[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[Xplosivv]

Originally Posted by Helmet-kun

I've been itching to ask.

Has it ever been confirmed by anyone that Lyon was the baby from nineteen years ago?

I just finished the episode, and I believe it was. That's the whole thing, the main episode was a Kakera where Leon wasn't thrown of the cliff.

--

Anyhow, this episode pretty much throws Shkannon(trice) in my face, but it doesn't roll for me. I know there are scenes with no detective, but it still bothers me that the rest of the servants would talk to Shannon and Kanon.

It, just doesn't work for me.

[Squirrellord]

Originally Posted by Xplosivv

I just finished the episode, and I believe it was. That's the whole thing, the main episode was a Kakera where Leon wasn't thrown of the cliff.

--

Anyhow, this episode pretty much throws Shkannon(trice) in my face, but it doesn't roll for me. I know there are scenes with no detective, but it still bothers me that the rest of the servants would talk to Shannon and Kanon.

It, just doesn't work for me.

On the same vein, why was it impossible for Will to talk to both Shannon and Kanon at the same time? Because they're the same person? That logic doesn't work in that world, since Leon is Shannon/Kanon, and Will saw Leon with both of them at least once. So the only reason we weren't shown them together was because Shannon's "Master" forbade it.

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Squirrellord

On the same vein, why was it impossible for Will to talk to both Shannon and Kanon at the same time? Because they're the same person? That logic doesn't work in that world, since Leon is Shannon/Kanon, and Will saw Leon with both of them at least once. So the only reason we weren't shown them together was because Shannon's "Master" forbade it.

I think you're missing the bigger problem. In Leon's world, Shannon and Kanon cannot exist at all. We have Jessica remembering scenes from the original world, and Will saying that this chapel area is a construct that's a mix of several worlds, which explains why things don't quite add up.

In other words, Kanon and Shannon are not from the same world as Leon, so it doesn't matter if they're shown next to him/her. The mere fact that they exist in the same world at all is contradiction enough, but since the world we're in doesn't actually exist, that isn't a problem.

[Squirrellord]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

I think you're missing the bigger problem. In Leon's world, Shannon and Kanon cannot exist at all. We have Jessica remembering scenes from the original world, and Will saying that this chapel area is a construct that's a mix of several worlds, which explains why things don't quite add up.

In other words, Kanon and Shannon are not from the same world as Leon, so it doesn't matter if they're shown next to him/her. The mere fact that they exist in the same world at all is contradiction enough, but since the world we're in doesn't actually exist, that isn't a problem.

Right, I understand that quite well. It's just, if the world is a contradiction already, then why can't contradictions mix? That world doesn't seem to be bound by rules... Kinzo is alive, Leon is walking around, and Shannon and Kanon exist alongside Leon. It seems silly to me to think that, of all these contradictions, that only the one contradiction isn't allowed.

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Squirrellord

Right, I understand that quite well. It's just, if the world is a contradiction already, then why can't contradictions mix? That world doesn't seem to be bound by rules... Kinzo is alive, Leon is walking around, and Shannon and Kanon exist alongside Leon. It seems silly to me to think that, of all these contradictions, that only the one contradiction isn't allowed.

It's not that they can't mix, it's that the Game Master didn't let them mix, I think. That's why the scene, taken by itself, is far from proof that Shkanon is true. It clearly happened because Bern wanted it to happen. Even if Shkanon is true, I doubt she'd react quite like that when confronted

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Oliver

...actually, the kanji used to write "Ronoue" are apparently never used as part of a name.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless anyone does, I bet that name is not the one Genji was born with. Were he to be a foreigner born with that name, it would be in kana.

Out of curiosity, is there any way you can twist "Ronoue" into, say... Italian? Giuseppe to Genji? I dunno, but we've got an Italian around, we should ask and see if anything's similar.

It might fit with your "saved his life" idea. He could be much younger than Kinzo even if he was present as a younger sailor, given that Kinzo was likely in his 30s.

Originally Posted by chronotrig

It's not that they can't mix, it's that the Game Master didn't let them mix, I think. That's why the scene, taken by itself, is far from proof that Shkanon is true. It clearly happened because Bern wanted it to happen. Even if Shkanon is true, I doubt she'd react quite like that when confronted

Which makes me wonder what Bern's perspective on Shkanon is to begin with. She wouldn't prohibit it outright if she had no thought or opinion on it, though she'd do this whether it's true or false to troll Will (and us). Question is, was she the one forbidding it, or is this "master" somebody else?

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Renall

Which makes me wonder what Bern's perspective on Shkanon is to begin with. She wouldn't prohibit it outright if she had no thought or opinion on it, though she'd do this whether it's true or false to troll Will (and us). Question is, was she the one forbidding it, or is this "master" somebody else?

To be honest, I think it's mainly just Ryuukishi joking with us. I'm sure if any of his readers went to Rokkenjima, it's pretty much the first thing they'd ask to see. Unfortunately, that doesn't help us find out whether it's true or not, since it'd be just as funny/freaky either way.

[Oliver]

One thing I would like to know about Ep7 is... well, more than one, but they're tightly related.

Where is Battler in Leon's world? In the text, Leon seems to say he is on good terms with Battler, and mentions pinching his butt. But there is no way Battler is a frequent visitor to Rokkenjima. That would only work if Battler never left the family, or came back much earlier, but I didn't really catch which it was. Whichever it was, was Leon responsible? How?

Where is the Other Battler in Leon's world? The hypothetical person has interesting properties: a) It has to be born to Ushiromiya Asumu, but does not really have to be a grandson of Kinzo. b) It can be born at the same time as Our Battler, but nothing actually stops it from having been born earlier or later. Like, say, 19 years ago, or, as late as Ange. (Which actually suggests there is a slim chance Asumu died giving birth to Ange, but that would hardly explain anything.)

What is Asumu's maiden name? Could it, by any chance, be Yasuda?

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

It's not that they can't mix, it's that the Game Master didn't let them mix, I think. That's why the scene, taken by itself, is far from proof that Shkanon is true. It clearly happened because Bern wanted it to happen. Even if Shkanon is true, I doubt she'd react quite like that when confronted

Oh god "The girl who leapt through time" was easier than this

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Oliver

What is Asumu's maiden name? Could it, by any chance, be Yasuda?

Yasu was a nickname she received, which basically refers to her as a cheap servant.
You know, they're basically calling her worthless/useless.

Either way, am I the only one who wants a classic Battler vs Beatrice confrontation in EP8? Naturally, this time not as enemies, but as people/witches/whatever they are having fun.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Yasu was a nickname she received, which basically refers to her as a cheap servant.
You know, they're basically calling her worthless/useless.

The text does say that it is derived from an original last name that has no clear origin, unless I'm severely mistaken.

[DgBarca]

By coincidence...I just watched the OP again and...well...
I think the bomb theory, or Bern's gameboard in all...will be...destroyed...
I mean...Yeah, the Dlanor scene...

Spoiler for Huge:

Well...The bomb theory, to be denied with Know, I guess it's :
Knox's 4th. It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be USED!!

Why....I...am...writing...with...so....much....... .points?........

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by DgBarca

Well...The bomb theory, to be denied with Know, I guess it's :
Knox's 4th. It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be USED!!

It depends.

I must say that detonating 900 metric tons of any explosive all at once is a serious engineering feat. Especially if they are not actually a demolition bomb, but an ammunition storehouse as the text claims.

[Marion]

Well it's not hard to understand at all and the game explains the bomb pretty much in full.

The bomb is a clock inside of the room where the gold is (or in a corridor by the gold room) that has a right switch for on and a left switch for off (or maybe it's the other way around can't remember specifics). The clock is wired to 900 tons of dynamite located in a storehouse and the timer can be turned on or off at any time. Yasu waits in the gold room at night, waiting to see if anyone solves the epitaph. If no one does by midnight of October 5th then (s)he turns it on and leaves to start the epitaph murders.

Although as Oliver said, how the hell anyone can have 900 tons of dynamite anywhere is crazy. Then again Kinzo was an engineer and he is pretty nuts (not that Yasu isn't any crazier, what with setting up a bomb to blow the entire island up). Other than that it's not a hard to understand thing at all.

That and Dlanor doesn't appear in EP 7 at all.

[Disz]

I know Erika died and all but....doesn't Dlanor not appearing strike anyone as odd?I mean,why would she be in the OP?Unless EP8 is going to use the same.And why the flames?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Disz

I know Erika died and all but....doesn't Dlanor not appearing strike anyone as odd?

It didn't for me. I predicted that actually based on the fact that Erika died. With her gone Dlanor has no reason to be there since she was employed to protect her. I know a lot of people were disappointed expecting a Knox vs Dine battle.

Originally Posted by Disz

I mean,why would she be in the OP?Unless EP8 is going to use the same.And why the flames?

It's recap stuff.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Oliver

The text does say that it is derived from an original last name that has no clear origin, unless I'm severely mistaken.

Yes, the nickname Yasu was derived from Yasuda.
If I remember correctly, when Yasu was explaining how the "On" names worked, she said not all the kids knew who their parents were. So, I guess names were given to them. Yasu got Yasuda.

Well, Asumu may have been Yasuda, who knows?

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Marion

Although as Oliver said, how the hell anyone can have 900 tons of dynamite anywhere is crazy. Then again Kinzo was an engineer and he is pretty nuts (not that Yasu isn't any crazier, what with setting up a bomb to blow the entire island up). Other than that it's not a hard to understand thing at all.

If I understand it, it's not dynamite or explosives as such, but 900 tons of undetonated WW2-era torpedoes. Disregarding whether they would even still work (Rudolf or someone actually brings this up and Beatrice assures she's checked their potency), that's a lot of munitions for the Japanese government and/or Allies to overlook. The gold is one thing; after all, nobody was supposed to know it existed (in theory, anyway). But the Japanese government definitely knew Rokkenjima was a sub pen, so they'd have to know how many torpedoes they shipped out there.

But it's not hard to understand, for sure. It's basically a big bomb. Send electrical charge triggered on a timer (in this case, the clock), bomb goes boom. It's a little more complex than that, but it's easy enough to grasp the basic idea.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Renall

If I understand it, it's not dynamite or explosives as such, but 900 tons of undetonated WW2-era torpedoes.

For reference: A single Kaiten carries just over 1.5t worth of explosives. If that were in particular Kaiten torpedoes, there would have to be about 600 of them. Only 400 were built, and 100 of these were launched, so it definitely can't be them.

It can be Type 92 and Type 93 torpedoes, but that's still enough supply for most of the fleet for several major battles. You can forget that many bricks of explosives, but you don't forget that many complete ready-made munitions of, well, any kind. The text, however, clearly says it were them, without elaborating on type.

Originally Posted by Renall

But it's not hard to understand, for sure. It's basically a big bomb. Send electrical charge triggered on a timer (in this case, the clock), bomb goes boom. It's a little more complex than that, but it's easy enough to grasp the basic idea.

The particular challenge is to prevent the natural desynchronisation of the detonators from scattering charges that have yet to blow. Whether that happens or not heavily depends upon which particular mix of explosive substances was used...
...and whether there have been any earthquakes affecting the area.

[Renall]

Well it apparently worked, whatever it was.