Code Geass Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by Mysteria

Sunrise have scripted & created some of the best and greatest anime we've seen, and Code Geass is certainly an excellent example of this...

What anime? Aside from Mobile Suit Gundam, Planetes and maybe Cowboy Bebop, most of Sunrise's material has been pulp; high quality, but not "history defining" anime.

"most enjoyed" does not necessarily equate with "best".

Originally Posted by Mysteria

its amazing amount of great, intriguing and superbly-woven characters, straight from Lelouch (who probably has to be one of the most interesting & greatest protagonists in any anime) down to every single character...

That's not true at all. Correct, Lelouch is an original, fascinating character, but almost everyone else is a bloody stereotype, caricature or stock character with little motivation or explanation for their actions, which wouldn't exactly be "superbly-woven". Geass' cast is simply too large for that; for a story of its type, it can't accomodate more than two "complex" characters. I see those two as Lelouch and C.C.

Originally Posted by Mysteria

and the great storylines prevalent in each episode is superb; it makes me want to see each and every episode over and over again, and then wait for the next one.

Stock situations with stock characters, and a majority of the episodes were fanservice filler. If you're a fanservice person, good on ya, but fanservice isn't a trademark of a "high quality anime". Even the fanservice in Evangelion was little more than secondary to the main story all the time, there never were "fanservice episodes" like Geass.

Originally Posted by Mysteria

This is exactly why it's the hottest anime this season, and this is exactly why so many of Sunrise's series turn out to be such major successes. This latest episode is another example of why Code Geass is the greatest show out there.

High production values + heavy promotion correlate with high sales. Haruhi was the same way; little to no promotion at first, but it stacked up after the viral marketing took root. The viral marketing was fed by the high production values and fanservice, something epic titles like Monster or Akagi lack.

The popularity of the trashy fanservice, bishies and moe just lead me to the conclusion that the Japanese and "weeeaboo" westerners are just exceptionally shallow.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by aohige

Not necessary.

Remember, the Emperor was talking to Clovis, after he was shot dead.
Most likely, people who have relation with geass can communicate in the "world of C", even after their deaths.

Spoiler:

I had the idea before that the person C.C. was talking to was Marianne, but I thought it's definitely from the Loony bin, just that noone else really made sense to me

Looks like we can look forward to a "happy" ending in the afterlife after everyone is dead. That explains why there won't be a "Jupiter arc", but maybe the dubious spoiler about the S2 OP scene with Lulu, Euphie, and Nanaly in the world of C is really true.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Unless she benefitted from some hidden magick - the likes of which enabled Mao to come back from Gehenna in a hypothetically similar fashion - I doubt it'd be her.

Ehhhh.....

C.C. specifically addresses the person she's mind-talking with as "Marianne". Yes, she says her name clear and aloud.
What more do you want as proof?
It doesn't mean she's still alive "in this world" though.

EDIT: oh, you thought he said she's the one in the chinese federation? Where did you get THAT idea?
I don't see the original post mentioning the chinese federation... perhaps it's been edited.

[tritoch]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Unless she benefitted from some hidden magick - the likes of which enabled Mao to come back from Gehenna in a hypothetically similar fashion - I doubt it'd be her.

If by some devilry it's indeed her, then three mammoth questions would be RiverDancing their way up to us:
- How in the bejeezus did she survive without a word breathed to her children?
- Why did a supposedly doting mother all of a sudden not seek after her kids?
- How in the nine hells did she end up in the Chinese Federation?

Unless there's a credible answer for all three questions - so solid it could withstand the gross weight of an ocean liner - I'll assume it's the current leader of the Chinese Federation...possibly the Chairman/Secretary General of the local Politburo. As seen with the Chinese general during the Kyushuu campaign, a male sporting long hair is not an outlandish thing. He could very well have shoulder-length hair like that Jovian Federation guy from Martian Successor Nadesico.

zomg. That long hair dude is Gil from GSD hahahaha Gundam cameo ftw!

Just kidding.

(people will probably whine about the Gundam comparisons again. I promise it I was just kidding.)

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Unless she benefitted from some hidden magick - the likes of which enabled Mao to come back from Gehenna in a hypothetically similar fashion - I doubt it'd be her.

Well Mao was hit by multiple bullets yet he came back alive, just because "Britannia's medicine is great".
So it shouldn't be too surprising that Marianne could have survived to that incident (or simulation?).

- How in the bejeezus did she survive without a word breathed to her children?

Perhaps she wants Lelouch to become the emperor through the "survival of the fittest" thing? If that's the case and Marianne simulated all that then this would make Lelouch's struggle totally useless and he would become a poor fool. She may want Lelouch to destroy Britannia and having her revenge perhaps.
That would be quite a huge plot twist. Unlikely but not impossible.

Unless there's a credible answer for all three questions - so solid it could withstand the gross weight of an ocean liner - I'll assume it's the current leader of the Chinese Federation...possibly the Chairman/Secretary General of the local Politburo. As seen with the Chinese general during the Kyushuu campaign, a male sporting long hair is not an outlandish thing. He could very well have shoulder-length hair like that Jovian Federation guy from Martian Successor Nadesico.

If that person appeared while CC was talking to Marianne then it can be a hint she's indeed Marianne: if she managed to survive to that assassination and wants revenge it wouldn't be too strange for her living within an enemy of Britannia. If that's true this will require a god-level script writing skill.

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by aohige

Ehhhh.....

C.C. specifically addresses the person she's mind-talking with as "Marianne". Yes, she says her name clear and aloud.
What more do you want as proof?
It doesn't mean she's still alive "in this world" though.

EDIT: oh, you thought he said she's the one in the chinese federation? Where did you get THAT idea?
I don't see the original post mentioning the chinese federation... perhaps it's been edited.

Ah. Ehm. I was referring to the long-haired person (with a white headband) who was watching out of the window...with a Chinese-styled office and desk. It seems I've nevertheless mixed up a few things but to clear things up, I never said that that guy who's looking at those mountains was Marianne.

That was the heart of my answer - whether the long-haired person was Marianne or not. I never contradicted the idea that she was conversing, as a spirit, with C.C. As a matter of fact, I've already spoken about it a while ago when C.C. started to make some comments to her invisible interlocutor.

If you're asking for pics, well, the screenshot is on Omni's blog - right under the screencap of our dear reclining Rakshata (since that's the official spelling - Rakshata Chawla)...

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

First of all, WHY would you drop a show after hearing about a second season? If they have more story to tell and get a chance to do it, why is that a reason to throw the show away? I can think of several shows, Japanese or otherwise, which could have benefitted from "time extensions" (Evangelion being the most immediately obvious example, though the "extension" wouldn't have been an additional full 26 episodes.)

I think Eva's original ending was superior to that god-awful movie, but that's irrelvant. Frankly, I don't know why he would drop the entire series, but I can imagine why and I support his position; he doesn't like the pacing of Geass and thinks it's not worth his time if it keeps going as is. Why people have a problem with people like him is beyond me; I've noticed that folks are always fudging embarassed/insulted or whatever when someone watches some of a series and say "I don't like it".

Weeaboo start ranting, going "LOLZ U DIDN'T GET TO EPISODE 62 THATS WHERE THE SERIES PICKS UP SSRLY". Why the HECK would someone torture themselves with more episodes of a series if they didnt like it? Why are the fans so bloody concerned with "improving the rep of their shows" if people don't really like it at all?

Saying people who don't watch a series in full "trolls" or "idiots" is retarded, since unless there's a bloody paradigm shift most people can "read" the progression of a series from at most eight episodes.

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

Geass is at least on par with anything else on television in any country at this point.

That's not much of an accomplishment, given most American television is horrible, which is why we're watching Japanese television and invented a name for it.

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

The pacing seemed a bit odd AT FIRST, but with the conclusion coming we can see that pretty much everything in the show was done very, very deliberately.

You mean to imply you didn't like the 100 KM/H plot progression in the first ten or so episodes? I think that's what people liked the most.

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

And there is such a thing as "using cliche well" (never mind using cliche with the deliberate intent of turning it on its ear, as they did with Euphie.)

Even the best ham & swiss sandwich is ultimately just full of baloney and cheese. It doesn't matter how much tasty trans-fat is in it, if one always eats such sandwiches it's still horribly bland. Frankly, only a One Piece fan would dare say that kind of thing.

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

And what "outrageous improbability" does the show suffer from? The only thing I can think of right now is the episode where Lulu, Euphie, Karen and Suzaku end up on that island, as we're still unclear on how they survived being HADRON CANNON'D. If you mean the equipment of the Black Knights... Lulu subverted and took command of a resistance movement and is getting support from a larger group (Kyoto) that clearly has access to pretty impressive resources. And have you forgotten the equipment raids they conducted earlier in the series? About the only real plot-hole equipmentwise is Lulu's helmet (where did he get such a thing custom-ordered, anyhow? Plus how does he see out of it? )

Continuity disjunctions. Lelouch escaping from the hotel-jacking incident, how quickly he got to Clovis while geassing everyone without Clovis screaming in terror on television, Kallen & Ougi alone repairing Clovis' vehicle to look so professional, Lelouch's Knightmare getting constantly rebuilt, the mechanism in Lelouch's helmet, Mao's aquisition of a bomb, Mao surviving getting shot but Nunally, Clovis, and Euphemia suffering from less...stuff that can only be explained by "shounen magic".

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

Geass is pretty much the finest piece of television, animated or otherwise, Japanese or otherwise, that I've seen in years. It's certainly light years ahead of a lot of the lolita-complex-pandering dreck that seems to clog the airwaves (not to mention the torrents) these days.

In spite of some new modes and orders, Geass still has more antiquated plot devices, stock characters, and fanservice than original writing. Heck, the "core" of Geass is that of heavily tweaked 'copypasta' from Death Note, with elements from Gundam and Ouran to try and appeal to everyone. One of those newfangled "all-genre" anime we call "shounen".

I'll agree Geass is better than Rozen or Nanoha trash, but it's not exactly a once-in-a-decade innovative breakthrough show. Try the classics, grasshopper. :|

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

Oh, as far as the delay on the last two episodes go: it's as aohige said. If anything this is going to hurt their ratings since with the way the episodes jump from cliffhanger to cliffhanger, a delay like this kills momentum for the viewership. They're doing it only because they gave into fan demand for recap episodes, and I suspect Summer is the earliest they could find any time to get the rest of the Geass episodes published. Television schedules are prepared months in advance, remember.

I don't think anyone wanted those recaps. Geass popularity will hurt from the punctuated plot flow, though.

Originally Posted by aohige

Ehhhh.....

C.C. specifically addresses the person she's mind-talking with as "Marianne". Yes, she says her name clear and aloud.
What more do you want as proof?

...

OH SHI-

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Ah. Ehm. I was referring to the long-haired person (with a white headband) who was watching out of the window...with a Chinese-styled office and desk. It seems I've nevertheless mixed up a few things but to clear things up, I never said that that guy who's looking at those mountains was Marianne.

That was the heart of my answer - whether the long-haired person was Marianne or not. I never contradicted the idea that she was conversing, as a spirit, with C.C. As a matter of fact, I've already spoken about it a while ago when C.C. started to make some comments to her invisible interlocutor.

Nono, I understand that you don't think that person is Marianne. Of course not. None of us think that's the case.

I was wondering where you got that idea that anyone was suggesting that chinese person is Marianne in the first place.
You replied to bkg9990 as if he suggested that chinese person is Marianne, but he didn't.

What I mean is, you're answering "I doubt it's her" to a non-existent question in the first place.

Anyways... that person is probably someone to play an important role in S2 as a leader in the Chinese Federation.
And just like Schneizel, I'm willing to bet he's Clamp-ish biseinen.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

That's not much of an accomplishment, given most American television is horrible, which is why we're watching Japanese television and invented a name for it.

Heh, you hit the nail on the head. Not just american TV, though. Apart from a small number select shows and and a couple of French and Russian movies, I find most TV/cinematography to be sorely lacking. And it only gets worse as we progress.

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Continuity disjunctions. Lelouch escaping from the hotel-jacking incident, how quickly he got to Clovis while geassing everyone without Clovis screaming in terror on television, Kallen & Ougi alone repairing Clovis' vehicle to look so professional, Lelouch's Knightmare getting constantly rebuilt, the mechanism in Lelouch's helmet, Mao's aquisition of a bomb, Mao surviving getting shot but Nunally, Clovis, and Euphemia suffering from less...stuff that can only be explained by "shounen magic".

Nevermind those complex scenarios, we have paradoxes such as Shirley's glove mysteriously dimension-shifting while she picks up her hairpin... makes you wonder sometimes if the creators watch their own show -_-;

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

I'll agree Geass is better than Rozen or Nanoha trash, but it's not exactly a once-in-a-decade innovative breakthrough show. Try the classics, grasshopper. :|

It's not. It is, however, very entertaining. Something I can't say of the vast majority of anime. And since this was the original intent behind the show, I think we can consider it a success so far.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by aohige

Nono, I understand that you don't think that person is Marianne. Of course not.

I was wondering where you go that idea that anyone was suggesting that chinese person is Marianne in the first place.
You replied to bkg9990 as if he suggested that chinese person is Marianne, but he didn't.

What I mean is, you're answering "I doubt it's her" to a non-existent question in the first place.

I wrote that possibility...

[aohige]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

I wrote that possibility...

Ah, gotcha.
I guess he only quoted the original question, and didn't quote yours, confusing me where he got that idea.

[Juvyniled]

EDIT: Nevermind, just read some other posts.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by aohige

Ah, gotcha.
I guess he only quoted the original question, and didn't quote yours, confusing me where he got that idea.

Anyway why are you so much against that guy being Marianne? I mean: physically they're compatible. But it depends on when that guy is shown. If it's shown when CC's is talking then it's much more probable.

[tritoch]

Actually after close scrutiny, whoever that is looking out in the mountains has a girl figure. But this is CLAMP by the way which means that GUYS would be AS HOT AS the GIRLS

[metamorphic]

Code Geass is most certainly amongst the greatest and best anime, and this episode tonight just proves this very true fact: what a truly magnificent series it is. It provides an unique, complex, interesting and intriguing storyline which contains several wonderfully-woven concepts, such as the amazing mystery and saga surrounding C.C. and the source of geass, which has always been the series's unique, true core, and which this episode has, interestingly, expanded upon in a unique manner. I personally can't wait for the future episodes, after such an excellent episode as stage 23.

[xcxcxcc]

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww w
code geass is insane.

Nina looked scary, will she team up with suzaku and cornelia to defeat zero???

[Niar]

oh my god...

Code Geass it's just the best.

10/10

[Decagon]

Feels like Lelouch doesn't care about anyone but Nunnally now (and CC). But since he started the damn conflict because of that, it would be better to say he doesn't care about anyone dying except Nunnally. This show has had quite a few psychopaths.

[Flame-X]

HOLY FREAKIN HELL!!!!
10/10

LOL @ nina's face, almost looked like rena from higurashi.

and orange-kun is back!!

[The-Ghost]

insane ep, clamp really knows how to get the emotions going with how they had Euphie die while Susaku had to lie to her. this ep diffinetly is one of thee best eps in this series only 24 or 25 could possibley top this one. i like how they re did the op to include a breif look over the series and ending with Lulu/Zeros tears at have to order his sisters death.

Cornellia showed sadness in this series for the first time and came back, from her sorrow to try and get ready to crush Zero. i wonder how her shocked find would react to finding out the both Lulu and nunally are both alive and kicking, and that Lulu her thought to be dead brother is the reason her greatest joy in the world is no longer in the world.

its seams like Susaku is finaly getting the picture that Lulu = zero from the phone call and the look on his face.

one thing i didnt get was how lulu took down the settle ment. is it made out of units that with one computer comand could destroy the place or was it actualy bombs to took out the buildings?