AnimeSuki Forums

Ero-Senn1n · 2013-04-15, 12:23

It seems only dead people can make Sasuke change, dead Itachi, dead Hashirama

If Naruto hears this he might...

Hunter · 2013-04-15, 12:36

What you're saying is simply untrue. Sasuke didn't drop the revenge act, in fact he specifically said exactly the opposite after Edo-Itachi was released. Itachi didn't convince him of anything, Sasuke just couldn't understand him at all and decided he had to before committing himself to the end.
You're also wrong in saying that his brother did the same than Hashirama. Itachi told Sasuke he loved him unconditionally much like Naruto considers him a friend no matter what which is not what Shodai did in the slightest.
Itachi's last words were of his absolute love for Sasuke, there was nothing to reinforce or understand about that and Hashirama didn't adress this at all. Shodai doesn't like, love or even know Sasuke. What he did however is respect him enough to give him the answers of his questions to do as he thought was right which is pretty much a first in Sasuke's life.

I know I will not convince you when the subject is Itachi but it really is that simple, Itachi died leaving Sasuke with only lies and returned from the grave leaving him with his love but no understanding of his actions nor change in Sasuke's philosophy.
The man who finally did go through Sasuke is Hashirama and that's probably because he didn't want anything from him in the first place.

itachi-san314 · 2013-04-15, 12:58

you said itachi didn't change sasuke's course for revenge, but after sasuke left edo-itachi, he no longer was on the revenge course. he was on a quest for knowledge

james0246 · 2013-04-15, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

you said itachi didn't change sasuke's course for revenge, but after sasuke left edo-itachi, he no longer was on the revenge course. he was on a quest for knowledge

Arguably, Sasuke has always been on a quest for knowledge. He sought Itachi to ask him why, and he would have been satisfied with Itachi's answer (not knowing it to be a lie) until Tobi appeared and gave Sasuke more information, which led to his vendetta against Konoha. Sasuke has always sought to understand why his clan was destroyed, and while I do not believe he will ever fully understand (considering we don't, I see no way Sasuke ever could), he has at least reached a point where further information will only add additional context but not necessarily relevancy to any decisions Sasuke makes.

itachi-san314 · 2013-04-15, 13:25

I dont know about that. Yes, he always wanted knowledge, but his character arcs have been much more specific in terms of revenge. he wanted to kill itachi. then he wanted to brutally kill konoha's elders. when he appeared on the battlefield in the war, he had murderous intent and wanted to destroy everyone in konoha. when he left edo-itachi he was calm and collected, wanted knowledge and wasn't seeking revenge on anyone

Hunter · 2013-04-15, 14:11

You keep repeating that but it will not make it true, vengeance was still very much on his mind after Edo-Itachi was released, he flatly said to Orochimaru that he had not given up on his revenge and that in fact meeting Itachi again had only added on his hatred for Konoha and he repeated it during this very flashback, re-read his interaction with Nidaime if you've forgotten already.
He just wanted answers first. Sasuke has always wanted answers from the moment he asked his brother why when he was 7 years old and covered with his parent's blood to the day Itachi died when he kept asking him who was his accomplice and why did they do it. He also asked questions from Obito and refused to believe him outright and the first thing he did when meeting Danzou was trying to confirm what he had learned, something he did again when he met Edo-Itachi.

As Itachi told him, he treated him like an abused child and should have faced Sasuke properly and tell him the truth instead. He didn't and things went very wrong. Hashirama however did just that and apparently it worked.

itachi-san314 · 2013-04-15, 14:19

i guess it depends on what your definition of 'course' is. it's true that depending on how hashirama handled sasuke's interrogation, sasuke could have gone either way. but sasuke's 'course' after meeting with edo-itachi was not one of revenge. he could have gone back on the revenge course after the hokage meeting, but you initially said that itachi did nothing to change sasuke's course. if that's true, then he would have went back to the battlefield and murdered konoha villagers like his original intent prior to meeting edo-itachi. instead he went on a course with the sole purpose of gaining knowledge

Casshern · 2013-04-15, 15:46

Imo Itachi cured Sasuke's hatred with his love, similar to how Naruto did with the kyuubi (fill the vessel with love), but Sasuke's logic was still on the side of revenge. Then shodai gave Sasuke the full picture which equiped Sasuke with the information to make a new decision.

Hunter · 2013-04-15, 17:03

And that will be my last contribution on the subject, if Sasuke stating outright that he still intend to enact his revenge and that he's still hating Konoha after meeting his brother can't convince you that it wasn't Itachi who changed that then nothing will.

itachi-san314 · 2013-04-15, 17:58

that's all well and good, but what did he actually do after stating that? did he go after konoha on the revenge course he was on prior to meeting edo-itachi, or did he do what i've been saying all along and search out knowledge rather than revenge? there have been many instances in this manga where what someone says means next to nothing. freeing the hokages was exactly 'hesitating about his revenge' so his words that you quoted are meaningless. i'm going by his actions which are stronger than words

yogotah · 2013-04-15, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It seems only dead people can make Sasuke change, dead Itachi, dead Hashirama

If Naruto hears this he might...

Lol

we have the same sense of humor

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2013-04-15, 22:11

It's a pity though.. its gonna take so many to stop the Jyuubi but it only took one in the past to stop it. So ofcourse i was hoping that someone.... would summon the the son who became the forefather of the Uchiha. The one who truly hated his brother who was the forfather of the Senju. If anything else... they would probably be truly epic. And be stronger then Madara.

It's a pity because it feels like everything is rushing towards the end of the series. We will never get to see Naruto become a responsible sensei. He will probably jump from genin to all time Hokage who leads all other kages from all villages. End. Which would be a disappointment.

Since there were so many side stories or possibilities:
- Tsunade no longer a 50 yr old virgin (perhaps cuz of her healing and special abilities still having a baby, who doesnt want to see that?

)
- Sakura falling in love with... Sai.
- Sasuke ending up with... Kiba (confessing he's gay)
- Shikamaru an unrivalled player (dealing with all the chicks in a genius way)
- Naruto perhaps giving up his title on purpose... making Sasuke Hokage the first Uchiha.
Naruto leaving the village to write his own novel.

ranchan13 · 2013-04-15, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Naruto leaving the village to write his own novel.

I would most like to see him take this path. Naruto following in Jiraiya's footsteps would be poetic. Jiraiya was always more of a father figure to Naruto than the 4th anyways, and it would be fitting that he'd emulate the one father figure he had.

Iruka was more of an older brother at best

SoloPanda · 2013-04-15, 23:24

So the dead people are gonna show up with that uchiha guy (forgot his name) anyway they go to seal the Juubi but that will destroy the bijuu. and Naruto will jump in and disrupt the sealing process to save them and instantly change places with sasuke (crap i said it). He'll become the villain and sasuke will be the "hero" who has to find naruto who's hording the power of alot of tailed beasts! Naruto will move about like Jiraya did while hanging on to the bijuu to keep them safe and search for an answer to the worlds problems. time skip a few years (-----) then some other stuff will happen cause i got tired of writing my little extremely unlikely prediction....

james0246 · 2013-04-16, 07:35

New chapter thread has been started a little early this week. No official spoilers yet, but there is a strong possibility of spoilers very soon.

Casshern · 2013-04-16, 13:45

I found a logical way for Sakura to end up with Sasuke. Sasuke dies in the war, Sakura brings him back with edo tensei and bam instant sex slave.

milan kyuubi · 2013-04-16, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0 kelvin

In the last, about... 30 chapters, I noticed something unexplained: where is the old geezer Madara? Did he decease after saving Obito to later on be ressurected with Edo Tensei?

He probably did when Nagato summoned Gedo Mazo statue. Since it has been stated he will die the moment he stops receiving chakra from the statue.

Hunter · 2013-04-16, 23:27

Madara literately pulled the plug on himself after he finished explaining to Obito what he had to do chapter 606.

milan kyuubi · 2013-04-17, 00:10

We don't know that for sure. There is a greater chance he stayed until he could to see if Obito will fail/betray him.

Destined_Fate · 2013-04-17, 01:04

Still wondering where the heck they stashed Anko...

Seems like Anko, like Sakura, has been forgotten.

2013-04-15, 22:11	Link #232
Mr. Johnny 5 Konoha's ANBU Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 38	It's a pity though.. its gonna take so many to stop the Jyuubi but it only took one in the past to stop it. So ofcourse i was hoping that someone.... would summon the the son who became the forefather of the Uchiha. The one who truly hated his brother who was the forfather of the Senju. If anything else... they would probably be truly epic. And be stronger then Madara. It's a pity because it feels like everything is rushing towards the end of the series. We will never get to see Naruto become a responsible sensei. He will probably jump from genin to all time Hokage who leads all other kages from all villages. End. Which would be a disappointment. Since there were so many side stories or possibilities: - Tsunade no longer a 50 yr old virgin (perhaps cuz of her healing and special abilities still having a baby, who doesnt want to see that? ) - Sakura falling in love with... Sai. - Sasuke ending up with... Kiba (confessing he's gay) - Shikamaru an unrivalled player (dealing with all the chicks in a genius way) - Naruto perhaps giving up his title on purpose... making Sasuke Hokage the first Uchiha. Naruto leaving the village to write his own novel. __________________

2013-04-17, 00:10	Link #239
milan kyuubi Call me MK! :) Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The top of the world. Age: 34	We don't know that for sure. There is a greater chance he stayed until he could to see if Obito will fail/betray him. __________________ My Twitter account! *Thanks to* Godlike1889 *for the sig*!

2013-04-15, 12:23	Link #221
Ero-Senn1n Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hidden Village of Sake	It seems only dead people can make Sasuke change, dead Itachi, dead Hashirama If Naruto hears this he might...

2013-04-15, 12:36	Link #222
Hunter Bubbly and super fun Join Date: May 2003 Location: Doesn't look like Kansas	What you're saying is simply untrue. Sasuke didn't drop the revenge act, in fact he specifically said exactly the opposite after Edo-Itachi was released. Itachi didn't convince him of anything, Sasuke just couldn't understand him at all and decided he had to before committing himself to the end. You're also wrong in saying that his brother did the same than Hashirama. Itachi told Sasuke he loved him unconditionally much like Naruto considers him a friend no matter what which is not what Shodai did in the slightest. Itachi's last words were of his absolute love for Sasuke, there was nothing to reinforce or understand about that and Hashirama didn't adress this at all. Shodai doesn't like, love or even know Sasuke. What he did however is respect him enough to give him the answers of his questions to do as he thought was right which is pretty much a first in Sasuke's life. I know I will not convince you when the subject is Itachi but it really is that simple, Itachi died leaving Sasuke with only lies and returned from the grave leaving him with his love but no understanding of his actions nor change in Sasuke's philosophy. The man who finally did go through Sasuke is Hashirama and that's probably because he didn't want anything from him in the first place.

2013-04-15, 12:58	Link #223
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	you said itachi didn't change sasuke's course for revenge, but after sasuke left edo-itachi, he no longer was on the revenge course. he was on a quest for knowledge

2013-04-15, 13:25	Link #225
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	I dont know about that. Yes, he always wanted knowledge, but his character arcs have been much more specific in terms of revenge. he wanted to kill itachi. then he wanted to brutally kill konoha's elders. when he appeared on the battlefield in the war, he had murderous intent and wanted to destroy everyone in konoha. when he left edo-itachi he was calm and collected, wanted knowledge and wasn't seeking revenge on anyone

2013-04-15, 14:11	Link #226
Hunter Bubbly and super fun Join Date: May 2003 Location: Doesn't look like Kansas	You keep repeating that but it will not make it true, vengeance was still very much on his mind after Edo-Itachi was released, he flatly said to Orochimaru that he had not given up on his revenge and that in fact meeting Itachi again had only added on his hatred for Konoha and he repeated it during this very flashback, re-read his interaction with Nidaime if you've forgotten already. He just wanted answers first. Sasuke has always wanted answers from the moment he asked his brother why when he was 7 years old and covered with his parent's blood to the day Itachi died when he kept asking him who was his accomplice and why did they do it. He also asked questions from Obito and refused to believe him outright and the first thing he did when meeting Danzou was trying to confirm what he had learned, something he did again when he met Edo-Itachi. As Itachi told him, he treated him like an abused child and should have faced Sasuke properly and tell him the truth instead. He didn't and things went very wrong. Hashirama however did just that and apparently it worked.

2013-04-15, 14:19	Link #227
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	i guess it depends on what your definition of 'course' is. it's true that depending on how hashirama handled sasuke's interrogation, sasuke could have gone either way. but sasuke's 'course' after meeting with edo-itachi was not one of revenge. he could have gone back on the revenge course after the hokage meeting, but you initially said that itachi did nothing to change sasuke's course. if that's true, then he would have went back to the battlefield and murdered konoha villagers like his original intent prior to meeting edo-itachi. instead he went on a course with the sole purpose of gaining knowledge

2013-04-15, 15:46	Link #228
Casshern Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Imo Itachi cured Sasuke's hatred with his love, similar to how Naruto did with the kyuubi (fill the vessel with love), but Sasuke's logic was still on the side of revenge. Then shodai gave Sasuke the full picture which equiped Sasuke with the information to make a new decision.

2013-04-15, 17:03	Link #229
Hunter Bubbly and super fun Join Date: May 2003 Location: Doesn't look like Kansas	And that will be my last contribution on the subject, if Sasuke stating outright that he still intend to enact his revenge and that he's still hating Konoha after meeting his brother can't convince you that it wasn't Itachi who changed that then nothing will.

2013-04-15, 17:58	Link #230
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	that's all well and good, but what did he actually do after stating that? did he go after konoha on the revenge course he was on prior to meeting edo-itachi, or did he do what i've been saying all along and search out knowledge rather than revenge? there have been many instances in this manga where what someone says means next to nothing. freeing the hokages was exactly 'hesitating about his revenge' so his words that you quoted are meaningless. i'm going by his actions which are stronger than words

2013-04-15, 23:24	Link #234
SoloPanda Not A Loli-con.... Join Date: May 2011 Location: Beyond the looking glass	So the dead people are gonna show up with that uchiha guy (forgot his name) anyway they go to seal the Juubi but that will destroy the bijuu. and Naruto will jump in and disrupt the sealing process to save them and instantly change places with sasuke (crap i said it). He'll become the villain and sasuke will be the "hero" who has to find naruto who's hording the power of alot of tailed beasts! Naruto will move about like Jiraya did while hanging on to the bijuu to keep them safe and search for an answer to the worlds problems. time skip a few years (-----) then some other stuff will happen cause i got tired of writing my little extremely unlikely prediction....

2013-04-16, 07:35	Link #235
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	New chapter thread has been started a little early this week. No official spoilers yet, but there is a strong possibility of spoilers very soon.

2013-04-16, 13:45	Link #236
Casshern Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	I found a logical way for Sakura to end up with Sasuke. Sasuke dies in the war, Sakura brings him back with edo tensei and bam instant sex slave.

2013-04-16, 23:27	Link #238
Hunter Bubbly and super fun Join Date: May 2003 Location: Doesn't look like Kansas	Madara literately pulled the plug on himself after he finished explaining to Obito what he had to do chapter 606.

2013-04-17, 01:04	Link #240
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Still wondering where the heck they stashed Anko... Seems like Anko, like Sakura, has been forgotten.