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Old 2009-09-06, 01:40   Link #1661
Xander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Girls don't normally rip clothes off other girls. You'd have to be in a huge fit of denial (past TM8 levels) not to accept what is happening if that scene plays out like it does in the preview imo. This is after all a TV-MA title.
Of course not, I don't believe physical torture and psychological abuse are normal, but that wasn't my point. Denial isn't the real issue here when we're talking about events that haven't happened yet. Previews are previews.

There is more than one possibility and there would be a difference between actual and, say, attempted rape.

I'm certainly not trying to deny anything at this point. It is just a matter of asking for a little patience. Is that bad?

What's more, even though the anime has been quite faithful to the game, it has also introduced a few differences.
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Old 2009-09-06, 03:42   Link #1662
Nayrael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
EDIT: And another thing..
Spoiler for Episode 23:
Carefully rewatch the scene again. There is a reason she didn't shoot before the music stopped.
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Old 2009-09-06, 04:22   Link #1663
Mentar
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Careful interpreting the preview, guys. Cal hasn't been physically violent towards Mio in episode 23 (though she did take some pleasure in scaring the hell out of her), and the preview scenes had a reason. Reps for the non-VN-player who can piece together what it might be - and as a minor hint: Throughout the game _and_ the anime, Mio is the most perceptive and empathetic character by far.

If I had to give the episodes names from now on, it would be:

Episode 24: Mio
Episode 25: Phantoms
Episode 26: Inferno
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Old 2009-09-06, 07:17   Link #1664
DragoZERO
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AHHH! Why are there no spoiler tags for the VN!? I got a bad feeling from the preview but now I fear the worst. Thank you Orion!
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Old 2009-09-06, 07:50   Link #1665
Aqua Knight
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Stupid Cal.She's really dumb thinking that she was Reiji's ex. And now that she killed Lizie.
I hope she just dies. I also want Mio's theme - it so awesome m this combo of guitar and piano just makes my day.
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Old 2009-09-06, 07:58   Link #1666
Mentar
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Originally Posted by 17th_warrior View Post
Stupid Cal.She's really dumb thinking that she was Reiji's ex.
Really? That's what she was. At least I can't blame her for thinking this way after both vowing to each other to be together forever.
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:01   Link #1667
Aqua Knight
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Well, there were no indications like from the VN( I haven't played but I've know some things about it). For me it was more like a bro-sis relationship.
Also I've looked through VN CGS... Meh, everyone's so ugly there. Its great that in anime everyone's much much better, especially Elen.
And Mio is my choice for Reiji. Hope SM dolls can kick some ass.
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:02   Link #1668
miroku2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Careful interpreting the preview, guys. Cal hasn't been physically violent towards Mio in episode 23 (though she did take some pleasure in scaring the hell out of her), and the preview scenes had a reason. Reps for the non-VN-player who can piece together what it might be - and as a minor hint: Throughout the game _and_ the anime, Mio is the most perceptive and empathetic character by far.
Man...Cal just looks realllllllly jealous now. This whole "What do YOU know about him...huH? Not only was i his apprentice, but i was ALSO HIS 'EX-GF'!"

I hope Cal doesn't go crazy and start "raping" mio "just because" she wants to show her the 'pain she has gone through'. Idk, i hope it's a good reason that Cal starts doing what she's doing, or else i might start losin some respect. But i still love her! So hopefully we can bring her back and knock some sense into her!

- Anyway, on a more serious note...I hope those 6 (?) girls from the intro with the masks and all "act" as the catalyst to bring Cal back to Reiji. Though...I just get this terrrrrrible feeling like Ein might die with the whole preview speech she had..."as long as you live, it'll be proof that i lived" (No ein! We haven't shown you your past yet! Don't die!)

-Also, @ dragon who said the scene with Cal and Lizzie showdown was useless. No, it had to be "that long". Any shorter and Lizzie's sacrifice would seem even more "less trivial" if that makes sense. She's a great character, and it's a shame to see her go...also quite heartless for Cal to do what she has done. But even if lizzie was nice to cal when she was first brought in, I'm sure Cal would have both consciously and subconsciously blocked out any "emotional" feelings/attachment to anyone after what she "felt" with Reiji. It's a shame, yes, but the scene, though "long" and what might "seem" boring, definitely holds a lot of meaning.

IT was a good episode, and props again to Cal's Seiyuu, she is fantastic as always, especially the laugh after the motorcycle @ truck scene. I liked how it was just the sound of the motorcycle "screeching" to come back up...good moment.

-> And this is a small rant, but does anyone get the feel that there are some major inconsistencies with how Cal's face is drawn? It always feels different. I like her eyes from the intro much better-elevator- (and hopefully those are the eyes we GET/SEE after she "comes back" from the little hell hole she has dug herself and back into Reiji's arms (:P). Afterall, those eyes are quite beautiful, and it would not serve her justice if they don't put it in at all at some point :X)
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:10   Link #1669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17th_warrior View Post
Well, there were no indications like from the VN( I haven't played but I've know some things about it).
Well... to quote Reiji from episode 19:

"Cal... I don't want to leave you. I want to stay by your side forever. I want to help you. I just... want to be with you. I get it now. I really do want to go back. By doing that, I can stay with you."

That's pretty much, wouldn't you think?
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:18   Link #1670
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Well... to quote Reiji from episode 19:

"Cal... I don't want to leave you. I want to stay by your side forever. I want to help you. I just... want to be with you. I get it now. I really do want to go back. By doing that, I can stay with you."

That's pretty much, wouldn't you think?
That could mean almost anything especially since the guy wasn't thinking right at that point. It's easy for her to interpret it that way.

This is why there are things called proposals and rings and clarifications which wasn't done back then. As in it isn't official until the ring is placed on her finger. Even then forever isn't forever. GF and BF never vow to stay with each other forever. This is somethng that "family" do. It's a more stronger bond and promise imo.

Thinking that a BF will pledge to stay with you forever is a fantasy little girls have from fairytales that they were raised on. It's a sign of immaturity imo and usually disappears when one starts to date. And so, this goes with Cal's immature state of being way back then. She was dressing worse than a 10 yo (A compliment since my 6 yo niece was dressed better than her) and acting like one (Again another complement since my niece was also more mature than her.). It's painfuly clear that Cal wasn't socializing with her peers or she wouldn't be in this mess in the first place imo. Her "world" would have expanded and she would know what was "not" really happening imo. She would have less fears of abandonment as she would have gone thru the cycle of birth and death of friendship and partnership. Unfortunately, her "world" contracted again this time by her own hands. The chick has a screw loose imo.

We'll never know what Reiji was thinking until he spits it out imo.

It's still "He said. She said." imo.

*watching Umineko broadens your analysis skills*
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Last edited by orion; 2009-09-06 at 08:48.
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:23   Link #1671
Zwei
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I'm so anxious. I want to see ep. 24 so bad....sooooo baaad.

Once ep. 24 is out, I got a feeling we can predict the ending.
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:30   Link #1672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
That could mean almost anything especially since the guy wasn't thinking right at that point. It's easy for her to interpret it that way.
Well, when you argue "the guy wasn't thinking right at that point", then any discussion is pointless in the first place. Besides, he was thinking right. He was fed up with the Inferno life, and he felt that by staying with Cal he could regain his former self. Cal was who breathed new life into him, gave his life a new purpose, and he wanted to be with her and leave the nightmare behind. We know that this wasn't spoken easily out of a whim. He approached Cal after alot of thinking.

Quote:
This is why there are things called proposals and rings. As in it isn't official until the ring is placed on her finger. Even then forever isn't forever. GF and BF never vow to stay with each other forever. This is somethng that "family" do.
Wow, that was a confusing paragraph. GF amd BF never vow to stay with each other? Guess you haven't been around much, orion ^_^; ... and what was that about proposal rings? Cal and Reiji didn't have any, but so what? Cal considers herself Reiji's ex-girlfriend (motto koibito), and based on what I've listed up, she has every right to feel that way. And you don't need rings for that either.
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:32   Link #1673
evil-samurai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkard
Edit: Does anyone else think Cal looks happy/proud when she's telling Mio about Reiji and her and their past or is it just me?
I think she does a bit, not as much in this episode but in past episodes its shows more. (where she had more hope)

Although its clear, Cal (Drei) is a shadow of what she was (on the outside.) Parts of Cal's true inner feelings influence the dialoge that drei speaks, and her reactions. Just like when Cal was speaking to Ellen, "how about I kill you in front of reiji, I wonder what face he will make' Or when Cal says 'Dont make me laugh Zwei, are you that type of person' As evil as can read, deep down part of Cal loves mentioning reiji when she talks as if she knows him best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192
So hopefully we can bring her back and knock some sense into her!
We didn't have a whole Arc in which the main character development was with Cal and Reiji for nothing So a touching reuion is in order . We will see Cal regain herself, but I just hope that it ends happy for her which would be with Reiji. But then that leave Ellen.. who in my ideal ending would have a 'fake death' (so she can escape Inferno) and is able to return to her home and find herself... But mabye thats too happy for a show like this.. I hope not.
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:37   Link #1674
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Thinking that a BF will pledge to stay with you forever is a fantasy little girls have from fairytales that they were raised on. It's a sign of immaturity imo and usually disappears when one starts to date. And so, this goes with Cal's immature state of being way back then.
You do realize that only 1-2 eps in the past you called Cal a rabid dog who needs to be shot, now this?

What Reiji and Cal did back then does constitute something in the world of grown-ups. It did constitute a promise to care for each other. And pretending that it doesn't mean crap like you do is not a sign of immaturity on Cal's part, but rather a sign of irresponsibility und untrustworthiness on yours.

Besides, it's a moot point, since obviously Reiji does feel bound by his former promise.
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Old 2009-09-06, 08:53   Link #1675
orion
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
You do realize that only 1-2 eps in the past you called Cal a rabid dog who needs to be shot, now this?

What Reiji and Cal did back then does constitute something in the world of grown-ups. It did constitute a promise to care for each other. And pretending that it doesn't mean crap like you do is not a sign of immaturity on Cal's part, but rather a sign of irresponsibility und untrustworthiness on yours.

Besides, it's a moot point, since obviously Reiji does feel bound by his former promise.
No. It's a sign of being in reality.

That is more of a family promise. Again, not something that I place value on if you're not genetically connected. Sorry, it's the way I was raised.

Yes, I've been around. Couples do not pledge to be together forever nowadays. That pledge only exists in marriage and even then it isn't forever. This thinking that a BF or GF is going to be around forever is what gets people into problems dealing with a breakup imo.

No what Reiji and Cal did does not constitute much in the world of grownups as people who live together and enjoy a sexual relationship also do not promise to be together forever. It's a "let's see if we can live together as a couple first before gettng married so that we don't end up getting divorced later on" scenario for some. Marriage is the real promise. Or from some guys' perspective "Why buy the cow when you're getting the milk for free?"
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:03   Link #1676
miroku2192
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^Orion....again you're not thinking from REIJI's perspective. Really...what YOU want to do, what YOU think guys want to do, DOESN"T fit with what REIJI wants to do, and so REIJI's words are DIFFERENT from what you WANT to believe about him.

I'm sorry, i really can't side with you on this one. It just doesn't fit his character.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:03   Link #1677
Nayrael
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As it became a tradition, for God knows which reason Orion believes that ALL characters in Phantom share morals and opinions with Orion.

Just because YOU hold that opinion does not mean that THEY think the same way. That promise may mean nothing to YOU, but that does not mean that it means nothing to CHARACTERS.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:07   Link #1678
DragoZERO
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What's ley here is that the promise they made was and still is important to Cal. When you're 14 and someone you love promises to stay with you forever, after you lost everyone you know and care about, it will matter. The promise was a means to a future for Cal and a means to the past for Reiji except after Reiji thought Cal died Elen helped bring him to his past the kicker is that Cal had no one else and that's why we find her the way she is now.

Talk of marriage and boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are not relevant.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:07   Link #1679
orion
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Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
As it became a tradition, for God knows which reason Orion believes that ALL characters in Phantom share morals and opinions with Orion.

Just because YOU hold that opinion does not mean that THEY think the same way. That promise may mean nothing to YOU, but that does not mean that it means nothing to CHARACTERS.
No I don't believe that all characters have my morals. If they did, the anime would have ended when Lizzie shot Drei.

It's just an interpretation from the side lines which is what people normally do. If you don't like the viewpoints, not sorry one bit. Besides, you can't expect the game characters to have the exact same motivations back then as now or it will just be dated and the viewers won't connect as the world has changed since then. A viewpoint from circa 2000 will be different from 2009 as reality is a bit harsher now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
What's ley here is that the promise they made was and still is important to Cal. When you're 14 and someone you love promises to stay with you forever, after you lost everyone you know and care about, it will matter. The promise was a means to a future for Cal and a means to the past for Reiji except after Reiji thought Cal died Elen helped bring him to his past the kicker is that Cal had no one else and that's why we find her the way she is now.

Talk of marriage and boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are not relevant.
Not irrelevant as those are the relationships that couples go into. Family is the strongest and has the true "forever" bond. Everything else is only temporary. Cal's lack of socialization with her peers is the problem with her not recognizing this fact and prob why she's so good with fixing inanimate objects. Inanimate objects don't betray you.

A 14yo with good social skills does not act like Cal. That thinking is for someone under 10 yo imo.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:08   Link #1680
Mentar
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No. It's a sign of being in reality.

That is more of a family promise. Again, not something that I place value on if you're not genetically connected. Sorry, it's the way I was raised.
So in other words, in the way you were raised, when these words are spoken, they don't mean anything at all? That's what your parents have been teaching you? If that's indeed the case, please excuse me when I say I wouldn't want have to do anything to do with the likes of you. It's sickeningly selfish. And thank god it's not prevalent in any of the circles I'm frequenting (and most certainly not the way Reiji sees things)

Let's leave it at that.
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