AnimeSuki Forums

Tak · 2006-09-05, 17:27

My problem with WING? Lots...

But lets keep it simple. I enjoyed Wing from the beginning, it was indeed great. However, half way through, I found myself utterly annoyed with Heero's indecisiveness and lack of over-all improvement as a character. Relena's simplistic political ideology also irked me to no end. She had power in her hands, but simply refused to exercise it. WHY!?

I give it 6/10

- Tak

vblaze101 · 2006-09-05, 21:27

Ok, something I was thinking about. As I mentioned earlier, I have issues with the "plot armor" in Wing. So, let's say we axe the plot armor. Therefore, Heero dies when he self detonates Wing Gundam. Treize, even though he took a lot of fire from the other Leos, we'll give him a benefit of a doubt. So, with Heero out of the picture, I'd presume Duo would be the one to replace him. Now here comes the icky part.

Scenario 1: Trowa's Vaeyette(sp?) still blows up, but he actually dies this time around. To be honest, in this scenario, I'd expect both Duo and Trowa to die at Quatre's hands since Duo wouldn't show Quatre the amount of agression Heero would. So quite frankyl, I'm very interested in seeing people elaborate on this scenario.

Scenario 2: Duo in Mercurius dies at Quatre's hands. Now, this, IMHO, is the more reasonable of the two. Trowa's open-hearted reaction to Quatre in episode 24 seemed a little out of place to me, since his character showed any chance of lightening up, with the possible exception of not self-detonating because of Catherine's tears. Therefore, it makes more sense to me that Duo, who has that friendly, open nature, would attempt to befriend Quatre and get bitten. Besides, I think that Duo's death would have a much bigger impact on the audience that Trowa's death would. Now, with Duo out of the picture, that leaves Quatre, Trowa, and Wu Fei. Obviously, Wu Fei's character would now have the opportunity to play an even bigger role in the series (and more than likely would have to).

But who would be the main character, Quatre or Trowa? I won't lie, I'd have to say Quatre has more of the elements needed for the main character, but........still, honestly, I can't picture him in that final battle with Zechs. So, in truth, part of me wants to lean towards Trowa. Now, of course, changes would more than likely have to be made to the story. I don't know if Hilde would have to be axed out, but if at all possible, she'd have to be introduced somewhere earlier in the story (still as a colonial volunteer soldier for OZ though). And if Trowa was the main character , you'd somehow have to work in an inevitable rivalry between him (in Wing Zero) and Zechs (in Epyon). [Wipes sweat off forehead] All the possibilities just make my head spin. If anyone wants to take any of this somewhere, please feel free, I'd love to see what people have to say.

Crusader · 2006-09-06, 16:54

I would have liked to see Trieze pilot the epyon, but all in all it still serves as one of my favorite series.

grandmaster192 · 2006-09-06, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusader

I would have liked to see Trieze pilot the epyon, but all in all it still serves as one of my favorite series.

Trieze isn't skilled enough to pilot the Epyon. Thats why he gave it away in the first place.

Skyfall · 2006-09-06, 18:06

What would make you to think that - Treize never showed any lack of skill while piloting (not like he got to do that much, but anyways)

grandmaster192 · 2006-09-06, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyfall

What would make you to think that - Treize never showed any lack of skill while piloting (not like he got to do that much, but anyways)

It's been a long time since I seen the episode but I remember him giving Heero the Epyon because he couldn't pilot it....or something like that. I would think (judging from the stuff he always said) That he knows Zechs is better....Thats why he gave Zechs the tallgeese instead of using it himself. I think it the same can be said for Heero and the Epyon.

Crusader · 2006-09-06, 21:04

Hmm, well Trieze did say that when he piloted epyon, it showed him that he had no future.

4Tran · 2006-09-06, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Zechs was cool! He was like Sephiroth, just less contrived! Just put him in a black trenchcoat with grey shoulder pads and give him a six foot long katana!

Actually, I'd say that Zechs and Sephiroth are different in just about every way that matters.

In particular, Sephiroth was nuts, and wanted to destroy the world to gain power. That counts as the entertaining form of insanity.
Zechs was nuts, and wanted to destroy the world to... make it a better place!? That's the non-entertaining stupid form of insanity.

In addition, Zechs flip-flops on his actions more than a pancake chef. This kind of inconsistency is usually reserved as the province of bad characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster192

So you pretty mutch want things to be like the CE with all that cry baby not enough ass kicking/action?

I'm pretty much with Nightengale here. I'm not much of an action fan, so I don't really care if there isn't very much combat. The only time I really care for it is if it's realistic and well presented. Otherwise, good writing and dialogue are far more important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagr81

i think he wanted tos how the horra of war. to do something so bad, that no one would want another war

I'm afraid that World War I pretty much proved that that ideal is a complete myth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster192

Trieze isn't skilled enough to pilot the Epyon. Thats why he gave it away in the first place.

I've always thought that a melee-only mobile suit was a pretty dumb idea.

grandmaster192 · 2006-09-07, 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I'm pretty much with Nightengale here. I'm not much of an action fan, so I don't really care if there isn't very much combat. The only time I really care for it is if it's realistic and well presented. Otherwise, good writing and dialogue are far more important.

So your telling me you could watch a gundam show with 50 episodes and no fighting? Thats truly amazing.

Anh_Minh · 2006-09-07, 02:58

Better than "Whee! Look at that! We're fighting! Just because we feel like it!"

4Tran · 2006-09-07, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster192

So your telling me you could watch a gundam show with 50 episodes and no fighting? Thats truly amazing.

While it's sort of silly to have a war anime without any combat in it, that doesn't mean that it has to be chock-full of action either. Arguably, some of the best war anime don't really have that much action in them: Crest/Banner of the Stars, Twelve Kingdoms, and Voice of a Distant Star are examples of this. The beginning of the Legend of Galactic Heroes also has fighting every 2-3 episodes as well. Not entirely coincidentally, all of these works are either original anime, or based off of novels.

As for your question; sure, I'll watch a well-written Gundam show with little to no fighting in it. Action only really piques my interest if it's well done, and I think that most of it in Gundam shows falls short of that to begin with.

Tak · 2006-09-07, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran

While it's sort of silly to have a war anime without any combat in it, that doesn't mean that it has to be chock-full of action either. Arguably, some of the best war anime don't really have that much action in them: Crest/Banner of the Stars, Twelve Kingdoms, and Voice of a Distant Star are examples of this. The beginning of the Legend of Galactic Heroes also has fighting every 2-3 episodes as well. Not entirely coincidentally, all of these works are either original anime, or based off of novels.

LOL. That isn't fair. Using Legend of the Galactic Heroes as an example. The novels were an instant classic, and still my favorite books of all-time. The political intrigue in it can very well be war itself, battles of words, words that kill.

And the wars are depicted realistically, obviously because it isn't about one ship masscring the entire battlefield.

And Pennon of the Stars done something more, although the main characters had little to no impact on the war, the novel still managed to make them incredibly interesting.

- Tak (Dr. Yoshiki Tanaka is a genius)

Crusader · 2006-09-08, 07:16

About zechs, He just didn't have the vision that his UC counter part had. I mean the only reason he was with OZ was to free the Sanq kingdom, but after he did that, he didn't have anything else to do really. Trieze thought he was done being zechs, but he ask to serve him a little longer. He claimed he wanted to show the world a big bad war, but in all reality he was after Heero.

The problem with wing in my opinion story wise, was the way the pushed white fang onto the picture. Zechs was supposedly gathering info about the colonies, but he seemed to be wasting his time if he didn't find out anything about them. THe fact that they "learned everything from Trieze's OZ" makes it even worse.

fizzmaister · 2006-09-09, 01:45

simple explanation of Zechs's later going to the white fang.

all you guys that have a younger sister, how far would you go to make sure that a guy like Heero doesn't get it on with her?

Skyfall · 2006-09-09, 08:40

What girl would want to get it on with a guy like Heero anyway :P

Nightengale · 2006-09-09, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyfall

What girl would want to get it on with a guy like Heero anyway :P

Someone as insane as he is, though is more subtle about it.

Relena.

Tak · 2006-09-09, 10:02

No kidding, ever noticed how much of a stalker Relena is?

- Tak

Silent Soldier · 2006-09-09, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak

No kidding, ever noticed how much of a stalker Relena is?

- Tak

Oh yes she followed Heero all the way to Antartica just to "deliver a letter" to him and she also stands on the edge of cliffs screaming to the distance "Heero I am right here come and get me" she was apparently willing to die at the hands of Heero just to see him again. Now that is one crazy girl

.

Skyfall · 2006-09-09, 15:55

She is just plain stupid, thats all.

Also, i would love to see something like this

Relena stands on the cliff calling out in the distance "heero, im here, come and kill me"

*A misile apears at the horizon and goes straight at relena and blows her up*

<insert Heero maniacally laughing>

4Tran · 2006-09-09, 22:25

I think that Relena is maligned more than she deserves. Part of the problem is that even though she's the female lead, she doesn't really have any impact on the story until the Sanc Kingdom arc. The creators tried to give her some sort of role, but they didn't really succeed at it. Still, I found her a fairly entertaining character – her best moment was when she put the screws to Duke Dermail. Relena's still nuts, but the same goes for all the other characters in Wing. I'd say that she contributed more to the show than she detracted from it.

As an aside, I tried watching Wing several years ago, but I originally gave up on it because the dialogue was so inane. The only reason that I picked it up again was <i>because</i> of Relena, and because I found out that her seiyuu was Yajima Akiko – her performance in Figure 17 was a real tour de force.

2006-09-06, 16:54	Link #63
Crusader Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Texas	I would have liked to see Trieze pilot the epyon, but all in all it still serves as one of my favorite series. __________________ The times may change, but human nature never will.

2006-09-06, 18:06	Link #65
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	What would make you to think that - Treize never showed any lack of skill while piloting (not like he got to do that much, but anyways) __________________

2006-09-06, 21:04	Link #67
Crusader Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Texas	Hmm, well Trieze did say that when he piloted epyon, it showed him that he had no future. __________________ The times may change, but human nature never will.

2006-09-08, 07:16	Link #73
Crusader Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Texas	About zechs, He just didn't have the vision that his UC counter part had. I mean the only reason he was with OZ was to free the Sanq kingdom, but after he did that, he didn't have anything else to do really. Trieze thought he was done being zechs, but he ask to serve him a little longer. He claimed he wanted to show the world a big bad war, but in all reality he was after Heero. The problem with wing in my opinion story wise, was the way the pushed white fang onto the picture. Zechs was supposedly gathering info about the colonies, but he seemed to be wasting his time if he didn't find out anything about them. THe fact that they "learned everything from Trieze's OZ" makes it even worse. __________________ The times may change, but human nature never will.

2006-09-09, 01:45	Link #74
fizzmaister The Tall One Join Date: Jan 2006	simple explanation of Zechs's later going to the white fang. all you guys that have a younger sister, how far would you go to make sure that a guy like Heero doesn't get it on with her? __________________

2006-09-05, 17:27	Link #61
Tak Catholic = Cat addiction? Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MURICA!!	My problem with WING? Lots... But lets keep it simple. I enjoyed Wing from the beginning, it was indeed great. However, half way through, I found myself utterly annoyed with Heero's indecisiveness and lack of over-all improvement as a character. Relena's simplistic political ideology also irked me to no end. She had power in her hands, but simply refused to exercise it. WHY!? I give it 6/10 - Tak

2006-09-05, 21:27	Link #62
vblaze101 Member Join Date: May 2006	Ok, something I was thinking about. As I mentioned earlier, I have issues with the "plot armor" in Wing. So, let's say we axe the plot armor. Therefore, Heero dies when he self detonates Wing Gundam. Treize, even though he took a lot of fire from the other Leos, we'll give him a benefit of a doubt. So, with Heero out of the picture, I'd presume Duo would be the one to replace him. Now here comes the icky part. Scenario 1: Trowa's Vaeyette(sp?) still blows up, but he actually dies this time around. To be honest, in this scenario, I'd expect both Duo and Trowa to die at Quatre's hands since Duo wouldn't show Quatre the amount of agression Heero would. So quite frankyl, I'm very interested in seeing people elaborate on this scenario. Scenario 2: Duo in Mercurius dies at Quatre's hands. Now, this, IMHO, is the more reasonable of the two. Trowa's open-hearted reaction to Quatre in episode 24 seemed a little out of place to me, since his character showed any chance of lightening up, with the possible exception of not self-detonating because of Catherine's tears. Therefore, it makes more sense to me that Duo, who has that friendly, open nature, would attempt to befriend Quatre and get bitten. Besides, I think that Duo's death would have a much bigger impact on the audience that Trowa's death would. Now, with Duo out of the picture, that leaves Quatre, Trowa, and Wu Fei. Obviously, Wu Fei's character would now have the opportunity to play an even bigger role in the series (and more than likely would have to). But who would be the main character, Quatre or Trowa? I won't lie, I'd have to say Quatre has more of the elements needed for the main character, but........still, honestly, I can't picture him in that final battle with Zechs. So, in truth, part of me wants to lean towards Trowa. Now, of course, changes would more than likely have to be made to the story. I don't know if Hilde would have to be axed out, but if at all possible, she'd have to be introduced somewhere earlier in the story (still as a colonial volunteer soldier for OZ though). And if Trowa was the main character , you'd somehow have to work in an inevitable rivalry between him (in Wing Zero) and Zechs (in Epyon). [Wipes sweat off forehead] All the possibilities just make my head spin. If anyone wants to take any of this somewhere, please feel free, I'd love to see what people have to say.

2006-09-07, 02:58	Link #70
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	Better than "Whee! Look at that! We're fighting! Just because we feel like it!"

2006-09-09, 08:40	Link #75
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	What girl would want to get it on with a guy like Heero anyway :P __________________

2006-09-09, 10:02	Link #77
Tak Catholic = Cat addiction? Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MURICA!!	No kidding, ever noticed how much of a stalker Relena is? - Tak

2006-09-09, 15:55	Link #79
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	She is just plain stupid, thats all. Also, i would love to see something like this Relena stands on the cliff calling out in the distance "heero, im here, come and kill me" A misile apears at the horizon and goes straight at relena and blows her up <insert Heero maniacally laughing> __________________

2006-09-09, 22:25	Link #80
4Tran Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I think that Relena is maligned more than she deserves. Part of the problem is that even though she's the female lead, she doesn't really have any impact on the story until the Sanc Kingdom arc. The creators tried to give her some sort of role, but they didn't really succeed at it. Still, I found her a fairly entertaining character – her best moment was when she put the screws to Duke Dermail. Relena's still nuts, but the same goes for all the other characters in Wing. I'd say that she contributed more to the show than she detracted from it. As an aside, I tried watching Wing several years ago, but I originally gave up on it because the dialogue was so inane. The only reason that I picked it up again was <i>because</i> of Relena, and because I found out that her seiyuu was Yajima Akiko – her performance in Figure 17 was a real tour de force. __________________ The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...