(L) Girls und Panzer

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Someone on another forum said an Abrams' main gun would blow right through a Maus. No specific evidence was cited, but I have no real reason to doubt it. Armor, and the techniques to defeat it, have come a fair way in the last 70 years.

Modern tank guns will penetrate anywhere from 550mm - 900mm of RHA armor. The Maus' armor will confer no defense against that kind of firepower.

While tank companies and battalions may have trouble dealing with a Maus, tank generals will have little trouble doing so. All they have to do is to attack where the Maus isn't. It's a semi-immobile defense turret, so it's quite unsuitable for combat.

The Black Forest team suffers from a similar problem: they went with a heavy tank list, and they ended up sacrificing a lot of mobility and flexibility as a result. A more balanced mix of AFVs would have probably been a more challenging opponent. If we're lucky, we'll see all of the weaknesses of heavy German armor exploited in the final episode.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Someone on another forum said an Abrams' main gun would blow right through a Maus. No specific evidence was cited, but I have no real reason to doubt it. Armor, and the techniques to defeat it, have come a fair way in the last 70 years.

Point-blank the M829A1 is estimated to penetrate 670 mm (26 in) of steel armour, which decreases to 620 mm (24 in) at 1,000 m (1,100 yd) and 570 mm (22 in) at 2,000 m (2,200 yd).[3] At 4,000 m (4,400 yd) it is still believed to penetrate 460 mm (18 in) of steel armor.

...and that's two generations old at this point.

Also, this.

[willx]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Modern tank guns will penetrate anywhere from 550mm - 900mm of RHA armor. The Maus' armor will confer no defense against that kind of firepower.

While tank companies and battalions may have trouble dealing with a Maus, tank generals will have little trouble doing so. All they have to do is to attack where the Maus isn't. It's a semi-immobile defense turret, so it's quite unsuitable for combat.

The Black Forest team suffers from a similar problem: they went with a heavy tank list, and they ended up sacrificing a lot of mobility and flexibility as a result. A more balanced mix of AFVs would have probably been a more challenging opponent. If we're lucky, we'll see all of the weaknesses of heavy German armor exploited in the final episode.

Except this isn't a game about strategic territory.. If the enemy is light, you can convoy your flag tank ..

Heck, we were wondering why they didn't just make the Maus the flag tank!

[Ithekro]

Black Forest's setup seems almost idea to counter what we saw of Pravda. We don't know what five other tanks Pravda might deploy, but the likelihood would be either more of the same, or a few heavy tank destroyers of thier own to be sure against the Panthers and Tigers. Some SU100s would do with maybe two more IS-2s or IS-3s would be enough.

But Pravda probably wouldn't be expecting a Maus (no one realistically expects a Maus). And even if they did, the additions don't change as that is about the best they can do if they intend to take out the Maus rather than just try to avoid it.

[SatelliteCannon]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

Just knew...if they already know from some time ago they most likely already prepared a counter for that monster...does Russia have a counter for that monster?

Yes, actually.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by willx

Except this isn't a game about strategic territory.. If the enemy is light, you can convoy your flag tank ..

Heck, we were wondering why they didn't just make the Maus the flag tank!

If the Maus breaks down, that may be considered a game over!

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Black Forest's setup seems almost idea to counter what we saw of Pravda. We don't know what five other tanks Pravda might deploy, but the likelihood would be either more of the same, or a few heavy tank destroyers of thier own to be sure against the Panthers and Tigers. Some SU100s would do with maybe two more IS-2s or IS-3s would be enough.

But Pravda probably wouldn't be expecting a Maus. And even if they did, the additions don't change as that is about the best they can do if they intend to take out the Maus rather than just try to avoid it.

Katyusha didn't seem surprised to see the Maus, so they would have prepared for it. An SU100 would be their best bet for knocking it out. 122mm and 152mm HE rounds will probably be able to mission-kill it as well.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by SatelliteCannon

Yes, actually.

But a Object 279 is a late 1950s tank. (and not anywhere near that big really) Just a little taller than man sized while the Maus...is about two men high.

A 60 ton tank verse a 188 ton tank.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by SatelliteCannon

Yes, actually.

...I doubt that thing is tournament legal, whatever it is.

[Sumeragi]

Wait, why is that Object 279 that big? It was just slightly taller than a T-34.

[Ithekro]

I imagine they saw only images of it, and perhaps based the scale on its relatively small tracks. It is less than 9 feet tall while the Maus is over 12 feet tall.

It was designed to be cross-country tank and able to operate in a nuclear shockwave.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Not that big... the one in that manga must be on growth hormones.

Looking at the 279 on Wikipedia brought me to this... misshapen... thing.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

If the Maus breaks down, that may be considered a game over!

Katyusha didn't seem surprised to see the Maus, so they would have prepared for it. An SU100 would be their best bet for knocking it out. 122mm and 152mm HE rounds will probably be able to mission-kill it as well.

Since we are also allowing things that didn't quite make it into the war, the "not used in war" 152mm BR-540 HEAT (250mm) can be used. They can also throw in a JSU-152BM (prototype 1944) with long barreled 152mm gun (AP 203mm at 2000m) - who cares about the gun's limited life, or the difficulty of maneuvering such a long-nosed Self-Propelled Installation (two reasons it was rejected, but they might change their tone if Maus rolled onto the field...)

[aldw]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

IMHO, in a sense it is this kind of "realistic, done-their-homework fiction" that is the most dangerous. You know (or at least think) they did their work, so you are inclined to trust them as if the data they provide is real. And a lot of it may well be. But if they decide to "tweak" something for story purposes, well, you'll be the last to know because it is so realistic the new curve looks just as natural as the real one and your BS filters don't work.

I just said to be careful, that's all.

The main compiler for the penetration tables there actually has original copies of the US Army testing data (upon other things), plus having been in their related discussions in the past I do know where any such modifications would apply (which were specifically for the Draka hardware, not on OTL stuff). That whole scenario was created after all from the idea of a IS-7 vs a Hond VI...

[Ithekro]

One thing I heard about that was the quality differences between American steel and German steel. We tested the guns for the Sherman against American steel and found the penetration qualities to be enough to penetrate the proper thickness of steel for the German tanks. The problem is, the German steel is harder than American steel. The same thickness of German steel stopped the American shells.

[Panzerklein]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

Not that big... the one in that manga must be on growth hormones.

Looking at the 279 on Wikipedia brought me to this... misshapen... thing.

That why I don't like that manga, the tanks are drawed scrappy and wrong scale. Object 279 only weight 60 tons and 2,6m height while Maus is 3.6m height.

BTW, There are Soviet Super Heavy Tanks in the war but ineffect, slow and easy target for German aircraft

Spoiler for KV-VI:

[whitecloud]

Nazi super-science....?.hahaha (don't mind me...just watch jojo)

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Someone had fun with their 3D modeler, I see.

On a practical note, that thing needs articulated sections, or it'll have a turning radius of about a kilometer, and breaking a track on that thing would be the most colossal PITA ever.

Or, y'know, you could keep it as three separate tanks.

[arkhangelsk]

But this is a game, not war, and it allows only 20 tanks, so you might as well join as many components together as possible and insist it is still one tank

[Ithekro]

Definately could not turn in place.

(The real KV-6 was a flamethrower tank if I recall correctly).

[SatelliteCannon]

Originally Posted by Panzerklein

BTW, There are Soviet Super Heavy Tanks in the war but ineffect, slow and easy target for German aircraft.

Yea, I thought that thing didn't even exist on paper. I think the source of that was either a modeller's kitbash or a modified photo of three T-28s in column.

On the other hand, this is the nation that designed and built things like the T-35 (it has 5 turrets and 11 crew) and the Tsar Tank.

Originally Posted by Panzerklein

That why I don't like that manga, the tanks are drawed scrappy and wrong scale. Object 279 only weight 60 tons and 2,6m height while Maus is 3.6m height.

It's true that Girls und Panzer does the whole "tank combat sport + female cast" thing better that Sailor Fuku and Heavy Tanks. Still, I can't help but stick up for the manga, because I sincerely believe that without that manga, we would not have Girls und Panzer today.