Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 30 Discussion

[orpheus2]

Originally Posted by grss1982

That had me thinking as well. Years after the corruption in the Federation is cleansed by Flit, the federation now gets idiotic commanders like that? That guy must be a supporter of the old administration of something. :P

It is more likely is just his pride as a soldier. After all, you wouldn't you feel the if your authority is undermined by a retired old soldier.

[flack]

Originally Posted by orpheus2

They want to cleanse the of all native Earthlings. Be it civilian or military.

God...if that is the reason...the story is basically:

The villain: Super evil, out to exterminate the other nation for the sole purpose of benefiting themselves.
-Pretty dumb reason to start a war. But then again in real life humanity past history has proven them to be just that...

The good guys: Must eliminate the evil completely.

And then this is what I fear will happen:

The cliche anime ending:
The good guys completely destroys the evildoers, except for their civilians. Everything is fine and there is peace.

Real life:
C'mon you think that is possible? The war will continue to go on, I mean look at how many vagan hide on earth that nobody found out. Even if they defeat the vagan, there will be terrorist groups hiding on earth that will seek revenge. So this is what really likely to happen:

All vagan the earth people can get their hands on will be exterminated. Destruction of vagan civilians will be hidden from the public or presented to the public in "another" way. And life goes on, anybody who is found to be vagan is send to death. In other words, complete genocide. This has to be done because they fought against them for 100 years and one side must be completely destroyed for the war to end, no way they can reach a peace agreement.

[atilim]

Originally Posted by grss1982

So Earth invaded + Inexperienced ship screw is the last hope + next episode in the desert = MSG much?

Watching the captain being so indecisive made me one to punch out my computer monitor.



That had me thinking as well. Years after the corruption in the Federation is cleansed by Flit, the federation now gets idiotic commanders like that? That guy must be a supporter of the old administration of something. :P

To be honest I could understand why he was reluctant to send out Diva.

First you have to reassign soldiers to pilot the dammed thing during combat, his opinion as the commander of the base would be that the resourcers would be better spend then sending a ''old'' (flits own words) ship.

Also he might just refused out of principle since Flit (his actions are awsome) was really rude in demanding a battle ship like that.

What the fault of the commander is that he isn't aware of the capability's of the ships under his command. I personally expected Flit to remove the Age system if the ship itself was more a museum peace but since it has always stayed on the ship the commander should have been aware of the incredible device that has changed the outcome of major battles.

But it is a habit of every Gundam show to make commanders incompetent so the front soldiers have a chance to shine. The only exception to this rule is Flit and his former playboy number 2.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by flack

Real life:
C'mon you think that is possible? The war will continue to go on, I mean look at how many vagan hide on earth that nobody found out. Even if they defeat the vagan, there will be terrorist groups hiding on earth that will seek revenge. So this is what really likely to happen:

All vagan the earth people can get their hands on will be exterminated. Destruction of vagan civilians will be hidden from the public or presented to the public in "another" way. And life goes on, anybody who is found to be vagan is send to death. In other words, complete genocide. This has to be done because they fought against them for 100 years and one side must be completely destroyed for the war to end, no way they can reach a peace agreement.

Real Life:

Sri Lanka destroyed the Tamil Tiger rebellion killing its leaders and destroying its capacity to fight. Tamil Tigers surrendered so their civilians would be spared of casualties.

In WWII Japan and Germany surrendered when their capacity to fight was destroyed and never pulled anything like what they did ever since. Becoming pacifists.


So the Federation through its actions must show the Vegans the futility of their barbaric warfare.

And yes reach Mars itself to make a point.

Course I can see Ezelcant pull a Nero Decree and try to destroy the Vegan people than surrender.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Real Life:

Sri Lanka destroyed the Tamil Tiger rebellion killing its leaders and destroying its capacity to fight. Tamil Tigers surrendered so their civilians would be spared of casualties.

In WWII Japan and Germany surrendered when their capacity to fight was destroyed and never pulled anything like what they did ever since. Becoming pacifists.


So the Federation through its actions must show the Vegans the futility of their barbaric warfare.

And yes reach Mars itself to make a point.

Course I can see Ezelcant pull a Nero Decree and try to destroy the Vegan people than surrender.

Germany surrendered after a bitter fight to the end. The allies bombed it to the ground, killing thousands of civilians. The Soviets had to fight street by street to take Berlin.

Japan was to be even worse than Germany, they only surrendered after getting nuked twice. Their plan was to fight to the bitter end with every man woman and child in the main islands.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Germany surrendered after a bitter fight to the end. The allies bombed it to the ground, killing thousands of civilians. The Soviets had to fight street by street to take Berlin.

Japan was to be even worse than Germany, they only surrendered after getting nuked twice. Their plan was to fight to the bitter end with every man woman and child in the main islands.

Bitter fight to the end, Germans. Yeah they would fight to the bitter end that they would rather surrender to the West than the Russian army.

If the Battle Stalingrad proved anything Germans had sense and were not suicidal.

Actually Germany had it worse than Japan. Sure they were H-bombed but the number of civilian casualties and suffering were minimized by surrendering rather than being invaded like Germany.

You don't read much do you?

[maplehurry]

Japan was to be even worse than Germany, they only surrendered after getting nuked twice. Their plan was to fight to the bitter end with every man woman and child in the main islands.

That would be the really short version to describe it, omitting several important points.

On a side note, Himmler offered to surrender to Allies, the same guy being one of the key figures for all the Jewish death in camp.

I would stop here because this is getting off-topic lol.

[Dark Wing]

well lets be honest people the road to peace is never easy no matter the scale of the conflict. I can really see the Vagan and Earthlings still feuding.

You'll have bitterness and strife that would last for generations to come

[orpheus2]

True. The cycle of hatred and revenge can never be settled in one generation. It may take 10 or more before it subsides.

[trinitem]

Food on the bridge. Again.

[Gundamx]

Let me see
FED tried to start peace with them
(Flit will have to agree since he is part of it)
Vegan refused and want to kill every earthing
So what Flit can do to protect earthing?
1 kill every Vegan
2 try for peace with Vegan who don’t want it even if it was favorable to them
What will you do if you were Flit?

Oh and as you said we already know that Vegan = evil
But we also know that Flit want to kill all Vegan since Age-2
Yet you only angry at Flit when he talked yet you ignored the Vegan when they kill everyone…

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by flack

God...if that is the reason...the story is basically:

The villain: Super evil, out to exterminate the other nation for the sole purpose of benefiting themselves.
-Pretty dumb reason to start a war. But then again in real life humanity past history has proven them to be just that...

The good guys: Must eliminate the evil completely.

And then this is what I fear will happen:

The cliche anime ending:
The good guys completely destroys the evildoers, except for their civilians. Everything is fine and there is peace.

Real life:
C'mon you think that is possible? The war will continue to go on, I mean look at how many vagan hide on earth that nobody found out. Even if they defeat the vagan, there will be terrorist groups hiding on earth that will seek revenge. So this is what really likely to happen:

All vagan the earth people can get their hands on will be exterminated. Destruction of vagan civilians will be hidden from the public or presented to the public in "another" way. And life goes on, anybody who is found to be vagan is send to death. In other words, complete genocide. This has to be done because they fought against them for 100 years and one side must be completely destroyed for the war to end, no way they can reach a peace agreement.

More like...

- Flit wants to wipe out all the Vagans because they killed his family and two colonies he called home... massacred thousands, if not millions..
- Most terrans just don't want to fight a war.
- Ezelcant wants to take over Earth because he thinks his people got screwed over.
- Most Vagans want a nicer place to live and follow Ezelcant because he promises good times on Earth.

Flit has the mad scientist gene... he's going to snap.

Kio is going to be X-Rounder messiah. He's surrounded by misfits and he'll make friends with the enemies... not like Flit did... make real friends.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Find me a person with the exact opposite traits of one Bright Noah...we shall call her Natora and she shall be our decoy I mean distraction I mean captain?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

If you had read any decent history book you'd know that as soon as the Allies crossed into German territory resistance was fanatical and to the bitter end. Those who wanted to surrender were shot by hardline Nazis following Hitler's order to resist to the last German and to kill any "traitors". The Nazi party organized and directed the Volksstrum, which consisted of young teens and old men. They fought to the death. This is why the western allies sat back and let the Soviets make the push into Berlin. They didn't want to take the casualties that would be necessary to take Berlin.

Off Topic:

LOL You really are a historical revisionist. Germans knew they weren't going to win except Hitler. Why do suppose Goering telegraphed Hitler to give him permission to lead Germany? Or Himmler trying to negotiate with the West so at least the Nazi's would hold only Germany and not surrender to the Russians? Both of which made Hitler very angry.

Why did Abwehr opened a communications line to the British and tried to kill Hitler several times and had a coup attempt? So Germany can surrender with reaping what it sown.

Heck when Hitler issued his Nero decree Albert Speer sabotaged those orders.

Germans knew they were beat it just that Hitler would rather take them along to his grave.


Japanese on the other hand were counting on one decisive battle so they could negotiate in a position of strength upon surrendering. Hiroshima and Nagasaki shattered any such expectations.


On Topic:

Vegans are on the loosing end even if they destroyed the Big Ring. The numbers and industrial capacity of the Federation and independent colony nations would outlast them.

Sure they have their death ray well so does the Federation. There at least is tech parity. But that is one death ray. The Federation can build more photon blasters. If the Diva is seen fit to retire I can't see the Federation not having at least several ships equipped with it.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Let me see
FED tried to start peace with them
(Flit will have to agree since he is part of it)
Vegan refused and want to kill every earthing
So what Flit can do to protect earthing?
1 kill every Vegan
2 try for peace with Vegan who don’t want it even if it was favorable to them
What will you do if you were Flit?
3 Find and Defeat Ezcelant once and for how

Added that for you.

That's what Flit told Kio. He didn't tell Kio to destroy all Vagans, he told Kio that Ezelant is their main bad guy and he must be stopped at all costs.

Vegans are on the loosing end even if they destroyed the Big Ring. The numbers and industrial capacity of the Federation and independent colony nations would outlast them.

Sure they have their death ray well so does the Federation. There at least is tech parity. But that is one death ray. The Federation can build more photon blasters. If the Diva is seen fit to retire I can't see the Federation not having at least several ships equipped with it.

Yeah but the infiltration from the Vagans was so deep and severe I don't think the Federation will be in "shock" for some time.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

On Topic:

Vegans are on the loosing end even if they destroyed the Big Ring. The numbers and industrial capacity of the Federation and independent colony nations would outlast them.

Sure they have their death ray well so does the Federation. There at least is tech parity. But that is one death ray. The Federation can build more photon blasters. If the Diva is seen fit to retire I can't see the Federation not having at least several ships equipped with it.

They have a giant stealth laser of doom that can just pop out of nowhere and blow up an entire colony....Not to mention they don't seem to have population issues despite the 20% mortality rate. In fact in battles Vagans seem to outnumber the EFF....

Who's to say they don't have any more factories within the Earth sphere to support their war effort? Besides, there's always bound ot be spacenoids that resent the elitist Earth government and would be willing to co-operate with the Vagans.

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Added that for you.

That's what Flit told Kio. He didn't tell Kio to destroy all Vagans, he told Kio that Ezelant is their main bad guy and he must be stopped at all costs.

Uhmm, he didn't say it in a way to exempt the rest of Vagans. Kio did say he'll defeat all Vagans; Flit didn't correct him.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Besides, there's always bound ot be spacenoids that resent the elitist Earth government and would be willing to co-operate with the Vagans.

Unlike UC here colonies are independent and Federation recognized. So independent they had alliance wars with each other.

Spoiler for Euba vs Zalam:

I'm sure colony nation opinion would be anti-Vegan since they were the first victims.

Vegans tried to pull divide and conquer tactics but that only galvanized Euba and Zalam even more when they tried to blow up their colony.

Ract he still around. Backing the wild card faction in this generation.

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

They have a giant stealth laser of doom that can just pop out of nowhere and blow up an entire colony....Not to mention they don't seem to have population issues despite the 20% mortality rate. In fact in battles Vagans seem to outnumber the EFF....

Who's to say they don't have any more factories within the Earth sphere to support their war effort? Besides, there's always bound ot be spacenoids that resent the elitist Earth government and would be willing to co-operate with the Vagans.

Who needs about a giant laser when you can just fire a Nuke?

Nuke solves all problems.

[flack]

Originally Posted by Nvis

Who needs about a giant laser when you can just fire a Nuke?

Nuke solves all problems.

Considering the technology level of both sides they can easily blow the shit out of each other, which likely would happen to the winning side for the sake of revenge.