Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Comartemis]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Work material or doomed to the trash can?

Doomed! Dooooomed! Seriously Rick, what the heck are you doing here? Jail looks like something pulled straight out of Starcraft, only a lot less fancy! And everyone knows that mad scientists make poor frontline figh--

*Comar gets thumped on the head and carted off for experiments by Kefka*

Seriously though, please tell me this isn't what you're planning on doing with Jail for that Techno Union thing you're doing? Because in all seriousness Jail is not the type to get into big old fistfights with the main characters (neither is Quattro for that matter, and I know you had her fighting Nanoha in a head-to-head confrontation earlier on, which is a biiiiiiiig no no for illusion specialists and support fighters), whether he's got armor or not. Even if you made this like MJOLNIR armor and made it so the armor seriously beefs up his strength and speed and whatnot, Jail still isn't the type to duke things out by himself; that's why he spent so much money building his gadget army and his cyborgs, so they could do the dirty work for him.

[Liingo]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'll say it again: they're the same spell-type. They're the 'flash-bang' spells.

And this shows that re-coloring and re-naming spells is no problem at all.

- Should be studying, but this caught my eye. Apologies for butting in.

Keroko, I'm pretty sure that ATC isn't arguing agaisnt recolouring/renaming spells. It's more of an argument agaisnt creating needless and dangerous spells when there is already a proven canon version(sonic move) to recolour and rename.

I don't think any of us are against a renamed sonic move, just that in it's present version, Comar's OC movement spell is going to a bigger danger to the user than the attacks that his OC is going to be evading.

-Back to study I go

[Comartemis]

And Kero is arguing that the movement spell isn't a danger to the mage because of body reinforcement support magics that could be built into the spell to help manage the strain.

In any case, the intent was to create something like the instant movement technique in Negima, then give a Gundamish feel to it through the spell's visual component, i.e. the energy wash-style mana blast.

The intent with the spell's mechanics is to create a Flash Move that is easier to use and puts less strain on the body but has more limitations than Flash Move or Sonic Move do. For instance, the user can only move in straight lines and it's kinda hard to stop once you start moving.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Doomed! Dooooomed! Seriously Rick, what the heck are you doing here? Jail looks like something pulled straight out of Starcraft, only a lot less fancy! And everyone knows that mad scientists make poor frontline figh--

*Comar gets thumped on the head and carted off for experiments by Kefka*

Seriously though, please tell me this isn't what you're planning on doing with Jail for that Techno Union thing you're doing? Because in all seriousness Jail is not the type to get into big old fistfights with the main characters (neither is Quattro for that matter, and I know you had her fighting Nanoha in a head-to-head confrontation earlier on, which is a biiiiiiiig no no for illusion specialists and support fighters), whether he's got armor or not. Even if you made this like MJOLNIR armor and made it so the armor seriously beefs up his strength and speed and whatnot, Jail still isn't the type to duke things out by himself; that's why he spent so much money building his gadget army and his cyborgs, so they could do the dirty work for him.

If that's wthat you think, I sugest you to keep away for the rest of my creations XD

If you think that this "Battle armor Jail" is wierd and totally a crazy idea, it means that you don't know some of my OC's like Gary Love, Happy Nightmare or Lolicon, the Demon Overlord

Belive me, I'm surrounded by a wierd aura that will make even Kha to trumble

Spoiler for Example of my crazy OCs:

Zaphira: Princess Vita, were is she?

Happy Nightmare: Princess? Didn't I killed the last idiot who called me that way? You shoul know! I'm the only joker around here!!!

And for your question, no, this Jail is not planed for my Techno - Union comic, in fact, Jail alredy made his part in Rise Techno - Union, (I turned him into a good guy)

This Jail is planed top appear on my Fic, Vita, Shadows of the Past

[Wild Goose]

If it's kinda hard to stop once you start moving, you better be damn well careful about where you use it. Don't wanna slam into a wall and concuss yourself, do you?

[Comartemis]

If you think that this "Battle armor Jail" is wierd and totally a crazy idea, it means that you don't know some of my OC's like Gary Love, Happy Nightmare or Lolicon, the Demon Overlord

It's not weird, it's stupid. Jail is a scientist, not a freaking brawler, and I'd be truly amazed if canon Jail had any kind of combat training, much less training in powered armor which is a whole new ballgame. A fancy suit of armor isn't going to turn him into some kind of super warrior; even the Master Chief and Samus Aran needed extensive combat training to be any good on the battlefield.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

If it's kinda hard to stop once you start moving, you better be damn well careful about where you use it. Don't wanna slam into a wall and concuss yourself, do you?

That's what barrier jackets are for, Goose.

Alex: Hey, I ain't gonna be slamming into walls all the time just 'cause you think it's funny!

You hush.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

It's not weird, it's stupid. Jail is a scientist, not a freaking brawler, and I'd be truly amazed if canon Jail had any kind of combat training, much less training in powered armor which is a whole new ballgame. A fancy suit of armor isn't going to turn him into some kind of super warrior; even the Master Chief and Samus Aran needed extensive combat training to be any good on the battlefield.

You are not being very precicesly with your coments, you don't even know how I'm gonna work this (Yes, just to make you anger, I'm gonna work it) and you alredy say that it's stupid

We all know that Jail is stupid, that is not any new, but why you think a mad cientist can't wear a battle armor and fight? In fact, there are 2 very well known mad cientists who had used battle armors to fight, let me refresh your mind

Lex Luthor and Dr. Doom



If they can, why Jail not?

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

It's not weird, it's stupid. Jail is a scientist, not a freaking brawler, and I'd be truly amazed if canon Jail had any kind of combat training, much less training in powered armor which is a whole new ballgame. A fancy suit of armor isn't going to turn him into some kind of super warrior; even the Master Chief and Samus Aran needed extensive combat training to be any good on the battlefield.

A sidestory to TF6 involves Franz spending some time with the Best Force, testing a powered armor design that's modified from the Erusian Bardiche powered armor model, because Franz has had some time with the Bardiche. It doesn't really go well because the last time he wore a Bardiche SAA model was 18 years ago and he pretty much forgot most of what he knew about powered armors.

That's what barrier jackets are for, Goose.

Alex: Hey, I ain't gonna be slamming into walls all the time just 'cause you think it's funny!

You hush.

Depending on how you setup the barrier jacket you can have him pinballing or getting stuck and needing Iris to pull him out and perform intimate healing, or kissing them hurts to make them better, or being tsundere to him.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Liingo

- Should be studying, but this caught my eye. Apologies for butting in.

Keroko, I'm pretty sure that ATC isn't arguing agaisnt recolouring/renaming spells. It's more of an argument agaisnt creating needless and dangerous spells when there is already a proven canon version(sonic move) to recolour and rename.

I don't think any of us are against a renamed sonic move, just that in it's present version, Comar's OC movement spell is going to a bigger danger to the user than the attacks that his OC is going to be evading.

-Back to study I go

Oh, well, his comments on how re-coloring Sonic Move is 'bad enough' made me think so...

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

You are not being very precicesly with your coments, you don't even know how I'm gonna work this (Yes, just to make you anger, I'm gonna work it) and you alredy say that it's stupid

We all know that Jail is stupid, that is not any new, but why you think a mad cientist can't wear a battle armor and fight? In fact, there are 2 very well known mad cientists who had used battle armors to fight, let me refresh your mind

Jail is hardly stupid. You may not like Jail as a villain, but Jail is a genius. Stupid people don't go around creating advances cloning techniques and cyborgs, not to mention fool an entire goverment's ruling party and revive an ancient relic.

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Lex Luthor and Dr. Doom

Spoiler:

If they can, why Jail not?

Because those villain's chose to specialize in close combat, Jail didn't. What you're doing is similar to taking Subaru, and turning her into a full-fledged ranged mage. It just goes against their character. Even with his Cyborg arm, the first thing Jail did was try to keep Fate at bay, not close in on her.

Jail is a manipulator, he prefers to twist emotions and send his minions to do the fighting. He'll appear on the battlefield if it suits his purposes, but he is by no means a front-line fighter.

[Comartemis]

(Yes, just to make you anger, I'm gonna work it)

On the contrary Rick, if you pull this off I'd be the first one to offer you my most heartfelt congratulations. But if you fail I'll be the one who's laughing the hardest, because I'm also the one who said "I told you so".

If they can, why Jail not?

These two caught me by surprise, I'll admit, but I'll give you one very good reason why Jail can't pull this off.

While I'm completely unfamiliar with the Superman comics, apparently it is an accepted practice in DC canon for Lex Luthor to suit up and go out to kick some Krytonian ass every now and then. But notice that this is based on the canon of the comic books. A fanon work that has Lex getting a suit of armor and going out to do some fighting isn't going to raise any eyebrows because that's what he's known to do.

Canon Jail, on the other hand, does not have a record of suiting up and going out to kick magical girl ass; instead he sits around in his lab, plotting his nefarious schemes and getting other people to do his dirty work for him. At first this is just the Gadgets, then the Numbers join the mix and finally there's Zest, Agito and Lutecia, but at no time does Jail ever give even the slightest hint that he would like to show his face on the battlefield and do a little asskicking himself.

Stated simply, direct confrontations are not in Jail's nature. He'll operate through his minions but he'll never fight himself unless it's absolutely necessary to his own survival, and even then he won't be very good at it. Using Jail (or Quattro) as a frontline fighter is as much a perversion of their characters as using Caro as a fistfighter would be.

Now if Armored Jail is a last resort thing that shows up right at the very end when Jail has exhausted all his other options, that's another story. But it would still be more appropriate for him to pull out some kind of Lost Logia he'd kept hidden (perhaps a whole Jewel Seed) and go One Winged Angel on his opponent instead of jumping into a suit of armor.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Jail is hardly stupid. You may not like Jail as a villain, but Jail is a genius. Stupid people don't go around creating advances cloning techniques and cyborgs, not to mention fool an entire goverment's ruling party and revive an ancient relic.

Because those villain's chose to specialize in close combat, Jail didn't. What you're doing is similar to taking Subaru, and turning her into a full-fledged ranged mage. It just goes against their character. Even with his Cyborg arm, the first thing Jail did was try to keep Fate at bay, not close in on her.

Jail is a manipulator, he prefers to twist emotions and send his minions to do the fighting. He'll appear on the battlefield if it suits his purposes, but he is by no means a front-line fighter.

But if we mix that, ehem... "Twisted mind" and phsycologyc tricks, with a bit of Hard, close combat to punish the enemies who had falled in the imnd tricks of this guy,m Wouldn't the thing sound more interesting?

Originally Posted by Comartemis

On the contrary Rick, if you pull this off I'd be the first one to offer you my most heartfelt congratulations. But if you fail I'll be the one who's laughing the hardest, because I'm also the one who said "I told you so"

You should Know, when Evil Rick creates a villan, he CREATES A VILLAN, go the the Nanoha fanfic thread and ask about "Evil Rick's Ella, Holly Techno - Union Emperor, Parca or ROBO_GATSURALLY" And I will make something wit this "Battle Armor Jail"

These two caught me by surprise, I'll admit, but I'll give you one very good reason why Jail can't pull this off.

While I'm completely unfamiliar with the Superman comics, apparently it is an accepted practice in DC canon for Lex Luthor to suit up and go out to kick some Krytonian ass every now and then. But notice that this is based on the canon of the comic books. A fanon work that has Lex getting a suit of armor and going out to do some fighting isn't going to raise any eyebrows because that's what he's known to do.

Canon Jail, on the other hand, does not have a record of suiting up and going out to kick magical girl ass; instead he sits around in his lab, plotting his nefarious schemes and getting other people to do his dirty work for him. At first this is just the Gadgets, then the Numbers join the mix and finally there's Zest, Agito and Lutecia, but at no time does Jail ever give even the slightest hint that he would like to show his face on the battlefield and do a little asskicking himself.

Stated simply, direct confrontations are not in Jail's nature. He'll operate through his minions but he'll never fight himself unless it's absolutely necessary to his own survival, and even then he won't be very good at it. Using Jail (or Quattro) as a frontline fighter is as much a perversion of their characters as using Caro as a fistfighter would be.

As I said to Keroko, combine that with a bit of Savage close combat and the things will improve a lot

Now if Armored Jail is a last resort thing that shows up right at the very end when Jail has exhausted all his other options, that's another story. But it would still be more appropriate for him to pull out some kind of Lost Logia he'd kept hidden (perhaps a whole Jewel Seed) and go One Winged Angel on his opponent instead of jumping into a suit of armor.

Duh... what do you think is making that armor works? What do you think is inside that red vail? I though it was pretty obvius

[Comartemis]

As I said to Keroko, combine that with a bit of Savage close combat and the things will improve a lot

You're missing the point! Jail doesn't do "savage close combat" any more than Caro does! Setting aside your hatred for the Forwards for a moment, if you were writing a fic about them would you write a scene where Caro busts out some cool martial arts moves and kicks some poor guy's ass? Of course you wouldn't, because Caro isn't a close combat fighter! Heck, she isn't a fighter period! So why do you think you can do this with Jail?

Duh... what do you think is making that armor works? What do you think is inside that red vail? I though it was pretty obvius

You mean the red blob in the middle of his chest that looks suspiciously similar to a clown's nose? That doesn't look anything like any Lost Logia I've ever seen.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

You're missing the point! Jail doesn't do "savage close combat" any more than Caro does! Setting aside your hatred for the Forwards for a moment, if you were writing a fic about them would you write a scene where Caro busts out some cool martial arts moves and kicks some poor guy's ass? Of course you wouldn't, because Caro isn't a close combat fighter! Heck, she isn't a fighter period! So why do you think you can do this with Jail?

Do you have a fork at hand? Because you'll be eating your words very soon
And yes, Caro could stand in hand to hand combat

You mean the red blob in the middle of his chest that looks suspiciously similar to a clown's nose? That doesn't look anything like any Lost Logia I've ever seen.

Is a lost Logia INSIDE the red vail

[Comartemis]

Do you have a fork at hand? Because you'll be eating your words very soon

Why don't you explain how this is going to work first?

And yes, Caro could stand in hand to hand combat

....

....

Rick, you have no idea how much my faith in your intelligence has been shaken by that statement. Please tell me you aren't thick enough to think Caro could hold a candle to the other melee-oriented mages in this series? Pretty please? With sugar on top and all that jazz?

I mean, she's only the most useless mage in the series when her summons aren't around to give her a hand, but I suppose theoretically she could win a sparring match with Signum or Subaru... if you tied them down with several layers of Struggle Binds, stripped them naked and smashed their devices, she could probably win. Probably.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Why don't you explain how this is going to work first?

Before the week is out, I'll show you a thing or two

Rick, you have no idea how much my faith in your intelligence has been shaken by that statement. Please tell me you aren't thick enough to think Caro could hold a candle to the other melee-oriented mages in this series? Pretty please? With sugar on top and all that jazz?

Hmmm... let me see... I made a comic of 15 chapters and 14 are alredy posted, I made Vatican Knights, a fic of 76 chapters, I'm currently on Chapter 23 of my fic, Vita Shadows of the Past, I have drawed events, Full color renders of My characters, OCs who break the typical esteriotype, hmm... yes, I'm totally an Idiot in fanfics

I mean, she's only the most useless mage in the series when her summons aren't around to give her a hand, but I suppose theoretically she could win a sparring match with Signum or Subaru... if you tied them down with several layers of Struggle Binds, stripped them naked and smashed their devices, she could probably win. Probably.

That's the diference between you and me Comar, you give up really easy in terms of creativity, while I'm gonna try waht everyone think is imposible

To resume, I'll never say that something is imposible unless I have alredy tried to make it

[Comartemis]

Before the week is out, I'll show you a thing or two

I'll lose interest by the end of the week; Attention Deficit Disorder and all that. I'll find something shiny to look at and miss your release, which I'm sure will be very interesting but I've got this piece of tinsel I'm playing with right now...

So tell me now or I'll assume you don't have a plan and that you're flying by the seat of your pants.

Hmmm... let me see... I made a comic of 15 chapters and 14 are alredy posted, I made Vatican Knights, a fic of 76 chapters, I'm currently on Chapter 23 of my fic, Vita Shadows of the Past, I have drawed events, Full color renders of My characters, OCs who break the typical esteriotype, hmm... yes, I'm totally an Idiot in fanfics

Surely you jest. You use the quantity of fan material you have created as proof of brilliance in fanmade works? I think not. Quantity is not proof of quality Rick, and it never has been.

That's the diference between you and me Comar, you give up really easy in terms of creativity, while I'm gonna try waht everyone think is imposible

To resume, I'll never say that something is imposible unless I have alredy tried to make it

And you'll trample on anything resembling common sense while you're at it. And you're avoiding the question; I'm still waiting for you to explain how Caro could ever dream of being a hand-to-hand fighter with her current skillset.

[Kagerou]

I'm probably not gonna get this post out in time for E_R to see it but hopefully he'll edit it to adhere to it.

If the two of you are gonna get into a battle of wills, can you move it to PMs?

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

I'll lose interest by the end of the week; Attention Deficit Disorder and all that. I'll find something shiny to look at and miss your release, which I'm sure will be very interesting but I've got this piece of tinsel I'm playing with right now...

This word only shows that you are the kind of people who judge without even know what you are judging, to bad for you, to bad >.>...

So tell me now or I'll assume you don't have a plan and that you're flying by the seat of your pants.

If I haven't nothing planed wouldn't be a bit illogical to make that render of Battlesuit Jail? -_-;

But now that you insist, I'm gonna show a drawed battle between Battle Armor Jail and my OC Happy Nightmare against Erio and Caro, to prob that Jail (and Caro) can be worked on hand to hand combat, it's still Work in progrees to the future in Vita Shadows of the Past so I need soime time to prwepare hwat I have, that's why I was asking to wait before the week is out

Surely you jest. You use the quantity of fan material you have created as proof of brilliance in fanmade works? I think not. Quantity is not proof of quality Rick, and it never has been.

Why you have to belive me? Go to the Nanoha Fanfiction thread and ask about the works I mentionated

And you'll trample on anything resembling common sense while you're at it. And you're avoiding the question; I'm still waiting for you to explain how Caro could ever dream of being a hand-to-hand fighter with her current skillset.

I alredy said, work in progress to be posted before the week is out

Originally Posted by Kagerou

If the two of you are gonna get into a battle of wills, can you move it to PMs?

Why? We are discusing about OCs, don't?

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

I alredy said, work in progress to be posted before the week is out

I must say I'm also curious, can you give us a short summary of the idea?

[Kagerou]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Why? We are discusing about OCs, don't?

That's a longshot in this case. I don't want another Ego Battle cluttering up the thread. I'm trying to maintain a friendly atmosphere...