[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

Plus whatever you get in ep7... I mean, soon you'd be able to do a ceremony using only Beatrices.

That might, actually, be an appropriate way to get a happy ending.

[CainSonozaki]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

Yeah, but... I mean

Beato (Meta Beatrice)
Dress-Beatrice
Suit-Beatrice
Beatrice 2 ("The human")
Beatrice 1 (The original human?)
Virgilia ("Predecessor Beatrice")
Moetrice
Beatrice the elder
EVA-Beatrice
ANGE-Beatrice
MARIA-Beatrice
Beatrice reborn

Plus whatever you get in ep7... I mean, soon you'd be able to do a ceremony using only Beatrices.

MARIA is not a Beatrice

[Steampunk Librarian]

After doing some more snooping, I was wondering

Spoiler for Battler's Sin:

Is it possible that Battler's sin is coming back to the family after being away for so long? It sounds sort of silly, but it might have something to do with both the bomb and the promise in a similar way.

Battler breaks his promise, but the person eventually gets over it and goes on with their life. If this person is Shannon like a lot of people claim, then she moves on to be with George since Battler is gone. Seeing him again would open all those wounds up and cause suffering. This is the sin most people seem to talk about.

The other part of the sin, however, is with him there, all members of the Ushiromiyas are present except for Ange. Maybe the culprit w/ the bomb needs all of them + Battler to be present in order for whatever their motive is to be fulfilled, but that motive doesn't involve killing Ange (or killing her right away?). This would seem to support that Kyrie is the mastermind, assuming that she wants the entire family dead.

See, they would all need to be present, because almost all of them are either old enough or going to be old enough to inherent the family name. An issue is whether or not Maria would show up, since if the plot I'm talking about is to give the family name/inheritance to Ange/someone, then if she didn't show up, she would be the next in line, if I am not mistaken.

If Battler's Sin is coming to the island, and Beatrice is there to tell him of this sin to somehow (maybe) save him, then the solution would be for him not to come to the island? If Kinzo is dead at the beginning of all games (games where Battler does decide to come to the island), assuming it wasn't a last minute decision, he could still decide not to come to the island, which keeps the person's promise he broke in line and prevents the culprit from killing the entirety of the Ushiromiya family.

Sorry. Ever since getting W7 on, I can't install anymore Uminekos because I don't have the Japanese language pack and can't get that pack either . I want to know what is going on so badly. lol

[Leafsnail]

Originally Posted by CainSonozaki

MARIA is not a Beatrice

ANGE isn't either, as it turns out, although she is an endless witch. Eh.

[UsagiTenpura]

Ange is Ange Beatrice, Maria is not Maria Beatrice, and ever is.

[Winar]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

Yeah, but... I mean

Beato (Meta Beatrice)
Dress-Beatrice
Suit-Beatrice
Beatrice 2 ("The human")
Beatrice 1 (The original human?)
Virgilia ("Predecessor Beatrice")
Moetrice
Beatrice the elder
EVA-Beatrice
ANGE-Beatrice
MARIA-Beatrice
Beatrice reborn

Plus whatever you get in ep7... I mean, soon you'd be able to do a ceremony using only Beatrices.

Hmp...

Beatrice-1 = Beato's part = Kinzo first love
Beatrice-2 = Beato's part = Asumu\Rosa\real human form = Illusion of the Golden Witch
Beatrice-3 (in suit, but can changing to dress, mysterious visitor of Rokkenjima ) = Rosa\Jessica\Shannon\Rion\Child from 19 years ago\Beatrice-2
Beato-doll = Beato's half\Beatrice-1
First Endless witch
Previous Beatrice, Virgilia
Eva-Beatrice
Ange-Beatrice
Beatrice the elder = Beatrice-3 without memories
BetoBeato (reborn) = Beatrice-2 without memories

Im confused, we saw 2 Beatos: one (meta) in dress, other (human form) in suit (but can change to dress, too) and 3 titles of Beatrice. So Rosa history fake or like mine theory Beato=Beatrice-1+Beatrice-2.

[Leafsnail]

Beatrice-1 would be Virgilia's human counterpart. I mean, the whole homunculus thing and the scene where Virgilia magics the vase for Beatrice sortof seems to imply it.

[J the Drafter]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

Beatrice-1 would be Virgilia's human counterpart. I mean, the whole homunculus thing and the scene where Virgilia magics the vase for Beatrice sortof seems to imply it.

Beatrice-1 is Kumasawa, then? Going with what we've heard about Bice Castiglioni, that doesn't seem to work. (I think; I haven't yet read the Ep. in question.)

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by J the Drafter

Beatrice-1 is Kumasawa, then? Going with what we've heard about Bice Castiglioni, that doesn't seem to work. (I think; I haven't yet read the Ep. in question.)

What would be closest to the truth for now would be ->

Beatrice#1 -> Beatrice Castiglioni
Beatrice#2 -> Beatrice Castiglioni's and Ushiromiya Kinzo's daughter/ Rosa's Beatrice
Beatrice#3 -> Beatrice#2's and Ushiromiya Kinzo's daughter/ Yasu-Shannon-Lion
Former Beatrice/Vargilia -> Kumasawa in the eyes of Beatrice#3
姉-Beato -> The prankpulling personality of Yasu after the portrait is installed
雛-Beato -> The personality of Yasu after he learned about the former Beatrice (??)
Meta-Beatrice -> The combination of all of Yasu's personalities
Gaap-Beatrice -> Yasu's idea of Beatrice as an excuse for his/her incompetence
Kureru -> Yasu's first concept of his magical self as the witch Beatrice

The question remains why there appears a short-skirt Beatrice in one scenario and a gown wearing one in another.

[Renall]

Meta-Beatrice presumably has many, many other influences than a single person's. The way she signs her name and claims of being Italian seem to draw on Beatrice-1's... if any of those people exist.

[Pikumin]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

What would be closest to the truth for now would be ->

Beatrice#1 -> Beatrice Castiglioni
Beatrice#2 -> Beatrice Castiglioni's and Ushiromiya Kinzo's daughter/ Rosa's Beatrice
Beatrice#3 -> Beatrice#2's and Ushiromiya Kinzo's daughter/ Yasu-Shannon-Lion
Former Beatrice/Vargilia -> Kumasawa in the eyes of Beatrice#3
姉-Beato -> The prankpulling personality of Yasu after the portrait is installed
雛-Beato -> The personality of Yasu after he learned about the former Beatrice (??)
Meta-Beatrice -> The combination of all of Yasu's personalities
Gaap-Beatrice -> Yasu's idea of Beatrice as an excuse for his/her incompetence
Kureru -> Yasu's first concept of his magical self as the witch Beatrice

Which is the young beatrice in the flashback at the start of ep 3? That incident with the vase happens in Kuwadorian. Virgilia calls her ojou-sama, so she must be in quite a high position. If she is beatrice#3/Yasu-Shannon-Lion, why would she be a servant later on?

Also, the Beatrice Rosa apparently met seemed too innocent, its hard to believe she had a child.

[Judoh]

Spoiler for answer EP6:

It would actually be a funny twist if Amakusa didn't kill anyone at all! I would laugh so hard if that didn't really happen, but it's implied with his call from Okonogi in the tea party that he did in fact kill those people by sniping them. Although not everyone wants to believe he killed Ange.

[m0h]

Originally Posted by Renall

Meta-Beatrice presumably has many, many other influences than a single person's. The way she signs her name and claims of being Italian seem to draw on Beatrice-1's... if any of those people exist.

Not to mention that ( and here this point can be highly doubted ) the contract page of Mariage Sorciere in Maria's grimoire in the anime is written in italian.

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

I don't know how accurate this is, but someone (TehChron I believe) here said that there are hints in the anime that are not mentioned in the VN. Not trying to copy but it gave me the idea that maybe the Italian was on PURPOSE. Not really sure since I haven't seen any of Ryuukishi's INTERVIEWS. I just thought I should mention IT.

[LyricalAura]

Has the EP4 manga reached that scene yet? That would be the best way to cross-check.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Dlanor .A. Nox

I don't know how accurate this is, but someone (TehChron I believe) here said that there are hints in the anime that are not mentioned in the VN. Not trying to copy but it gave me the idea that maybe the Italian was on PURPOSE. Not really sure since I haven't seen any of Ryuukishi's INTERVIEWS. I just thought I should mention IT.

Spoiler:

One specific example I can think of is in relation to Episode 4 where we see Sakutarou in the Boat Pilots futon shop in the anime's episode 23. At around Seven minutes in, we see a very Sakutarou-esque bundle stuffed into a plastic bag that Ange takes direct notice of, and considers it to be proof of magic.

Not to mention that in the anime's episode 25 it depicts the cliff that Ange is standing on when doing her monologue as being vaguely crater-esque.

There's probably other details that I havn't noticed.

But if there's some kind of potentially game changing scene or imagery depicted in the anime but not shown in the VNs, then it's pretty reasonable to assume that Ryukishi gave it his approval to go ahead. He did say that he reviewed the various scripts for the anime episodes in order to give them his go ahead beforehand. He even cites the Episode 1 scripts in that one interview directly.

Spoiler:

Which bring up the issue of why did Battler shoot the magic butterfly in the anime. And why did it regenerate in his full view? What does that mean?

[UsagiTenpura]

Well generally speaking the thing is that when we follow a novel we follow the details the narration centers on. When having a much more visual media such as manga or anime we, the reader/viewer, can decide what we concentrate our attention on.

No matter if you read the VN 80 times, you will never be able to check the most minimal detail that didn't get X character we were following's attention.

The buttlerfly doesn't mean anything. Notice that whenever Battler start seeing anything crazy, it's always midnight or around so enough that we don't know if it's yet midnight or not.

Arc 1 the butterflies appear as midnight rings.
Arc 2 when Genji gets Battler to go to Kinzo's study it's like 5 mins from midnight.
Arc 4 is actually the first day! But it's the same thing. Exactly when midnight rings is the second he first sees Beatrice.
- Might be wrong - but I heard that Kyrie and Eva and cie doesn't start mass slaughtering each other until midnight rings in arc 7.

Why is that? many possibilities, but overall I'd say the most likely is that Rokkenjima explosion accident occurs and whatever follows is a fantasy scene, no matter how realistic it can be or not.

Edit: Alternative theory, because the gameboard only contains 2 days, so whenever you basically go past that you "leave the gameboard's limit" and so the rules don't have to be respected anymore by the gamemaster.

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

The manga has indeed reached that POINT. Sadly the signing page was unreadable...only their names WERE.

[DgBarca]

There is also an extra tip in the anime...
When Maria get Sakutarou...there is a flag on one of the cake, this flag looks a bit like the flag of Iceland.
The same that are wearing the Siestas.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by DgBarca

There is also an extra tip in the anime...
When Maria get Sakutarou...there is a flag on one of the cake, this flag looks a bit like the flag of Iceland.
The same that are wearing the Siestas.

That's not so unusual and it probably doesn't mean much. There are flags they put on meals in Japan apparently. In Matsuribayashi Young Takano collected flags from kids meals before all the really bad stuff happened to her. Hm actually I remember that she mentions them to Irie as an adult too.