Macross Delta - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[FlareKnight]

Well that's a shame. Messer had developed into a pretty enjoyable character. Too bad he came back to the battlefield to get killed off. Though a pretty darn good battle to be sure. Even with Hayate in 'riding the wind' mode, not sure how he or anyone is going to be able to handle Keith right now. That guy just has everyone outclassed.

Though his win here was mostly due to having a better machine. The match doesn't end like that if Messer has the ability to drop physical shields in front of attacks like that. I think in terms of pure skills it was pretty darn even. Put in the same machine and who knows what happens. But such is how it goes. Sometimes you get the weaker option.

Rather more impressive that with 10 episodes of dog fighting so few members have actually died. And it's only going to get worse if the show doesn't come up with some way to balance things out. Without Messer they were getting their rears kicked out there. It completely balanced out with his return and now he's down again....not good.

Well that sucks. Figures the moment that someone like Messer becomes sympathetic....he's basically dead. Well to be fair he was pretty screwed anyways. With the Var getting to him in any given conflict. The moment he got passed that you knew he was dead. Able to actually use the Var to his advantage and pilot like a badass? Yeah he's got to die. Can't let anyone stand between Hayate and top pilot status here . Certainly death has an impact in shows. But I do agree that it certainly costs the show an interesting aspect with Messer out of it.

[charles883]

I guess now all Delta squadron now step up their piloting skill especially Hayate and Mirage.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Why I get the feeling that Winderemere will get screwed over by Epsilon Foundation, I bet using data from Vars and song, they can use it against Winderemere

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I made the mistake of checking the general discussion thread this morning and got spoiled for Messer's death, which deprived it of much of its impact. Actually it also deprived his "cavalry to the rescue" moment of much of its impact as well (though him showing up to assist probably wasn't entirely unpredictable even without knowing that he was going to die this episode).

While I don't really feel rage over Messer's death I do feel the show lost some of its more interesting romantic/interpersonal relationships because of it.

As for me...I probably shouldn't have spoiled myself deliberately. Found it difficult to resist the "OH GOD"...so maybe I'll just refrain from stepping into this thread next time. Or checking Twitter, where someone tweeted about it as well... I guess it made my decision to stay up last night to watch the episode much easier, though...

I think the interpersonal relationships could still be very interesting though, if what Reina and Makina say about Kaname liking Arad is true. Amongst other things, Kaname's going to be feeling incredibly guilty about this...

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

I think the interpersonal relationships could still be very interesting though, if what Reina and Makina say about Kaname liking Arad is true. Amongst other things, Kaname's going to be feeling incredibly guilty about this...

I feel little "emotional connection" between Arad and Kaname, to be honest. Kaname agreed to spend time alone in a festival she knew was for couples with Messer and the lyrics of Axia seemed to be about her and Messer (prophetically: "I love you, but I hate not being able to get close to you" defines their relationship). Though Kaname could have been into Arad and later had been looking in Messer's direction, but she never got a chance to be close to him. Of course it ends badly.

[Mistyclear]

Is it just me but when Mikumo, Freyja and maybe Heinz saw (and then freaked) the "Ana" or hole I couldn't help but think said hole looks quite a bit like the hole on Windermere
Think they're the same thing?

[ippus]

...But...But now to whom will Keith's rune point towards ;___;
HE WAS ACTIVELY SEARCHING FOR HIM IN THE BATTLEFIELD TOO.


I don't really know how I feel about Messer's death...like a lot of things with Delta it feels halfassed. I think the only thing they managed to do well was the Messer/Kaname relation and that sort of dies with this event...assuming he is dead for dead.

I will say though I feel like this whole scene (minus death) encompassed pretty much everything I wished I felt towards the Freya/Hayate powerup a few episodes back. While it's hard to really compare a backstory event next to characters who have only recently met, I think with Messer and Kaname there was a really logical set of events set in place to warrant the connection followed by the epic wind riding. Everything they did prior to that moment mattered to why the connection was reached...

Whereas the previous Hayate/Freya thing I felt lacked it, making it feel undeserved. Again it's all just my opinion but I feel for once there's a more visual comparison to describe just how I feel.

Actually going on that tangent is sort of helping me shape just what bugs me about the death-- It makes no sense. If we are to assume that Keith and Messer were reasonably evenly matched in the past- and that the sudden resurgence of his condition was what made it hard for him in prior episodes to completely focus on fighting Keith--

The idea that after taking over his Vars syndrome followed by epic wind riding that he is still unable to beat Keith or at least live for another day seems unrealistic?

On a different note- I guess...Mikumo is an actual Macross-verse mermaid?

Also I withheld judgments last week with Axia- and I still like it. It's not hot blooded but I like the song nonetheless. I'm also glad that the non-Freyja members of Walkure (Though I guess it's just Mikumo and Kaname) are managing more than looking like backdrop settings.

[Vaans]

I never expect that to happen. Damn. Just when he's getting likable, he got off already. Kaname's expression really hits the feels there. Made me forget what happen in the first half.

Kinda wonder what exactly caused Mikumo and Freyja to fall unconscious.

Axia is a good song. I would like to hear the full version.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

Is it just me but when Mikumo, Freyja and maybe Heinz saw (and then freaked) the "Ana" or hole I couldn't help but think said hole looks quite a bit like the hole on Windermere
Think they're the same thing?

I think we just saw memories from all 3 characters:
- Freya and the burning town of Carlisle after the dimensional weapon exploded.
- Mikumo's night sky when she asked "why do I, why do people sing" (it as always been in the op might I add)
- The crater Heinz saw a few episode back, where Carlisle used to be, but a bird of view of it.

Otherwise, Mikumo and Freyja almost Fold jumped over to Carlisle by singing.

[Saint X]

Spoiler for About the Var...:

I'm thinking that Messer's control of the var is the supposed final result that anyone who is developing it is looking for- (controllable) supersoilders.

Spoiler for About crew assignements...:

If a high priority squadron like Delta can get someone as valuable as Messer off fast, i wonder if crew transfers are more superfluous in Chaos than in SMS- if so then we might expect a new Delta member depending on a lot of factors.

[Benigmatica]

Damn, Souta Hatate should have cut Messer Ihlefeld's death flag on this week's episode!

Meanwhile, the Epsilon Foundation sure has a hidden agenda regarding the Protoculture ruins and the Var outbreak. I feel that they'll point their guns at Windermere once they're done with the kingdom!

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

I feel little "emotional connection" between Arad and Kaname, to be honest. Kaname agreed to spend time alone in a festival she knew was for couples with Messer and the lyrics of Axia seemed to be about her and Messer (prophetically: "I love you, but I hate not being able to get close to you" defines their relationship).

Though Kaname could have been into Arad and later had been looking in Messer's direction, but she never got a chance to be close to him. Of course it ends badly.

Putting aside the song, which might be referring to just Messer's feelings, rather than both, I thought it was pretty clear that their 'date' was set up by Makimaki.

Kaname also clearly knows Arad's love for jellyfish snacks (episode 6, when she found and invited him to the cafeteria/mess hall for a drink (yes, the translation missed that), extending the invitation to Messer since they were together at the time). You could argue that that's just part of her usual way of interacting with Arad or that it was a ploy to try and get Messer to come along because she's interested in him...but there is another explanation that the seiyuu went into on episode 8 of the radio show, when Kaname's seiyuu was guest. I didn't really summarise that part fully, but they talk about how she tries hard to involve everyone and get them to socialise, giving the example of how she's always extending an invitation to Messer.

[Wandering Soul]

RIP Messer. He really did turn out to be one of the most likable characters in this series. I guess it wasn't the worst way to go out though. He wouldn't have been happy in his teaching post and he even acknowledges that his true place is with the Delta squad. He got to go out fighting with his squad and he went down at the hands of an opponent that at least respected him.

Delta Squad will need to find a way out of this and improve. Even with Hayate riding the wind, I doubt they are a match for Kieth at the moment.

Axia is a good song and I like how it basically summarizes Messer and Kaname's relationship.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Messer follows a line of pilots breaking women's hearts. Oh Gramia and Keith are asses for treating Heinz like that.

Mikumo, Freyja and Heinz have their Newtype moment.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

RIP Messer. He really did turn out to be one of the most likable characters in this series. I guess it wasn't the worst way to go out though. He wouldn't have been happy in his teaching post and he even acknowledges that his true place is with the Delta squad. He got to go out fighting with his squad and he went down at the hands of an opponent that at least respected him.

Delta Squad will need to find a way out of this and improve. Even with Hayate riding the wind, I doubt they are a match for Kieth at the moment.

Axia is a good song and I like how it basically summarizes Messer and Kaname's relationship.

Yeah, if you gotta go out there are worse ways I suppose. I mean the ideal result is taking your opponent with you, but such is how it goes. Still, goes out and leaves an impact on everyone as he does. Pretty well saves the day like a hero, keeps everyone around him alive and shows what he is capable of. Messer at least managed to repay his debts and protect Kaname...and the rest of the group.

Of course at the same time this could be prime trauma for Kaname to never do another solo song..... The aces are down, leader steps up to the plate....and their best pilot dies. Obviously those two things aren't connected, but feelings on events aren't always rational.

Tough times ahead for that group. At Hayate's best he's still not on the level of the last fight in this episode. Thus...they now have no one that can keep that guy busy. Going to be tough to send this group out to defend planets and fight if they can't actually hold a candle to their opponents.

[Tak]

Again, makes you wonder if Hayate is going to keep up with his ridiculous naivety.

- Tak

[cyberdemon]

I was hoping it would just be a fake out like the end of macross frontier episode 24 but then the cockpit turned red...

[Triple_R]

Beautiful episode. Tragic, but beautiful.

Basically flawless execution from start to finish. Best anime episode I've watched in a very long time, definitely Delta's best to date.

Wonderfully emotional, without feeling forced or belabored. The Kaname/Messer story was amazingly compelling given the total amount of focus/time it had.

This episode also had a great blend of charmingly comfy SoL and breathtaking battles in the skies. I've consistently enjoyed Delta's action scenes, but this is the first time I felt pumped and excited and impressed by them. They were simply glorious in this episode. Some have said that Macross Delta had yet to provide them with a memorable scene - Well, I hope this episode has changed that for some people.
Keith vs. Messer: The Final Fight, lovingly accentuated by Kaname's singing, is sure to be one of Delta's most memorable scenes for me.

Another positive aspect of this is what it does for Keith and the Windermere side. There was one issue I had with them that I had decided to keep to myself, thought it probably had been limiting my fondness of the action scenes - And this issue is that the Aerial Knights were giving me a Team Rocket (Pokemon) vibe. They'd engage Delta Squadron, do some aerial dog-fighting, give us some visual treats, but then end up flying away under Roid's orders. Notable casualties were very little or non-existent, and the Aerial Knights had yet to claim a significant kill. "I'll get you next time!" kept echoing in my ears.

Well, Episode 10 changes all of that dramatically. Keith's victory, taking out Delta Squadron's best pilot, definitely serves to make him and his Aerial Knights seem more menacing and serious. I still don't feel much sympathy for Keith and his Aerial Knights, but at least now I respect them some. I respect the very real threat they pose to our protagonists.

There's loads of potential in the aftermath to this episode. But there's also definite challenges. Messer added a lot of balance to this cast, and his relationship with Kaname had become one of the show's strongest aspects. Delta's main trio are seriously going to have to step up their game if Delta is going to continue to be an excellent show, even in Messer's absence.

But no matter what, this was an outstanding episode. Thanks to everybody that brought it to us, and special thanks to the Director/writing staff for having the guts to kill a major named protagonist. This sort of thing really helps the verisimilitude and drama of a war narrative.

[Tak]

Tears aside, I think this episode is a perfect opportunity for Hayate to grow up. Mirage knows her game, but she really needs to play it better.

Though if not for Hayate letting Boogie live, things might not have turned out this way. I doubt Hayate will ever get chewed for this, but man, do I feel he was partially responsible...

- Tak

[dmaxzero]

Finally Delta is looking like the Macross I know and like.

[charles883]

Finally Delta is looking like the Macross I know and like.

See told you guys to be patients and not jump the gun