sola - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[felix]

Originally Posted by xat

Aono touches upon exactly what I was concerned with. I feel this show is moving a bit too fast - it feels very shallow for Yorito to reach such a resolve so quickly, when he [felt like he] was completely normal during the former portion of the show. Good episode, but the I'm losing favour in the characters.

Yes the series has become quite predictable ~ good presentation but the details are failing. I have nothing against using hax in scenes, I'm bored stiff of all this realism in some shows. My quarrel is with the sub-story bits, as you put it, they are quite shallow, not like the main thread is far from the same definition. e.g.

Spoiler for What-I-Thought-Would-Happen:

I'm happy I was close, but it also feels wrong.

---

Originally Posted by Cats

I think Matsuri's going to stabs Aono ~ whatever the reason may be.

As for the rest, I'm expecting some "Oh, but you know this and this happened then." moments.
In other words some deus ex plot machinas.

Originally Posted by Mez

where's she getting all that paper from, that's alot of trees

That's not real paper, it's spiritual-paper~
But I guess you were just joking with that comment.

[xat]

I'm going to have to disagree with you a bit there. The series remains (for me) to be rather unpredictable. There's certain points that can be gotten to by reasoning (i.e. Matsuri learning to use the sword -> confronting Aono), but part of sola's charm is in its twists, and those are very hard to reasonably predict.

No, my concern goes something more like this: During the former portion of the show, Yorito is presented to be a weird yet very human character. He's your usual teen except he's got an obsession with the sky. As far as he knows, his sister is sick and visiting her periodically is only the RightThingToDo. I wouldn't hesitate to admit that his compassion for her at the time is derived from the memories she placed within him, but we already know that Aono doesn't quite have control over how his feelings evolve. It's his human-like nature that allowed him to become such good friends with Mana, come to love Matsuri, and even [eventually] neglect Aono (note: I'm referring to the night he left her to search for Matsuri).

That's fine. That's the image of Yorito we're presented with for most of the series. Where it goes wrong for me is when Yorito discovers the truth about himself. Granted, even before then his stance toward his sister was already changing. He knew something was very wrong with himself after the night he stabbed Matsuri, and, through Mana, he knew it definitely had to do with Aono. From here, all it took was a single episode for Yorito's resolve to change drastically. So much so that he's able to shaft Mana and decide that being Yorito, for him, is no longer acceptable. I don't buy it; it tosses his human-like nature out the window.

When I say Aono touches upon exactly what I was concerned about, I'm referring to when she questions his motive. Knowing the truth, suddenly being who he was is no longer a possibility. Somehow, though, he thinks it's acceptable and even necessary for him to revert to his true form (正しい姿 -- it was translated differently in the subs, but the meaning is the same). It seems to me that he still has a strong connection with Aono at this point (note that he still calls her Nee-san), and yet I'm surprised this connection isn't even stronger. It's clear that she trusts him a lot. His point about her having control over him, to the point in which she's able to control what he remembers, is valid but holds little meaning to me. He didn't consider that she's let him off from that on every occasion following the night he stabbed Matsuri.

Not only that, she remade him, and painstakingly so. Rather than accepting and adapting to this, he's convinced it's all wrong. He's convinced that somehow ceasing to be is the better resolve, and that undoing Aono's labor is acceptable. For this to kind of resolve to be reached within such a short time frame, when he still has so much to lose, feels forced to me, and this is where the shallowness comes from.

I have a similar stance on Matsuri, particularly after this episode. Need to collect my thoughts before I go into detail on that one though.

[stonedzombie]

so, that

Spoiler:

vacant lot was their house right?

and also

Spoiler:

something else I just thought of. Since Yorito and Matsuri had a past history together, did she know who he was when they met in ep 1? Didn't really seem like it. Had she forgotten? Or was she pretending that she didn't know who he was when she really did? hmmmmm

[Nemesis2124]

Originally Posted by stonedzombie

Spoiler:

something else I just thought of. Since Yorito and Matsuri had a past history together, did she know who he was when they met in ep 1? Didn't really seem like it. Had she forgotten? Or was she pretending that she didn't know who he was when she really did? hmmmmm

Presumably, her memory of him was a bit hazy after such a long time. While she probably noticed the resemblance, I don't think it really started to hit home until she heard his name (she has a rather blatant reaction.) But even then, it was probably brushed off as a coincidence till episode 6.

[Julius Firefocht]

I supported Aono all the way. Working towards a dream and fulfilling it, no matter how painful and much labour it takes, that is to be respected.

By now it is obvious Aono is some sort of master tactician and micro manager. She was consistently multi-tasking throughout this episode.

Anyway, this is one of the most action packed episode I have yet seen. Now, I eagerly await the finale.

[TigerII]

And it seems the comment I made after the first episode(Way back when Sola was a single thread in Fansubbed is going to come true. Tragic storyline. Even if somehow Yorito and Matsuri can live and she can be with paper...Aono will still probably die.

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by xat

[...]
That's fine. That's the image of Yorito we're presented with for most of the series. Where it goes wrong for me is when Yorito discovers the truth about himself. Granted, even before then his stance toward his sister was already changing. He knew something was very wrong with himself after the night he stabbed Matsuri, and, through Mana, he knew it definitely had to do with Aono. From here, all it took was a single episode for Yorito's resolve to change drastically. So much so that he's able to shaft Mana and decide that being Yorito, for him, is no longer acceptable. I don't buy it; it tosses his human-like nature out the window.
[...]
I have a similar stance on Matsuri, particularly after this episode.
[...]

I think that's the reason why I'm slowly caring less and less for the characters. In the beginning of the series it was all about their quiet interaction which I really liked. But reaching such an absurd resolve so easily after what, a day or two? That's not just forced, it's way out of character. Yorito and Matsuri both (especially Yorito) have basically stopped being themselves somewhere in episode 11. At least that's how it felt to me and with such a show where caring about the characters is the most important factor of enjoyment it basically kills the anime.

Btw: Does anyone else here think it would've been a nice idea to have Yorito really disappear in episode 11? After the scene on the roof with Mana he just shouldn't have appeared again before Matsuri and she would've been left alone to sort things out with Aono somehow.^^

[Icerack]

I think it was the intent of Matsuri to sort it out with Aono alone, but Aono decieved Matsuri into fighting a clone of herself giving her the opportunity to locate where Yorito really is. Otherwise, if Matsuri's plan was successful, Yorito probably wouldn't have reappeared.

I'm not sure if the decision to turn Aono back to human is a wise one. Once she becomes human and both Matsuri and Yorito disappears, either Aono will probably just suicide again. Obviously the only way to make Aono happy is to keep Yorito around and ditch Matsuri. I think their lives would've probably been better if Matsuri just never appeared int he first place. Then their lives would've gone on as normal teenagers and things would've probably worked out (until all their friends get old). I think this kind of a conclusion just sucks for everyone involved: Mana and Koyori loses their good friends, Matsuri and Yorito disappear into thin air, Aono gets reverted back to human against her will. Atleast, Takeshi and Mayuko seemed to have gotten their happy ending.

[TigerII]

Tragedies do suck^^. But as you said its not a complete tragedy. Some have a happy ending(..sort of).

[Nifft]

There are a few things that lead me to hope Ep.13 will surprise me:

1/ Yorigami's paper control + the surprised look on Aono's face. She didn't think he was able to rip his own arm off (to partially revert to paper). I think he has become an entity independant of her.

2/ Mayoko is returning to town. She's the foreshadowed deus ex machina, so let's assume there will be a surprise one, too.

3/ IMHO Aono only looked hax compared to Matsuri because the latter had just spent a lot of her yaka-juice erasing everyone's memories. Animating two paper-clones must have taken some power out of Aono, so presumably they'll be on more equal footing if the fighting begins again... assuming Matsuri is alive at the start of Ep.13, of course.

-- N

[stonedzombie]

Originally Posted by Icerack

I think it was the intent of Matsuri to sort it out with Aono alone, but Aono decieved Matsuri into fighting a clone of herself giving her the opportunity to locate where Yorito really is. Otherwise, if Matsuri's plan was successful, Yorito probably wouldn't have reappeared.

I'm not sure if the decision to turn Aono back to human is a wise one. Once she becomes human and both Matsuri and Yorito disappears, either Aono will probably just suicide again. Obviously the only way to make Aono happy is to keep Yorito around and ditch Matsuri. I think their lives would've probably been better if Matsuri just never appeared int he first place. Then their lives would've gone on as normal teenagers and things would've probably worked out (until all their friends get old). I think this kind of a conclusion just sucks for everyone involved: Mana and Koyori loses their good friends, Matsuri and Yorito disappear into thin air, Aono gets reverted back to human against her will. Atleast, Takeshi and Mayuko seemed to have gotten their happy ending.

For the most part, I really agree with you. The latter part of this series has been COMPLETELY different then the first 3/4. I mean, I totally expected a romance drama and a "love that cannot be" between Matsuri and Yorito and Aono would be thrown in there as the jealous girl. For the most part, thats what this seris has been. All of that changed the moment Yorito stabbed Matsuri. Then, things got waaaay CRAZY. Yorito is oragami? He was just an illusion? The house, the relationships with their friends, all fake? Matsuri and Yorito deciding almost INSTANLY that him and Matsuri should kill themselves? It does really feel that these characters are not the same ones we witnessed for most of the series. They just seem soooo out of character at this point, and just not themselves. And for that, I too dont care for the characters as much as I did before (not a fan of paper). But even though I have mixed feelings about the curveballs being thrown at us lately, the series has yet to not keep me on the edge of my seat, begging for the next episode. Its still awesome.......just, different now.

[Whitemoon648]

WoW, what a cliffhanger. Does any one know what does that song at the end of episode?. Doremei version is what i am talking about.

[Kyuusai]

I enjoyed the episode despite its continued departure from the charming character interactions that drew me into the series.

Commentary:
- Something that bothered me about this episode is that Matsuri spent so much time attacking Aono before she begain her "process". So, what was her plan... to incapacitate Aono before returning her humanity? Sure, that makes sense. Wait, no it doesn't! It might have made sense if Matsuri had first intended merely to kill Aono and then changed her mind, but that wasn't the case.
- The projector starting on its own was kind of unbelievable, and a bit cheap. But the result was beautiful. Just before the still scene ended, I wondered how long it would go on, and realized that it could last a good bit longer and I wouldn't mind. Art.
- Aono: HAX. So she doesn't just manipulate paper... she makes it, too? And makes equally strong clones out of paper in the blink of an eye. Too much!
- Aono's a master tactician, apparently. Matsuri is... apparently not. While I can understand their different mindsets leading to different levels of craftiness, it's kind of ridiculous for Matsuri to go to the trouble of leading Aono all that way and then not have any sort of better plan or trap set up.
- When Aono flew through the wall, I had one thought in my mind: "Gyafun!!" I felt kind of bad for letting my mind drift in an MST3K kind of way.
- When did Yorito gain super-strength? He ripped his own arm off and is holding Aono down. ...How?!
- Several of us were right: Aono has been trying this process for a long time. Since super-powered clones are apparently no problem, I suppose the hard part for Aono was imprinting the memories into Yorito?
- There's one episode to go and a lot that could happen. I'm betting on an ending that would be a surprise considering the present events, but I guess a surprise ending isn't much of a surprise. I hope it's happy for all the characters, and I hope it provides some resolution for Mayuko. We STILL don't know what Original-Yorito's solution was for Matsuri to be able to see the sky...

[Nemesis2124]

Now that you mention it, the last big secret definitely seems like the most interesting one. Off the top of my head, I really have a hard time coming up with anything viable. However, given the allotted time left, I'm expecting the solution to be something very subtle; something that's been lurking right under our noses for a while. Either way, I fully expect the show to be rubbing it's craftiness in our faces next week.

EDIT: Just got an idea, actually. Given the themes floating around in episode 12, it would be kind of neat if the "burning in the sun" deal is some sort of metaphor for the "pain of living" or something like that. In which case, basking in it and letting it burn could be the answer.

[Ascaloth]

Watched the Doremi fansub of Sola Ep12, and as usual, I don't give a hoot about spoiler tags. The subs are out, so there's no place for them any more.

Moving on, this is a pretty fitting ending to all the trouble, but like some others have observed, Matsuri and Yorito have changed way too much from what they were at the beginning. Character development is one thing, but turning into different people altogether is something else altogether. I joined the Sola bandwagon because of the cute interaction between Matsuri and Yorito, yet it's become almost nonexistent at the end of this series. The few minutes of them pretending to be at the cinema just isn't enough.

Nice fighting scenes all the way, but Aono's power-levelling has become too much. I mean, the house being a paper dollhouse is okay, but two clones and manipulating so much of the terrain via remote control?! Like some people said, HAX, and it's pretty depressing to see Matsuri getting beat around all the time again. Not as much as I thought it would be, however, since I'm not feeling as much love for Matsuri as I used to. She's changed too much for that.

Not to mention Matsuri's continuing display of a relative lack of any intelligence whatsoever. Seriously, hasn't she learned by her first fight with Aono by now? Takeshi's sword is well and all, but she should have been at least smart enough to procure Takeshi's supply of light darts as well. Brainless. >_<

And the sparce flashback scenes still don't provide enough of a background; at this point in the series, it's far too late for that, now. They should have given the full story on what happened in the past in a continuous segment, like AIR (TV) did with the Summer Arc; as it is, we don't really get enough treatment with the plight of the characters during the feudal era, to empathize with their motivations in the present day.

With all that said and all, I'm giving this episode a 7. It has its nice bits (projector showing the sky, nice little intimate scene between Sola-baka and Matsuri at the beginning, otherwise decent fighting scenes), but there are just too many negatives to give it a higher score. And 7 is most likely the score I'll give the Sola series as a whole in my Final Critique, too; it might well become a series that I'll throw into the "Needs a 2-cour KyoAni remake" category.



And my predictions for Episode 13?

Morimiya Aono is a regular girl. She lives in a large house (with her parents/alone, because her parents are away on business), and her hobbies include taking photos of the sky, and collecting weird dolls. She goes to school with her best friend Ishizuki Mana, and teaches the art of origami to the latter's imouto Koyori. We see some funny scenes, including the infamous Koyori head-chop for whatever reasons. As far as she knows, she's just a normal teenage girl; but she has no memories of who she was, nor of Yorito or Matsuri. And she's happy the way she is.

In the end, as the sun is setting, Aono returns home. In the distance, we see a young couple who looks strangely familiar......




EDIT: Wow. A gutter-voting silent troll aside, I'm the lowest voter of this episode.

[xat]

In the end I think the shortcomings I'm perceiving in sola are due to a common problem with shows like this: it's not long enough. I have a feeling I would like this show much more if it were longer, and thus the turning points were a bit more gradual.

[Skane]

I'm actually in disagreement with a lot of the negative points mentioned in this thread (and confounded by some of the disappointments), but I will hold back my thoughts until I have catch up with my write-ups for Ep10-11.

Cheers.

[Mirrinus]

Well now, I finally caught up with this show (which I began...earlier today). Since origami is listed under my interests, you can bet any papermastery battles will make me giddy. Still, I must say, the main triangle of characters are rather getting on my nerves still. Why must they all believe that the solution to every problem is either murder or suicide? I think the show peaked in episode 9 with the story of Takeshi and Mayuko. At least Mayuko had the brains to realize that the death of anyone would still bring pain to the others.

At this rate, I can see some possibilities:

1. No one dies in the end. If so, this would feel like a total cop-out. I'm very much hoping that this is not the case. Yes, I do think all the fighting and killing in the last arc is kinda pointless and ill thought out, but since the writers have already dug themselves into this hole, they have to keep going with it.

2. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito lives by some deux ex machina, and the girl who survives ends up with him. However, since someone had to die to bring this about, I think any relationship that can be forged will be tainted.

3. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito dies as well. Whichever girl survives will of course be burdened with immense guilt. I'm hoping she doesn't commit suicide, as that will only prove how stupid everyone is acting right now anyway.

4. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito lives by some deux ex machina, and the girl who survives ends up with him. Except this time, whichever girl survives gets memory wiped, and lives a normal life with Mana and Koyori. Somewhat happy ending...but memory wipes totally cheapen all the relationships that have been built up. I'd feel rather cheated with such an ending myself.

5. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito dies as well. Whichever girl survives gets memory wiped and lives a normal life with Mana and Koyori. See above for what I think of memory wipes.

6. All 3 die in some epic and angsty battle, Mana and Koyori live happily ever after and maybe befriend Mayuko and Takeshi. This is actually the ending I'm rooting for. But who am I kidding, I'll take any ending that features ample Mayuko and Takeshi.

So yeah, I'm somewhat disappointed with the whole Yorito/Matsuri/Aono dynamic, despite the presence of paper-related weaponry. I blame Yorito, who makes me want to punch him in the face. Sakai Yuuji of SnS handled the revelation of his being dead way better than Yorito did, and Yuuji is nowhere near my list of favorite male leads. But Takeshi and Mayuko are pure <3, so I will continue with the last episode just to see what happens to them.

[FreedomMS]

i was curious about the video of Sora .Who made that video.It can't be the present yorito as he was shock as well..do u think is the past yorito who make that???

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by FreedomMS

i was curious about the video of Sora .Who made that video.It can't be the present yorito as he was shock as well..do u think is the past yorito who make that???

First of all considering that i'm sure the yorito in the past lived in an era without any sort of recording device whatsoever, there would be no chance that this sky was recorded by the old Yorito.... I somehow get this feeling that the film of the sky was just placed there to add fuel to the already dramatic scene....

By the way considering that there would be 2 dvd exclusives i'm thinking maybe they won't all die.... That's if the show will be continued in the 2 exclusive eps...

Although i have a feeling that the dvd specials will be just random comedic acts....