Higurashi Gou - Anime Episode Discussion Thread (OG/Kai spoilers OK)

[maximilianjenus]

Yeah, My money was on adding tatarigoroshi elements here, But we are two episodes inside and they have not been hinted while tsumuhoroboshi was hinted right in the first episode of the precious arc.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

What I'm currently trying to find out is when we've seen Shion being Shion and when Mion.

The initial reaction points towards Shion, as I doubt it would be the first time they've actually met.
...

Generally, they seem to have reversed their rolls on at least one occasion, compared to the original. Otherwise, showing us the entire thing again would be pointless.

I'm not sure how you could make such kind of conclusion when having a complete role reversal right from the beginning to the end doesn't make any sense in term of established plot point. This is particularly true with your assumption that it is actually Shion posing as Mion at school. Not only she doesn't really have any reason to do so (should se remembers her promise to Satoshi, she would actually tag along Satoko as Shion anyway), but it would require some weird mental gymnastics to justify that situation.
The rules may have changed even so slightly, but Higurashi has always followed plot points because of how fragments work, otherwise, we might as well have fragments where every character is in Ibaraki instead.

The whole point of having a similar flow of events is for narrative consistency, since we are dealing with loops with very specific turn of events that cannot be avoided based on certain decisions. It is the very same reason why we always had the same cast with very little alteration, and it is meant to have enough similarities for the newcomers so they don't have to go back to the OG series. That being said, while I doubt Mion could go as far as L5, it is very likely she will turn jealous of Shion, which might actually trigger the latter at some point considering Shion has more "proper reasons" to be jealous.
Watadamashi strayed much farther from Watanagashi compared to Onikakushi with Onidamashi. Aside of the doll, Keiichi, Mion and Shion interactions are quite different despite the similar turn of events.

On a side note, I'm starting to believe the "eyelashes/eye shape" clue is actually correct, since it matches the other clues such as specific behaviours that are exclusive to a specific twin. Mion has not shown any OOC reaction even once and always had sharp angled eyes, so it is fair to assume it is always the tatoo twin who has a thing for Keiichi.
Meanwhile, Shion is more troublesome to pinpoint, but based on the eye clues (more soft and rounded ones), the actual Shion (the twin who loves Satoshi) only shows up starting from the Angel Mort buffet, subsequently confirming it was also her for the phone call.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I'm not sure how you could make such kind of conclusion when having a complete role reversal right from the beginning to the end doesn't make any sense in term of established plot point. This is particularly true with your assumption that it is actually Shion posing as Mion at school. Not only she doesn't really have any reason to do so (should se remembers her promise to Satoshi, she would actually tag along Satoko as Shion anyway), but it would require some weird mental gymnastics to justify that situation.
The rules may have changed even so slightly, but Higurashi has always followed plot points because of how fragments work, otherwise, we might as well have fragments where every character is in Ibaraki instead.

The whole point of having a similar flow of events is for narrative consistency, since we are dealing with loops with very specific turn of events that cannot be avoided based on certain decisions. It is the very same reason why we always had the same cast with very little alteration, and it is meant to have enough similarities for the newcomers so they don't have to go back to the OG series. That being said, while I doubt Mion could go as far as L5, it is very likely she will turn jealous of Shion, which might actually trigger the latter at some point considering Shion has more "proper reasons" to be jealous.
Watadamashi strayed much farther from Watanagashi compared to Onikakushi with Onidamashi. Aside of the doll, Keiichi, Mion and Shion interactions are quite different despite the similar turn of events.


On a side note, I'm starting to believe the "eyelashes" clue is actually correct, since it matches the other clues such as specific behaviours that are exclusive to a specific twin. "Mion" has not shown any OOC reaction even once and always had sharp angled eyelashes, so it is fair to assume it is always the tatoo twin who has a thing for Keiichi.
Meanwhile, "Shion" is more troublesome to pinpoint, but based on the eyelashes clues (more soft and rounded ones), the actual Shion (the twin who loves Satoshi) only shows up starting from the Angel Mort buffet, subsequently confirming it was also her for the phone call.

I actually went back, and while Shion seems to have slightly less sharp eyelashes it seems to be more of an angle thing.

That being said I'm admittedly not sure which part of them is supposed to be sharper to begin with.

in the three or so scenes we certainly know who is who, their eye lashes don't look particularly different to me.

For example, we know it was Tattoo-Mion who brought Keiichi, the food boxes, as "Mion" told her sister off when she claimed it was her who did it.

I also don't really think it's that strange for "Shion" to react when addressed as Mion and vise versa. Unless I remember things totally wrong, Shion is actually the real Mion. (i.E. the one who should) have gotten the tattoo, and they only became the other one for good after that.
So, in the end we have Mion who has been addressed as Shion for half her life, while we also have Shion who has been addressed as Mion for half her life. So it's not really that alien for one of them to react to the other's name.

It's also not that Shion isn't allowed to fall in love again, and it's been hinted that the rules are different for this shard to a certain extent.

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

episode 6:
funny, when Shion was a little upset when K1 wanted to watch Rika dance instead of coming with her.

That's my point, we don't know how often they have switched places before we introduced to any of the characters at all.
The only thing we got in that regard is Mion "thinking" that Rena hasn't met Shion before, and we do know that Ryukishi does like playing with words...

[Klashikari]

Eyes comparison: Usual Mion, Mion as Shion (First time Keiichi meets "Shion"), Shion in Angel Mort and at the watanagashi festival. Both in the same shot for comparison. Mion's eyes are made of 3 lines forming 2 angles, whereas Shion's eyes are closer to only 2 lines with a smoother angle. As you can see, Mion's eyes have a sharper angle, whereas Shion's are rounder. While I'm not sure if it is inconsistency or not, Shion's lashes around her eyes are slightly more numerous than Mion's.
Marina2 also pointed it out with the actual character design sheets. It is worth noting different expressions alone aren't enough to provoke such consistent difference between them in the anime proper.

Shion was indeed supposed to be "Mion" and get the tattoo that proves she is the heir of the Sonozaki. However, that permanent twin swap happened many years ago. Ever since then, both girls always responded to their respective current names until shit hit the fan in Watanagashi/Meakashi were Shion claims her name back when she reaches L4-L5. So it is very unlikely for the real Shion to respond to the name "Mion" like that as if it was natural. It is worth noting that scene was exactly the same in the VN, where Mion disguised as Shion inadvertently reacted to Keiichi when the latter says "Mion".

Also, I never argued Shion cannot fall in love again. If anything, it was implied in Meakashi she was attracted by Keiichi and felt incredibly guilty about that. My problem is that there is no reason for her to blush like Mion so spontaneously. She started having some romantic feelings when Keiichi tried to protect her from the wota creeps, but prior that point it is very unlikely. That's why both lunch box scenes wouldn't make sense if it is really Shion for any of them.
The only case that might make sense is if Shion was Mion during the board game tournament and received the doll on Mion's behalf, but aside of that, it is quite unlikely for Shion to be at Keiichi's side prior the buffet incident.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Eyes comparison: Usual Mion, Mion as Shion (First time Keiichi meets "Shion"), Shion in Angel Mort and at the watanagashi festival. Both in the same shot for comparison. Mion's eyes are made of 3 lines forming 2 angles, whereas Shion's eyes are closer to only 2 lines with a smoother angle. As you can see, Mion's eyes have a sharper angle, whereas Shion's are rounder. While I'm not sure if it is inconsistency or not, Shion's lashes around her eyes are slightly more numerous than Mion's.
Marina2 also pointed it out with the actual character design sheets. It is worth noting different expressions alone aren't enough to provoke such consistent difference between them in the anime proper.

Shion was indeed supposed to be "Mion" and get the tattoo that proves she is the heir of the Sonozaki. However, that permanent twin swap happened many years ago. Ever since then, both girls always responded to their respective current names until shit hit the fan in Watanagashi/Meakashi were Shion claims her name back when she reaches L4-L5. So it is very unlikely for the real Shion to respond to the name "Mion" like that as if it was natural. It is worth noting that scene was exactly the same in the VN, where Mion disguised as Shion inadvertently reacted to Keiichi when the latter says "Mion".

Also, I never argued Shion cannot fall in love again. If anything, it was implied in Meakashi she was attracted by Keiichi and felt incredibly guilty about that. My problem is that there is no reason for her to blush like Mion so spontaneously. She started having some romantic feelings when Keiichi tried to protect her from the wota creeps, but prior that point it is very unlikely. That's why both lunch box scenes wouldn't make sense if it is really Shion for any of them.
The only case that might make sense is if Shion was Mion during the board game tournament and received the doll on Mion's behalf, but aside of that, it is quite unlikely for Shion to be at Keiichi's side prior the buffet incident.

I never meant to say the one with the Bento was Shion-Shion. I added the second part due to their identities having been reversed even before either of them gets introduced. Mion also told us it was her.

@Eyelashes: So you did mean their general form after all. So I was looking at the right thing first and the wrong one second after all...
I already thought you only meant the spikes, as Shion had spikier lashes in a few scenes too.

That being said, if this detail is actually intended, I wonder whether everyone on the team was aware of it, and also whether this got added in later.

When Mion brings Keiichi the bento, Mion's eyes are more like Shion's. Then Keiichi calls her Shion, causing her to blink, and Mion's eyes look "normal/sharper" again.

[Jan-Poo]

Assuming the eyelashes theory is right, there are two questions that pop in my mind:

1) It's clear that the doll is an important plot point again, especially since this time Shion asked K1 to buy one. However since it was Mion who received the doll in the beginning, shouldn't this lead to the path where Shion doesn't develop L5?

2) What kind of significance does it have for Mion to be the one who saved K1 from the punks? Why was she there replacing Shion again?

[MeoTwister5]

Logically speaking even if there could exist an innumerable amount of shards, there would exist a certain amount of logical rules and consistencies that must universally be true and thus the same in all of them, at least from a writing POV because otherwise this story would no longer make sense.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Assuming the eyelashes theory is right, there are two questions that pop in my mind:

1) It's clear that the doll is an important plot point again, especially since this time Shion asked K1 to buy one. However since it was Mion who received the doll in the beginning, shouldn't this lead to the path where Shion doesn't develop L5?

2) What kind of significance does it have for Mion to be the one who saved K1 from the punks? Why was she there replacing Shion again?

1) Mion receiving the doll at the beginning "should" lead to Minagoroshi but that's if no other potential trigger would affect Shion. Based on that premise, I believe the whole deal about the doll is a red herring for veterans since there is no way a Minagoroshi/Matsuribayashi scenario would pop that early in Gou. If anything, it just shows that other triggers may still affect Shion. After all, Shion's L5 meltdown was basically a chain reaction that merely started with her discussion with Mion after the doll incident. So any other event that could provoke Shion's murderous memory lane could work too. That or they are really trying to create a very special scenario where it is Mion who goes insane.
From my perspective, All 3 characters interactions are fairly different compared to Watanagashi/Meakashi because Mion never had any reason to be really that jealous past Shion's teasing moves, but in this fragment, Mion's reactions are way more emotional when it comes to Keiichi. On the flipside, Keiichi didn't pat Shion's head even once, which means Shion has even less reason to "remember" about Satoshi or do any weird comparison between both guys.
Because of this, I think it is fair to assume Watadamashi will be about an actual love triangle between Keiichi and the twins. Which means any of the twins or even both could go L5. While I don't really like the idea of a new Fragment conveniently having Mion falling to L5 sanity spiral, it is a possibility anyway, considering Onidamashi.

2) From what I can remember, Mion was also the one who saved Keiichi from the punks in the VN. It was actually Deen cutting corners and used Shion there so they could transition immediately to her and Keiichi bumpin on Mion at the Da vinci toy store. Aside of that, that scene serves as a convenient way for Keiichi to learn about Hinamizawa's unity while giving the impression to the reader that the villagers are really bad news if they are threatened. The fact it is Mion only makes sense in Meakashi since you only learn there that Shion is suspecting the villagers, particularly the Sonozaki, for demoning away Satoshi. So her description of the villagers fighting against the dam project doesn't make sense unless the twin was actually Mion.

As for the significance of that swap, it is heavily implied Mion was simply working there to handle Shion's shift, but I don't remember if Meakashi VN actually explained why Shion couldn't take care of that shift (unless Mion did that for extra cash?). But what's certain is that Mion never planned to meet Keiichi as Shion, since she never expected him to go to Angel Mort at all and it was his dad who was quite persistent about dining there.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As for the significance of that swap, it is heavily implied Mion was simply working there to handle Shion's shift, but I don't remember if Meakashi VN actually explained why Shion couldn't take care of that shift (unless Mion did that for extra cash?). But what's certain is that Mion never planned to meet Keiichi as Shion, since she never expected him to go to Angel Mort at all and it was his dad who was quite persistent about dining there.

Shion working at Angel Mort has always been a bit strange, even in the original, isn't she supposed to be locked in that boarding school Umineko's Ange went to too?

[Klashikari]

She escaped from St Lucia in 1982, few days/weeks before meeting Satoshi. During that period, she was living in Okinomiya thanks to Sakai and one of her uncles' help. It is actually that guy who owns the Angel Mort and offered Shion a part time job there.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Logically speaking even if there could exist an innumerable amount of shards, there would exist a certain amount of logical rules and consistencies that must universally be true and thus the same in all of them, at least from a writing POV because otherwise this story would no longer make sense.

One of the rules Rika considered absolute, which is Tomitake and "Takano" being found dead, was broken in the first arc. Of course, it's possible it was Rika's doing, but if it was really that easy for her to shut down Takano's operation, it would make the first series meaningless. It's highly unlikely she's behind this. I think there's a new more powerful player in town.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kanon

One of the rules Rika considered absolute, which is Tomitake and "Takano" being found dead, was broken in the first arc. Of course, it's possible it was Rika's doing, but if it was really that easy for her to shut down Takano's operation, it would make the first series meaningless. It's highly unlikely she's behind this. I think there's a new more powerful player in town.

Yeah, and I still hope it's Beatrice's doing as a revenge for messing with her gameboard.
Although, that hope will likely not come true... That being said... Bernkastel and Lambda got their important roles in Umineko too, so there shouldn't be a reason Beato can't get one on a gameboard that got created several years later.

[Katsu Koneko]

Episode screenshots for EP7 are up!
https://higurashianime.com/story/002_007.html

Wondering what that Satoko scene is... don't remember it.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Katsu Koneko

Episode screenshots for EP7 are up!
https://higurashianime.com/story/002_007.html

Wondering what that Satoko scene is... don't remember it.

The first thing I did after you said that was checking whether the scene involved Rika and a chair.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kanon

One of the rules Rika considered absolute, which is Tomitake and "Takano" being found dead, was broken in the first arc. Of course, it's possible it was Rika's doing, but if it was really that easy for her to shut down Takano's operation, it would make the first series meaningless. It's highly unlikely she's behind this. I think there's a new more powerful player in town.

We don't know why it changed so we can't exactly conclude it was "that easy". Lest you forgot, Rika realized about Takano's true agenda only in Minagoroshi, so it isn't like she had the luxury of trying to warn Tomitake and Irie about Takano's plan, since she immediately got Matsuribayashi right after that. Before that, she always assumed Takano was an actual victim since she never knew about the time of death decrepancy of the cremated corpse, nor the fact the police only concluded it was Takano's because of forged dental data.

If anything, Gou might expand why "simply exposing Takano's plan early on" might not be the best solution. But really, it isn't about the rules Rika has arbitrarily created based on her observations. It is more like what we know based on the narrative structure. After all, there are "meta" information Rika never knew such as no GHD if she dies for more than 48h before being discovered (nullifying the queen carrier theory, which subsequently prevents Takano to trigger Manual 34).

[Marina2]

Ep.7

Rika,I am understand how you feel but you don't really have to be that hard on K1. You should have done something more too, in fact.

Spoiler for Ep.7:

Okay.....so Tomitake and Takano tried to run away from something or someone and the reason why Tomitake body wasn't found in previous arc was because he left the village instead of died??? However, Rika doesn't seem to aware about this fact and thought Takano just did her usual fake death and went into hiding and waiting for the time to execute her plan. (maybe?)

Oh....Rika doesn't get beaten by Shion this time right?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/UtnXQp4zgvQ

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Yup, unlike in the OG anime, Rika already gave up this world the moment she heard Kei's "cats story". I assume now she just want to get over it. I wonder how she will die this time. Another suicide?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Marina2

Ep.7

Rika,I am understand how you feel but you don't really have to be that hard on K1. You should have done something more too, in fact.

Spoiler for Ep.7:

Okay.....so Tomitake and Takano tried to run away from something or someone and the reason why Tomitake body wasn't found in previous arc was because he left the village instead of died??? However, Rika doesn't seem to aware about this fact and thought Takano just did her usual fake death and went into hiding and waiting for the time to execute her plan. (maybe?)

Oh....Rika doesn't get beaten by Shion this time right?

I don't think Rika could have done much more though. It's not like she can differ Shion and Mion any better than anyone else. Asking whether he had seen her dance is actually a pretty good way for her to assess the situation and know whether Keiichi and Shion have met.

---
I'm not entirely sure Shion is the antagonist here. Her suddenly hanging up there made only half-sense, especially going by how the rest of the conversation went.

One possible solution would be that Shion got captured by Mion while she was on the phone with Keiichi.

What I think happened though, is that Mion obviously doesn't want to hurt Keiichi, and pretended to be Shion on the phone to confirm her suspicion that they went into the storehouse together.

Shion already knew what went down, so she didn't really need to confirm any of that. So that was probably Mion, who hung up the moment she had heard enough.
Whether the caller wore Shion's clothes is totally meaningless, as this isn't an information we couldn't get out of Keiichi's perspective.

They also made a great deal out of not showing us the caller's face, so it was probably actually Mion.

As for Rika, I can understand that she's had enough, but if that's how she talks to her friends, I really don't want to see how she treats her enemies. Then again, why am I even surprised after the stunt she pulled with the chair?

That being said, those red-eyes are actually rather distinctive for Bernkastel, rather than Rika. The laugh also sounded more Bernkastel-ish.
Could it be that Gou is actually "How Rika became Bernkastel?"

Nevertheless, the actually creepy one in this one is Mion, not Shion. She always had her moments when it was about family stuff, but in this iteration Mion really hits the bird...

[Kanon]

Rika roasting Keiichi as hard as she could really surprised me, and makes me think she's already made a lot of failed attempts between the previous arc and this one. The lack of Hanyu to morally support her is probably driving her nuts faster. She may think it's hopeless without her.

[MeoTwister5]

One thing that struck me here was during Rika's tirade of spilling the beans to Keiichi because she doesn't seem to give a shit about this shard anymore, she mentioned about whether Shion was alive or dead as of that moment. In Meakashi-hen it was already Shion who was impersonating Mion after the festival, because Mion was already imprisoned at this point. Mion is also the only one who could be dead as of that moment in time.

Doesn't that mean that Rika doesn't actually know the real identities of the twins post-festival in Meakashi-hen? AFAIK and remember Shion never revealed the truth of her impersonating Mion to Rika or any of the club. This kinda implies that Rika doesn't know absolutely everything about previous shards, and in this shard she presumes is like Meakashi-hen. I'm also curious as to why she hasn't seemed to try to check whether Satoshi is alive or dead, because his status is tied to Satoko and Shion's sanity.

Unless I'm remembering something wrong...

In any case I'm expecting this arc to flip the script like the previous one. I'm expecting Mion to be the crazy one here, but there really should be a proper and believable explanation as to why.