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DarkLordOfkichiku · 2008-06-25, 15:49

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Originally Posted by orrick alexander

A- Kallen is brainwashed and returns to the order of the black knights and acts as a spy. B- Kallen is brainwashed and acts as a loyal solider for Britannia and is under Suzaku's charge.

Probably not A if that happens, because as you say, the possiiblity of her escapign herself WITH the guren to boot is rather unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orrick alexander

Sorry guys I was going with the lelouch x Kallen thing there for a while, but it just doesn't look it is going to have that outcome.

so you don't beleive that she might possibly recover her memory?

Aquaman OS · 2008-06-25, 15:50

It's much easier to break out one person than a hundred. Lelouch could Geass his way into wherever she's held and sneak her out without getting noticed. You'd notice a hundred people leaving, two however might be able to leave undetected.

As I pointed out in the spoilers thread Geassing her into the Britannian knights would require Geassing not only Kallen, but just about the entire army except Suzaku in order for a known enemy to join their ranks without looking suspicious. And Geass is supposed to be a secret with Britannia too. Why go through all that trouble? They don't need her and neither the Emperor or Suzaku are spiteful enough to Geass her just to piss off Lelouch. The Emperor hasn't directly interfered before, why would he now.

And if Suzaku really wanted her Geassed, he'd have her Geassed to forget about the Order and return to her civilian life. He didn't think war suited her after all. He didn't want her on his side, he just wanted her out of the battle.

bladeofdarkness · 2008-06-25, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

It's much easier to break out one person than a hundred. Lelouch could Geass his way into wherever she's held and sneak her out without getting noticed. You'd notice a hundred people leaving, two however might be able to leave undetected.

As I pointed out in the spoilers thread Geassing her into the Britannian knights would require Geassing not only Kallen, but just about the entire army except Suzaku in order for a known enemy to join their ranks without looking suspicious. And Geass is supposed to be a secret with Britannia too. Why go through all that trouble? They don't need her and neither the Emperor or Suzaku are spiteful enough to Geass her just to piss off Lelouch. The Emperor hasn't directly interfered before, why would he now.

And if Suzaku really wanted her Geassed, he'd have her Geassed to forget about the Order and return to her civilian life. He didn't think war suited her after all. He didn't want her on his side, he just wanted her out of the battle.

but that was the last season suzaku
this time its "no more mister nice guy" suzaku who doesnt seem to mind using even nanali as a tool to find out if lulu is zero

Aquaman OS · 2008-06-25, 16:01

He's still not evil or malicous. The Nunnally thing was a desperate last resort to see if Lelouch had awakened. He didn't exactly look thrilled about it. If he was just trying to hurt Lelouch he would have had a Light Yagami-ish "just as planned" evil grin, which he did not.

Suzaku wouldn't have Kallen turned against the Order just to be mean. None of the main characters in Geass stoop to that kind of baby eating pointless evil (except maybe Mao)

And like I said pulling that off will require Geassing tons on people. You can't just put a known enemy in your ranks and expect nobody to suspect anything.

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2008-06-25, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

As I pointed out in the spoilers thread Geassing her into the Britannian knights would require Geassing not only Kallen, but just about the entire army except Suzaku in order for a known enemy to join their ranks without looking suspicious.

Suzaku'd probably come up with something along the lines of that she had "seen the error of her ways as a Britannian" and/or "wished to atone for her crimes by fightning for the glory of Britannia". Whether they'd be suspicious or not would not matter. They would only have to follow Suzaku's orders of letting her fight for them...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

And Geass is supposed to be a secret with Britannia too. Why go through all that trouble? They don't need her and neither the Emperor or Suzaku are spiteful enough to Geass her just to piss off Lelouch.

An extra triump card is always useful to have...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

The Emperor hasn't directly interfered before, why would he now.

It wouldn't exactly be him directly interfering - it'd just be Suzaku asking him for a favor...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

And if Suzaku really wanted her Geassed, he'd have her Geassed to forget about the Order and return to her civilian life. He didn't think war suited her after all. He didn't want her on his side, he just wanted her out of the battle.

Well, if she's geassed, then I hope this is it at least, as it's the lesser evil of the two - if Suzaku gets her geassed her into continue fightning and fightning her friends and allies on top of that, for a cause she doesn't believe nor wish to fight for - then he'll really be an a-hole

hanseo · 2008-06-25, 16:11

this is war people suzaku will use kallen how he sees fit suzaku and kallen are not friends

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2008-06-25, 16:23

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Originally Posted by hanseo

this is war people suzaku will use kallen how he sees fit suzaku and kallen are not friends

They might not be, no - but Suzaku thinks of those left in the student council as his friends and they value Kallen as a friend, so if only for their sake, he really shouldn't be using her that way.

Aquaman OS · 2008-06-25, 16:25

They are friends actually in the same kind of odd twisted friendship Lelouch and Suzaku had in that they liked each other and even somewhat want the same thing but are on different sides.

Suzaku gets no pleasure from either using Nunnally or Kallen. In both cases he had the blank sad look of "I can't believe we've come to this" rather than the enjoyment of hurting Lelouch like people claim he has.

Using the arguement of "this is war" doesn't work because really nobody acts like that in Geass. If they did Lelouch would have Geassed Suzaku into service or killed him when he had the chance. Suzaku would have killed Lelouch at the finale, or as soon as he came back to Ashford killed Lelouch then even if he didn't regain his memory just to be safe. Suzaku would have killed the whole crowd in 8 because it wouldn't have mattered what Nunnally or Euphie wanted cause it was war. Neither of them act like this, and its unlikely to change because frankly normal war is boring and has no drama. You want to see realistic war go join the army.

Geassing Kallen to fight for Britannian is both un needed and too much of a risk. It would be safer to just kill her or keep her locked away if they wanted the advantage. At any rate she's Schinizel's prisoner now. If anything she'll end up in Code R rather than Geassed.

Rising Dragon · 2008-06-25, 16:26

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Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

They might not be, no - but Suzaku thinks of those left in the student council as his friends and they value Kallen as a friend, so if only for their sake, he really shouldn't be using her that way.

I'm curious as to what Suzaku would think if he learned that Zero Lelouch still considers Suzaku as a friend. I'm also curious as to what Nina will do if she finds out that Euphy's killer is none other than Lelouch.

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2008-06-25, 16:29

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I'm curious as to what Suzaku would think if he learned that Zero Lelouch still considers Suzaku as a friend..

He might be surpised, but that's about it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I'm also curious as to what Nina will do if she finds out that Euphy's killer is none other than Lelouch.

She'd be shocked, but I don't think she'd care either way - she'd just want to kill him regardless

hanseo · 2008-06-25, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

They might not be, no - but Suzaku thinks of those left in the student council as his friends and they value Kallen as a friend, so if only for their sake, he really shouldn't be using her that way.

he could ignore the student council feelings about kallen

Rising Dragon · 2008-06-25, 16:31

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Originally Posted by hanseo

he could ignore the student council feelings about kallen

Why would he though?

bladeofdarkness · 2008-06-25, 16:35

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Why would he though?

he didnt mind them being memory wiped

Rising Dragon · 2008-06-25, 16:36

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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

he didnt mind them being memory wiped

Its not a memory "wipe". If it was, they'd have NO memories. They were rewritten. Everyone, get that through your heads. As for you, blade, you don't know what his feelings on that are.

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2008-06-25, 16:42

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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

At any rate she's Schinizel's prisoner now. If anything she'll end up in Code R rather than Geassed.

Schneizel isn't the one in charge of that though as far as we know (he seemed quite clueless about the whole subject as such) and the guy that seems to be in charge of it, Bartley Asprius, seems to be busy with V.V. and Orange-kun for the time being. anyway, I doubt it. If she isn't Geassed, she'll either be kept around as a special prisoner of sorts or be sent to her family and palced under parole/house arrest. Anyway, episode 12 should give us a hint of what'll become of her.

Rising Dragon · 2008-06-25, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Schneizel isn't the one in charge of that though as far as we know (he seemed quite clueless about the whole subject as such) and the guy that seems to be in charge of it, Bartley Asprius, seems to be busy with V.V. and Orange-kun for the time being. anyway, I doubt it. If she isn't Geassed, she'll either be kept around as a special prisoner of sorts or be sent to her family and palced under parole/house arrest. Anyway, episode 12 should give us a hint of what'll become of her.

Last I checked, Schneizel was the one who funded the beginning of Code R in the first place.

Aquaman OS · 2008-06-25, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Schneizel isn't the one in charge of that though as far as we know (he seemed quite clueless about the whole subject as such) and the guy that seems to be in charge of it, Bartley Asprius, seems to be busy with V.V. and Orange-kun for the time being.

He seemed to be in charge of it. Bartley reported to him. Schneizel bailed him out after the whole Clovis thing, and he was serving under him when they were at the Geass ruins. When Jeremiah broke out Bartley was last seen freaking out over what he was gonna report to his boss, who seemed to be Schneizel.

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2008-06-25, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

He seemed to be in charge of it. Bartley reported to him. Schneizel bailed him out after the whole Clovis thing, and he was serving under him when they were at the Geass ruins. When Jeremiah broke out Bartley was last seen freaking out over what he was gonna report to his boss, who seemed to be Schneizel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Last I checked, Schneizel was the one who funded the beginning of Code R in the first place.

Oh, was it? Well, then it makes it somewhat strange, as he said that he didn't know much about the subject when they were at the at the island - and the emperor's talk with Suzaku might hint at that Schneizel don't know anything about Geass... but you both have a point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

he didnt mind them being memory wiped

That is different. If Kallen is geassed into becoming loyal to Britannia and/or fight for them, then he'll be changing her very nature, character and beliefs, which wasn't the case for the student council - the emperor did not touch their beliefs nor their characters or natures - he just sealed any memories of Zero as well as changed their memories of Nunnally to Rolo...

Rising Dragon · 2008-06-25, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Oh, was it? Well, then it makes it somewhat strange, as he said that he didn't know much about the subject when they were at the at the island - and the emperor's talk with Suzaku might hint at that Schneizel don't know anything about Geass... but you both have a point.

That is different. If Kallen is geassed into becoming loyal to Britannia and/or fight for them, then he'll be changing her very nature, character and beliefs, which wasn't the case for the student council - the emperor did not touch their beliefs nor their characters or natures - he just sealed any memories of Zero as well as changed their memories of Nunnally to Rolo...

Do we even know it was the Emperor who did that? Sure, it matches, but we have no proof he actually did it. And after all, you don't need Geass to brainwash.

Aquaman OS · 2008-06-25, 16:56

To be honest we don't even know if their memories were really altered or if they were just instructed to play along. Lelouch thought they were but we have no proof, and as we've seen when it comes to Britannia and the Emperor Lelouch always jumps to the worst conclusion.

2008-06-25, 16:11	Link #1486
hanseo CC's Shining Knight Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SC, USA Age: 35	this is war people suzaku will use kallen how he sees fit suzaku and kallen are not friends __________________

2008-06-25, 15:50	Link #1482
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	It's much easier to break out one person than a hundred. Lelouch could Geass his way into wherever she's held and sneak her out without getting noticed. You'd notice a hundred people leaving, two however might be able to leave undetected. As I pointed out in the spoilers thread Geassing her into the Britannian knights would require Geassing not only Kallen, but just about the entire army except Suzaku in order for a known enemy to join their ranks without looking suspicious. And Geass is supposed to be a secret with Britannia too. Why go through all that trouble? They don't need her and neither the Emperor or Suzaku are spiteful enough to Geass her just to piss off Lelouch. The Emperor hasn't directly interfered before, why would he now. And if Suzaku really wanted her Geassed, he'd have her Geassed to forget about the Order and return to her civilian life. He didn't think war suited her after all. He didn't want her on his side, he just wanted her out of the battle.

2008-06-25, 16:01	Link #1484
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	He's still not evil or malicous. The Nunnally thing was a desperate last resort to see if Lelouch had awakened. He didn't exactly look thrilled about it. If he was just trying to hurt Lelouch he would have had a Light Yagami-ish "just as planned" evil grin, which he did not. Suzaku wouldn't have Kallen turned against the Order just to be mean. None of the main characters in Geass stoop to that kind of baby eating pointless evil (except maybe Mao) And like I said pulling that off will require Geassing tons on people. You can't just put a known enemy in your ranks and expect nobody to suspect anything.

2008-06-25, 16:25	Link #1488
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	They are friends actually in the same kind of odd twisted friendship Lelouch and Suzaku had in that they liked each other and even somewhat want the same thing but are on different sides. Suzaku gets no pleasure from either using Nunnally or Kallen. In both cases he had the blank sad look of "I can't believe we've come to this" rather than the enjoyment of hurting Lelouch like people claim he has. Using the arguement of "this is war" doesn't work because really nobody acts like that in Geass. If they did Lelouch would have Geassed Suzaku into service or killed him when he had the chance. Suzaku would have killed Lelouch at the finale, or as soon as he came back to Ashford killed Lelouch then even if he didn't regain his memory just to be safe. Suzaku would have killed the whole crowd in 8 because it wouldn't have mattered what Nunnally or Euphie wanted cause it was war. Neither of them act like this, and its unlikely to change because frankly normal war is boring and has no drama. You want to see realistic war go join the army. Geassing Kallen to fight for Britannian is both un needed and too much of a risk. It would be safer to just kill her or keep her locked away if they wanted the advantage. At any rate she's Schinizel's prisoner now. If anything she'll end up in Code R rather than Geassed.

2008-06-25, 16:56	Link #1500
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	To be honest we don't even know if their memories were really altered or if they were just instructed to play along. Lelouch thought they were but we have no proof, and as we've seen when it comes to Britannia and the Emperor Lelouch always jumps to the worst conclusion.