AnimeSuki Forums

james0246 · 2010-01-09, 18:57

^You might want to try and divorce reality from this fictional story, it'll make the experience more enjoyable...

milan kyuubi · 2010-01-10, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cats

And what the hell is a "anti-villain" LOL

Basically the opposite of an anti-hero. While the anti-hero often fights on the protagonist's team, but with selfish motives, the anti-villain plays a villain's game, but for what's at least in their eyes a noble cause. They may be personally more noble or heroic than an anti-hero but the means to achieve their ends are often considered immoral, unjust, even evil. Sometimes they may simply be a villain with gentlemanly qualities or a code of honor or some sense of justice. Anti-villains will occasionally side with their rivals (usually the protagonist) if a greater threat than themselves comes or it is in both of their best interests. Often also considered "grey" characters due to their moral ambiguity. Examples of popular anti-villains include Magneto, Eric Finch, Benjamin Linus, the Jigsaw Killer, Francis Hummel, Kane from Command & Conquer and The Operative from the film Serenity.

AuroraFlash · 2010-01-10, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cats

And what the hell is a "anti-villain" LOL

If the Anti Hero is the Deconstruction of the Hero, then the ANTI-VILLAIN is the villain's send up.
At its most basic, the Anti Villain is a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and even virtues. While even a Card Carrying Villain needs at least some good qualities in order to be effective, believable and (ironically enough) threatening as an antagonist, the Anti Villain has far more than strictly necessary. They reach a kind of critical mass that makes them "gooder" than normal villains but not quite Heroes, blurring the line between hero and villain the same way an Anti Hero does.
It's also possible to have a normal villain and turn them into an Anti Villain over time by detailing their Start Of Darkness, giving them (for example) a Dead Little Sister, a Morality Pet, kind episodes, or otherwise retconning them into submission.
One good example would be Orochimaru who seemingly was clearly a villain but then (especially in the anime) was shown to have lost his parents at young age and showed sympathy for Tsunade who lost her beloved ones during war. It all started with finding a way to stop people from dying and he ended up as a lunatic who couldn't stop himself from forbidden experiments and sacrificing lives anymore.

Akachou · 2010-01-10, 14:00

I'd say Itachi is an Anti-Villain then, because he started off as a villain and then we discovered his heroic goals, personality traits and yes, even virtues. No one can turn back time. He has killed his whole clan. He might not have done it alone, but he has done it anyways. It might not have been his free will, but he agreed. He could have run away or died as well to retain his virtues, but obviously it was more important to him to keep the peace than to save his clan which in other words means he decided to rather kill the clan than see what happens if he doesn't and he refused to die along with the clan. He had not foreseen all possible futures when he decided what to do.

solidguy · 2010-01-11, 21:15

Is itachi a hero or a villian? Well i guess it all depends on whose view of which he is a hero or villian. He could still be considered a hero in konoha for having the vision to see the iminent threat of the uchiha and having the courage and selflesness( if thats a word) to destroy the uchiha clan. But this is only if his deeds were a known fact to the public so he still remains a villian.To the uchiha clan he is a villian for obvious reasons e.g betraying them. To sasuke he could be an anti-hero because once sasuke realized itachi was looking out for him he became what you all described above, a hero with good interests at heart with questionable ways of going about them. But perhaps the most important view is that of itachi himself. I think itachi wouldn't consider himself a villian but more like an anti hero (i voted for hero) simply because he is a person who had the forsight to see the big picture and the ability to actually do something about it. He knew what he was doing and to consequences that would happen so i guess he can be catagorized as one of those "for the greater good heroes". The only thing that makes his heroness questionable is why he did all those things to sasuke? Was it a mistake? A simple lapse of his judgement? These question right here will determine the course of this manga and i think they're close to being answered. Or kishi could just leave it as a plothole and continue working up itachi to be the godlike genius who can outsmart his ignorant little brother even in death.

antjluc · 2010-02-12, 03:29

he is on the thin line between anti hero and anti villian because he believed he killed for the greater good but he worked wit international criminals

Dragon of cyan cliff · 2010-02-16, 10:39

Well,I used to believe that Itachi is a hero firmly.But after skimming the reponses it seems I have to change my faith.As a comic character,Itachi is surprisingly similar to the ones in the real world.Usually many historical celebrities are not absolute good men or absolute bad men.They themselve are somehow a combination of goodness and badness,which is exactly the image of Itachi in my eyes.Betraying one's own clan is certainly a forgiveless sin,not to mention Itachi is a Ninja.But his determination of keeping peace can't be turned down anyway.That's a complex feeling but also considerable.

After all,I still choose to believe that Itachi is a hero.

solomonh · 2010-03-06, 13:04

I voted for hero

karaya · 2010-03-08, 09:14

I voted for other.

I mean he is no hero and no villain. Just a man doing his job. But of course we either have to define him one way or the other.

I didn't really need to define him more than a ninja who was raised to act in certain way and became what was expected of him. Nothing more and nothing less....

Casshern · 2010-03-08, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

^You might want to try and divorce reality from this fictional story, it'll make the experience more enjoyable...

Doesn't change the fact that he killed babies. Even for the Naruto-verse, I don't see how someone can be a hero after doing that.

karaya · 2010-03-08, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casshern

Doesn't change the fact that he killed babies. Even for the Naruto-verse, I don't see how someone can be a hero after doing that.

you male him sound like a villain

..but hey who blames you

.

But I get your statement.

I read some of your replies people and I must say I really liked some of the views. You can really see this one differently depending on your own view which was very interesting

Spectacular_Insanity · 2010-03-15, 05:23

Anti-villian. I think Itachi really wanted to do the right thing, but made bad choices when it came to the Uchiha uprising. That, and he should have never worked for Madara after being forced to leave the village.

Avira · 2010-03-15, 10:43

Itachi is neither. He just did what he thought was right, and sometimes the right thing isn't necessairily morally right.

I mean, killing your clan is as unloyal as you can get and, well, a massacre is without doubt one of the worst sins. But he did it in order to keep the peace, in other words unselfishly and without 'bad' intention.

He's the 'for the greater good' type of character.

Waking_Dreamer · 2010-03-15, 14:01

Hes certainly no hero!

He set Sauske on a path against Naruto. Sasuke was fine without always being consumed by revenge - TILL Itachi showed up again. He could have easily MS Sauske into thinking it was all Madara's fault, but nooo....

SuigetsuKun · 2010-03-18, 18:39

People say he is a hero
I guess they just know a zero
He killed his family and his friends
A hero? That doesn't make sense!
He killed his lover
without regret
maybe she was covered in fat
or didn't put out for him in bed.
He let Madara help him, too
A hero is not made of two.
Okay, he let his brother live
but he had nothing else to give
in fact he chose his hangman
successful - cause he died then.

Ashaman · 2010-03-19, 12:12

Gotta be Anti-villain.

He had heroic goals, but had no problem doing some very deplorable things

solidguy · 2010-03-20, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuigetsuKun

People say he is a hero
I guess they just know a zero
He killed his family and his friends
A hero? That doesn't make sense!
He killed his lover
without regret
maybe she was covered in fat
or didn't put out for him in bed.
He let Madara help him, too
A hero is not made of two.
Okay, he let his brother live
but he had nothing else to give
in fact he chose his hangman
successful - cause he died then.

itachi was not a hero
yet far more than a zero
he was just a bad ass dude like robert de niro
sacrificed his clan from 3rd cousin to mother
but didn't have the heart to take the life of his brother
so should it really be itachi to shoulder the blame?
for sasuke's decend into the uchiha's black flames
no, and if itachi still smells fishy
then it must just be crap writting from good old kishi

Arkham · 2010-03-20, 16:22

*waits for @SuigetsuKun's reply XD

SuigetsuKun · 2010-03-20, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkham

*waits for @SuigetsuKun's reply XD

Geez, why do I get dragged in something like that? I'm just too tired, it's nearly 5 AM over here and I doubt anyone wants to read this.

Itachi carried out his duty as a ninja, a tool of Konoha, a weapon. It was not his decision to slaughter his clan, it was a mission. His choice was to die along with his clan or to save his own life and the life of his brother. His father plotted the coup d'etat, thus he had to die no matter what and his mother was closest to his father, so she had to die to make sure people wouldn't follow her instead, even if she had nothing to do with it, this was about the risk. Both his parents would have died anyways and the other people, except his lover, did not mean much to him. His lover of course was his weakness. He had to kill her because others would have killed her or taken her hostage to get hold of Uchiha Itachi.
If he would have let her live, it would have meant certain death and as he slaughtered her, she must have been an Uchiha old enough to know about everything the clan had planned - she had to die.
The only one he could spare was his little brother because he was young and innocent and didn't know anything. He had to threaten people in order to ensure Sasuke's survival. He could not take Sasuke with him, it would have meant certain death as well.

Now here comes my reply...

Quote:

Originally Posted by solidguy

itachi was not a hero
yet far more than a zero
he was just a bad ass dude like robert de niro
sacrificed his clan from 3rd cousin to mother
but didn't have the heart to take the life of his brother
so should it really be itachi to shoulder the blame?
for sasuke's decend into the uchiha's black flames
no, and if itachi still smells fishy
then it must just be crap writting from good old kishi

Spoiler for explicit language, sorry.:

solidguy · 2010-04-09, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuigetsuKun

Now here comes my reply...

Spoiler for explicit language, sorry.:

OMFG!!!

This one is actually relevant to the topic of naruto (vaguely) so um yeah

Spoiler for reply-no beef :D:

View Poll Results: Itachi - Hero or Villain? Or something else?
Hero	80	36.53%
Anti-Hero	46	21.00%
Other	24	10.96%
Villain	19	8.68%
Anti-Villain	50	22.83%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

2010-01-10, 14:00	Link #104
Akachou Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	I'd say Itachi is an Anti-Villain then, because he started off as a villain and then we discovered his heroic goals, personality traits and yes, even virtues. No one can turn back time. He has killed his whole clan. He might not have done it alone, but he has done it anyways. It might not have been his free will, but he agreed. He could have run away or died as well to retain his virtues, but obviously it was more important to him to keep the peace than to save his clan which in other words means he decided to rather kill the clan than see what happens if he doesn't and he refused to die along with the clan. He had not foreseen all possible futures when he decided what to do. __________________ The world is yours.

2010-03-15, 05:23	Link #112
Spectacular_Insanity Ha ha ha ha ha... Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Right behind you. Age: 35	Anti-villian. I think Itachi really wanted to do the right thing, but made bad choices when it came to the Uchiha uprising. That, and he should have never worked for Madara after being forced to leave the village. __________________

2010-03-15, 10:43	Link #113
Avira fanart-fan :D Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany	Itachi is neither. He just did what he thought was right, and sometimes the right thing isn't necessairily morally right. I mean, killing your clan is as unloyal as you can get and, well, a massacre is without doubt one of the worst sins. But he did it in order to keep the peace, in other words unselfishly and without 'bad' intention. He's the 'for the greater good' type of character. __________________

2010-03-18, 18:39	Link #115
SuigetsuKun Circus Clown Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: on the streets	People say he is a hero I guess they just know a zero He killed his family and his friends A hero? That doesn't make sense! He killed his lover without regret maybe she was covered in fat or didn't put out for him in bed. He let Madara help him, too A hero is not made of two. Okay, he let his brother live but he had nothing else to give in fact he chose his hangman successful - cause he died then. __________________ And instead of trying to impose on your mind, you adjust yourself to your opponent like water pressing on an earthen wall. It flows through the slightest crack. Running water never grows stale. So you just have to 'keep on flowing'. Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

2010-01-09, 18:57	Link #101
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	^You might want to try and divorce reality from this fictional story, it'll make the experience more enjoyable...

2010-01-11, 21:15	Link #105
solidguy I'm not a tumor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In the dreams of beautiful women Age: 31	Is itachi a hero or a villian? Well i guess it all depends on whose view of which he is a hero or villian. He could still be considered a hero in konoha for having the vision to see the iminent threat of the uchiha and having the courage and selflesness( if thats a word) to destroy the uchiha clan. But this is only if his deeds were a known fact to the public so he still remains a villian.To the uchiha clan he is a villian for obvious reasons e.g betraying them. To sasuke he could be an anti-hero because once sasuke realized itachi was looking out for him he became what you all described above, a hero with good interests at heart with questionable ways of going about them. But perhaps the most important view is that of itachi himself. I think itachi wouldn't consider himself a villian but more like an anti hero (i voted for hero) simply because he is a person who had the forsight to see the big picture and the ability to actually do something about it. He knew what he was doing and to consequences that would happen so i guess he can be catagorized as one of those "for the greater good heroes". The only thing that makes his heroness questionable is why he did all those things to sasuke? Was it a mistake? A simple lapse of his judgement? These question right here will determine the course of this manga and i think they're close to being answered. Or kishi could just leave it as a plothole and continue working up itachi to be the godlike genius who can outsmart his ignorant little brother even in death.

2010-02-12, 03:29	Link #106
antjluc Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Jersey	he is on the thin line between anti hero and anti villian because he believed he killed for the greater good but he worked wit international criminals

2010-02-16, 10:39	Link #107
Dragon of cyan cliff Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Guiyang City,Guizhou Province,China Age: 30	Well,I used to believe that Itachi is a hero firmly.But after skimming the reponses it seems I have to change my faith.As a comic character,Itachi is surprisingly similar to the ones in the real world.Usually many historical celebrities are not absolute good men or absolute bad men.They themselve are somehow a combination of goodness and badness,which is exactly the image of Itachi in my eyes.Betraying one's own clan is certainly a forgiveless sin,not to mention Itachi is a Ninja.But his determination of keeping peace can't be turned down anyway.That's a complex feeling but also considerable. After all,I still choose to believe that Itachi is a hero.

2010-03-06, 13:04	Link #108
solomonh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008	I voted for hero

2010-03-08, 09:14	Link #109
karaya Behind lies is truth Join Date: Mar 2010	I voted for other. I mean he is no hero and no villain. Just a man doing his job. But of course we either have to define him one way or the other. I didn't really need to define him more than a ninja who was raised to act in certain way and became what was expected of him. Nothing more and nothing less....

2010-03-15, 14:01	Link #114
Waking_Dreamer Dreamer King Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: lost - with no intention to be found... Age: 38	Hes certainly no hero! He set Sauske on a path against Naruto. Sasuke was fine without always being consumed by revenge - TILL Itachi showed up again. He could have easily MS Sauske into thinking it was all Madara's fault, but nooo....

2010-03-19, 12:12	Link #116
Ashaman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Age: 34	Gotta be Anti-villain. He had heroic goals, but had no problem doing some very deplorable things

2010-03-20, 16:22	Link #118
Arkham Stoned Assasin Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Pillars of Nosgoth Age: 37	*waits for @SuigetsuKun's reply XD