews all over the place. But I think most of the 1s are just people 'trolling/hating'. There are moments of brilliance in the ep, but it suffers from trying to condense too much into a 23-25 min section.

People are getting as overblown as the chars though, it's pretty clear that atleast Ryuuji is reconsidering all the 'plans' he was making on running away and getting married. Should be getting in the next ep the step back and think over.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Not the best episode but it was pretty good none the less. We had our comedy thrown in nicely too. And what's with getting married right off the bat? I think I've seen it in other series too.. is it a Japanese thing or something?

And I think it would have been good if they had one or two time jumps to use as a semi-good excuse for not having the development we would have needed.


Well, we had more than one confession in this episode. But there was definitively no connection with it. I think them running away like that is pretty stupid too.

mmm.. yeah there are a couple. when someone mentions right off the bat marriage, i immediately think of itazura na kiss. that worked out pretty well though.. i dont get the feeling or (hope it doesnt atleast) that theyll actuall get married.. while in other series, yes, i could imagine that.. but i feel toradora could be an exception.. it would just be.. too out of place. atleast an immediate off the bat marriage.

[Zek]

Originally Posted by Traece

I'm totally not going to lie. This episode was definitely not one of the best, if even close.

The confession was just... It just seemed so thrown in. There was a lacking of serious connection in it. This whole thing sort of ruined it for me, having that sort of confession, and then them deciding to run away (even though they know it's a horrible idea), and them already basically becoming husband and wife.

It was just so rushed, there wasn't even time for any romantic moments.

I don't know, I still like Toradora!, but this was a bit disappointing for me.

It's not supposed to be a picture perfect happy ending. The fact that the moment ended up being ruined because of their family problems makes it a little tragic. We're not supposed to approve of the way they're handling things either. They're impatient teenagers making a rash decision. I think it adds some down-to-earth realism to what would otherwise be a pretty cheesy ending.

[Vexx]

aye... polls skew towards 8 rather than 5 on most series. I'll happily admit that my "average" for any series is usually "8" ... if it drops to 6 or below I drop it.

I don't think ya'll want me browsing through every series I think is garbage and voting "1-5" for every episode. Or... do you?


Backseat driving at what Taiga/Ryuuji/et al "should have done" is easy..... they were working with the data they had and the careening emotions since the ski trip. So yeah --- teenage angst ftw...