[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 8 Twilight of the golden witch

[unsuspectingvisitor]

or maybe Ikuko used her money for plastic surgery.

[AuraTwilight]

But not to fix Toya's legs or anything. Lol what a bitch.

[unsuspectingvisitor]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

But not to fix Toya's legs or anything. Lol what a bitch.

He had a Brain related injury right?

[Jan-Poo]

Tohya got some brain damage before he met Ikuko, then after he started rememebering who he was he attempted suicide only managing to get on a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

Not much that could have been done for either problem though... no matter how much money Ikuko had...

[Landir]

I don't think that's Ikuko's daughter or something like that. Ange says that she realize that the woman is older than her, even if she seems strangely young. And Toya refers to her as Ikuko herself, not someone else, they both talk about when they first met long time ago.
Still, i don't get what's the message that Ryu07 wants to give us, showing that Ikuko is young after 20 or even more years.

[Jaden]

Not sure what to think about this episode.

I think I share most people's sentiments when I wish the reality of the Rokkenjima incident turned out to be interesting. Instead it's something so dull it isn't even worth mentioning, even with all the build-up there was towards it...

But at least there is a conclusive ending, there was plenty of fan service and one liners, lol. I don't hate that stuff.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Landir

Still, i don't get what's the message that Ryu07 wants to give us, showing that Ikuko is young after 20 or even more years.

My opinion is that he was too lazy to create an aged sprite for her, so he had to put a comment on how she looked still young after several decades. Same with Ange, but in her case he pulled off the card of the "invisible main character" common in many visual novels.

A bit of recolor for Battler with the already recolored head from young Kinzo and voilà!

[AuraTwilight]

I highly doubt it if only because aging Ikuko would've been ridiculously easy even for him. If nothing else he could have grayed her hair or something, or just...IGNORED it and let people impress the aging effects themselves, or have Ange comment that although Ikuko was definitely older than last she made a public appearance, she covered it up well with makeup.

But he went for the route that made her seem to be literally ageless and immortal, devoting like an entire paragraph to it.

[James Lame]

That he took the time to point that out, shouldn't be hand waved away. I mean, R07 knows he has a very observant fan base, so if it wasn't supposed to mean anything he could have worded her ageless-nes a lot better. But honestly, I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean, maybe it is insignificant after all...

[Jaden]

Now I probably just missed something in the first part of the episode since it's been a while, but where did Eva's diary come from and how did it end up with Ikuko?

Or was such a thing actually never found (It merely exists somewhere that only witches can see, and contains the truth) and it was the memory impaired Battler providing her all the insider information?

Or could it be that this is still open for debate?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Now I probably just missed something in the first part of the episode since it's been a while, but where did Eva's diary come from and how did it end up with Ikuko?

there was never any mention of Eva's diary before EP8 and the how it ended up in Ikuko's possession was never clearly explained. It was said that some nurse or something found the diary in the hospital room where Eva died, and then sold it to some witch hunter who, for some inexplicable reason, was just content possessing it, and yet somehow he relinquished that possesson to Ikuko even though no one was even supposed to know who she was. And all that in total secrecy.

How could that happen is a real mystery....

Or maybe it's all fantasy...

[Ayu-ayu]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

there was never any mention of Eva's diary before EP8 and the how it ended up in Ikuko's possession was never clearly explained. It was said that some nurse or something found the diary in the hospital room where Eva died, and then sold it to some witch hunter who, for some inexplicable reason, was just content possessing it, and yet somehow he relinquished that possesson to Ikuko even though no one was even supposed to know who she was. And all that in total secrecy.

How could that happen is a real mystery....

Or maybe it's all fantasy...

"Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality...." (/Bohemian Rhapsody)

The diary is Ikuko's crowning work as her grand forgery. However, she realized at the last moment an inconsistency in it and decided not to reveal it after all, knowing Ange would see through it. Tohya is not necessarily Battler at all but some amnesiac she found and tried to mold into him as part of the reveal...who may or may not be the real deal.

Sorry, just thinking out loud.

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

The diary is Ikuko's crowning work as her grand forgery. However, she realized at the last moment an inconsistency in it and decided not to reveal it after all, knowing Ange would see through it.

Alternatively, she has a pang of conscious and decides maybe she's making too much money and success on account of a bunch of tragically dead people. I rather like this, actually. XD

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

Tohya is not necessarily Battler at all but some amnesiac she found and tried to mold into him as part of the reveal...who may or may not be the real deal.

Doubtful, if only because Tohya could give a detailed account of Battler's life before Rokkenjima.

As of current, I'm believing in the existence and truth (if a bit fragmented) of Eva's diary, as a sort of literary device / message from Ryukishi that he himself has an idea of what happened on R-Prime, even if he won't tell it.

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by Kealym

As of current, I'm believing in the existence and truth (if a bit fragmented) of Eva's diary, as a sort of literary device / message from Ryukishi that he himself has an idea of what happened on R-Prime, even if he won't tell it.

Which is bullsh*t on two accounts.

[AuraTwilight]

Care to elaborate, Erensel?

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Care to elaborate, Erensel?

1) From the way Kealym said it, the metaphor implies that R07 himself doesn't have a direct idea of R-prime.

2) He won't tell us what it is, and I say screw that because I have the naive hope that he willl.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

1) From the way Kealym said it, the metaphor implies that R07 himself doesn't have a direct idea of R-prime.

I think he said the opposite.

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I think he said the opposite.

Oh, okay, I sware I was about to throw a tantrum.

[PsychoShion]

beatrice and battler only exist as fantasy , they cant both exist. Its like this, to be saved the other must exist. However since this is a tragedy they both cant exist at the same time.



Its like two people seeing each other in a pond and they see each other in the ponds relection. If they extend their arm to grasp the other they would be pulling there own arm into the pond to drown oneself. A snake eating its own tail.

like how higurashi is a mirror'ed side of Umineko and fantasy and mystery being the 2 sides of one coin.


At the end its touya and Ikuto.... NOw if Ikuto is "beatrice" or "Yasu" See no battler and "Beatrice". If he had stayed battler it would have been a perfect ending. But R07, if he wanted the heart of the story to continue with Ange, he would have to bring battler back. But that would make it a perfect ending for Ange.

So to show the heart of the strory he had to show that BATTler and beatrice could not exist in the end.

cant have Battler , Ikuto

and to end the story but on a note that bernkastel promised he reunited Ange with her brother but he was Touya now.

Cant have Ange and Battler.


So we end up with what we have because he had to finish the 1-4 story line along with the whole future Ange story line and connect it with the one thing that Beatrice and Ange they both have in common. Battler's partly refreshed memories.

The whole 5-8 is like a love letter from ikuto to touya or vice versa.


BUt since there is no Ange,Battler, IKuto, but there is Ange, Touya, Ikuto....thats why on there is no true battler and beatrice. Battler was never saved by beatrice or was she ??????? And Beatrice was not saved by Battler. However we are to believe in the fictions that battler saved her soul and that beatrice saved his by becoming Ikuto and writing this to save his memory.

Battler only existed as a miracale to rescue Beatrice in the bridcage, and Beatice only existed to prove that he understood her games in the end of 6. The meta games in our minds is the only place they existed together. Unless you want to think of all of the meta world as the workings of Touya and IKuto relationship and how they finally got together.

[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Smeckledorf

I have nothing against you for liking the episode. I don't know why anyone would. My beef is with R07. An answer is owed to mystery.

I can't really understand what so many people complain about. An answer WAS given to the mystery in EP7. Ryukishi07 himself said in an interview that it wouldn't be fair without one, though his intention was to give it out in a vague way, so people who had solved it would have their theory confirm, whereas those who didn't think about it on their own wouldn't be able to get it, which is only fair if you think about, since Umineko can be enjoyed as a logic puzzle but also as palin narrative, though no answers are owed for the latter.

In my opinion, the answers given were enough to confirm if your answer was right or not. I won't brag that I solved every single closed room in Umineko, of course I didn't, but I had reached a satisfying theory by EP6 -which is technically also a confession but, oh well!- and I had it confirmed at EP7. If you think about it, Clair's and Will's final showdown in the end of the episode has the purpose to give out the answers to each closed rooms individually, though they are more of vital hints to confirm answers than the actual answers. Having all the mysteries presented answered and solved, even in the vague way they were, the actual events of October 4th and 5th are of no value after the Cat Box has shut down permanantly.