Code Geass R2 - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Major1138]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Just give it up and let them think whatever falsehood that they read on whatever lulz themed blog or forum that they want to believe. It's been pretty evident to me for a while now that some people either don't understand this shows working narrative, don't want to understand it or just plain haven't even watched the episodes they spout off about yet so there's no point in trying to explain it. I've been trying to explain things about this show through my blog for 18 episodes now and met with nothing more then stubborn blockheaded and closedmindedness.

Hell I even tried explaining this very simple and completely easy to follow diplomacy/peace talks scenario and people just completely ignored me and went on complaining. Nothing ever changes as far as the typical complaining and blowing scenes way out of proportion for lulz goes. Some people have just convinced themselves of the idea that the series makes no sense so that they can lulz about it and yet some other people are just taking a sour grapes attitude like Orga777 suggested so there's no point in continuing. They aren't worth convincing anyway. Just let it go.....try once then let it go. I suggest this solution to everybody who watched the scene and got it. It doesn't mean we are wrong, it just means we aren't playing their game anymore.

I understand exactly what happened. Schneizel and company played their hand brilliantly. Everything the presented was either the truth (Zero is Lelouch vi Britannia) or actually happened (the recording of Suzaku & Lelouch is genuine, and not falsified). The implication is Schneizel makes is that Lelouch has been controlling them with his Geass and that they're all just pawns in some crazy game of his. On top of that, the moment which galvanized the Black Knights and the people of Japan, the massacre at the SAZ, turns out to have been engineered by Lelouch. I'm not too surprised they would be willing to betray him at that point.

What I don't really understand is why they would believe Schneizel and his evidence in the first place. His claims are ludicrous - Zero is actually a Prince of Britannia with mind control powers. I would have thrown him off the Ikaruga at that point. But even if I decided to humour him, its not as though he presents iron-clad evidence. Zero is a prince because I say so? He's got a crazy mind control power because I say so and can present some files and a recording (which could be fake)? Come on. Even if you say that Schneizel is exploiting the mistrust that has been slowly building up around Zero (which he is - and it works), I find it hard to believe that they *all* would be so willing to make a deal. Even if you grant that the Japanese members would be pissed about finding out Zero is responsible for Euphemia's massacre, I'm still not sure why Diethard even gives a crap - his initial defense of Zero still makes perfect sense - "your claims are bullshit, but even if they aren't, I don't care because Zero gets results"

Now obviously the story has to advance, so I'll just file it under "the show must go on", but it's ridiculous to think that the plotting is airtight and that anyone questioning it is some deluded fanboy.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Nina wanted it attached. Suzaku could have said no.

Suzaku's not that bright.

He figured if he didn't take it, someone else would....which of course ignores the fact that obviously he has no choice but to live, even if it means killing 35 million people, and the fact that Schneizel can make more that can be given to other pilots. so yeah, Suzaku's not that bright.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Orga777

You are right actually. Why do you think everyone sees parallels between Charles and Lelouch? But Schneizel is WAY too different from them. He doesn't play by their rules. He has a set of his own.


I don't think Schneizel is behind it at all actually. Eventually he will be Geassed into talking (just as Clovis and Cornelia were) he may KNOW more than the others, but he may not be behind it (hell, that may be why he doesn't like his father for all we know.)

That's assuming if we'll ever find the truth about it.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by leechbox

Some spoilers so watch out, but you've already seen everything, so its not really a spoiler...

So basically he loses everything

Originally Posted by Klashikari

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.................................

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Suzaku's not that bright.

He figured if he didn't take it, someone else would....which of course ignores the fact that obviously he has no choice but to live, even if it means killing 35 million people, and the fact that Schneizel can make more that can be given to other pilots. so yeah, Suzaku's not that bright.

We can agree on that.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I simply stated that Ougi broke the deadlock between the two and that Zero's presence wasn't there which didn't help him.

That much you can agree no?

He's attitude of "everyone who don't agree with me, you're a moron" isn't exactly gonna earn respect.

Anyways, yes, Ougi being the final tip-over I agree with.
But I do think Schneizel is manupilative, and unfair, which you disagree with.

Schneizel is slowly showing his antagonist nature, IMO.

[leechbox]

Sorry, i removed the spoilers ASAP, so its gone now. Sorry!!!

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Orga777

If he brings in Zero/Lelouch? I wouldn't see why not. And since I see him going against his father any way he can, he would do it. And I don't think the Emperor will care. He has other plans.

That's true, but I was more wondering on the lines of does Schneizel have the authority to do that without going to the Emperor first. At the end of the day though Charles is basically hovering over the basically giant button of win for him.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by aohige

He's attitude of "everyone who don't agree with me, you're a moron" isn't exactly gonna earn respect.

Anyways, yes, Ougi being the final tip-over I agree with.
But I do think Schneizel is manupilative, and unfair, which you disagree with.

Schneizel is slowly showing his antagonist nature, IMO.

Well like I said, even if Zero was there he would just geass everyone so that wouldn't be fair.

The most fairest would be to take them to some isolated area, give them the evidence, then lock up Zero in a box with a intercom on it there and question him from there.

But we don't have time for that now do we?

And like I said, first time Kallen learned the truth she ran away and it took awhile for her to trust him again.

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

It's extremely difficult however and I doubt anyone would have the time to decipher it all.

Though the fact remains that Ougi pointed it out before Schenzeil brough the evidence forth.

Even then, it doesn't change the fact that Lelouch DID geassed Euphie to massacre the japanese and that in itself is the truth.



Unfair?

That's probably as fair as you would get as the moment Zero steps into that room all he has to do is geass everyone to commit suicide.

That and the knights were trying to get a hold of him but couldn't.

Actually the geass on Euphie went off by itself. It was an accident, Lelouch did not wanted that to happen. But since it happen he had to rided and use it to his advantage. Only person that knows it was an accident was CC

[morbosfist]

They don't know how his Geass works. He could control them all as far as they know.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

That's assuming if we'll ever find the truth about it.

That is too important to ignore. It was the major cause of the series.

Originally Posted by aohige

Anyways, yes, Ougi being the final tip-over I agree with.
But I do think Schneizel is manupilative, and unfair, which you disagree with.

Schneizel is slowly showing his antagonist nature, IMO.

I don't think that is being fair to Schneizel though. He had all his information and nothing was lied about either. We the audience know everything that happened, but the characters don't. What Schneizel had he thinks is all true information and the recording is just the tip of it all.

And he is an antagonist... to Lelouch anyway.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Suzaku's not that bright.

He figured if he didn't take it, someone else would....which of course ignores the fact that obviously he has no choice but to live, even if it means killing 35 million people, and the fact that Schneizel can make more that can be given to other pilots. so yeah, Suzaku's not that bright.

Well I think he could have atleast saved the people at the one battle sort of a live to fight another day sort of thing.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

And like I said, first time Kallen learned the truth she ran away and it took awhile for her to trust him again.

Which I was kind of dissapointed in her a bit... I would have expected her to learn how Lulu thinks and act by now. If it wasn't for his last words, she may have misunderstood his action forever.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by bbduece

Actually the geass coomand used on Euphie went off by itself. It was an accident, Lelouch did not wanted that to happen. But since it happen he had to rided and use it to his advantage. Only person that knows it was an accident was CC

That's equivalent to a man confessing he slept with another woman and argued that he was drunk

"Yes I geassed Euphie but it was an accident."

"How?"

"My geass got out of control."

"really? "

"Well I kinda made a joke about killing japanese people..."

.........................<..<'

The argument would then be to draw and quarter him and hang him up to dry as his Geass is a dangerous weapon that could accidently cause another "accident"

[dee32]

I wish Kallen and Jerimah were at the meeting at least they would have spoke up for Zero and presented his side of the story. Tho I doubt they would have been believed. Schniezel just would have said that they are under the effects of Zero's geass.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

That's equivalent to a man confessing he slept with another woman and argued that he was drunk

"Yes I geassed Euphie but it was an accident."

"How?"

"My geass got out of control."

"really? "

"Well I kinda made a joke about killing japanese people..."

.........................<..<'

The argument would then be to draw and quarter him and hang him up to dry as his Geass is a dangerous weapon that could accidently cause another "accident"

Well, Lelouch isn't one to make excuses for his actions anyway. it was his fault, nothing can change that.

[defrule]

Originally Posted by dee32

I wish Kallen and Jerimah were at the meeting at least they would have spoke up for Zero and presented his side of the story. Tho I doubt they would have been believed. Schniezel just would have said that they are under the effects of Zero's geass.

I R Geass Canceller!

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by dee32

I wish Kallen and Jerimah were at the meeting at least they would have spoke up for Zero and presented his side of the story. Tho I doubt they would have been believed. Schniezel just would have said that they are under the effects of Zero's geass.

Again it wouldn't do any good.

The tipping point was the massacre, simple as that. The rest the knights defended against but not the massacre.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by dee32

I wish Kallen and Jerimah were at the meeting at least they would have spoke up for Zero and presented his side of the story. Tho I doubt they would have been believed. Schniezel just would have said that they are under the effects of Zero's geass.

He'll just say he has Geass canceler lol.