2012-07-29, 16:45 | Link #1541 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I can imagine the BETA's Creators coming to Earth, and freak out at all the uncontrolled Carbon-based "robots" running around. |
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2012-08-10, 11:24 | Link #1546 |
Banned
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...oryofanime.jpg
I have... creative disagreements with this show. |
2012-08-10, 13:25 | Link #1547 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
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2012-08-10, 20:24 | Link #1549 |
Banned
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I'm not saying the first two episodes make the rest of Total Eclipse difficult to understand in itself, because the proper "plot" of Total Eclipse honestly isn't that hard to follow. It's shallow as all hell. It's 20 minutes a week of girls shaking their asses at the camera while cool-looking robots fight each other in training exercises completely void of any real threat or tension.
My problem is it's an absolutely baffling way to set up a series that's completely separated from the actually dangerous environment established in the first two episodes. Why even bother putting effort into it if you know you're going to stop trying the moment you get to episode 3? Hey, you know what the last series was that started as a fun moeblob romp before getting brutally serious a couple episodes in? Madoka. Do you know what separates Madoka from Total Eclipse? It actually continued to be serious and constantly built on the Mami situation, whereas this piece of crap used almost the same set up (cute girls getting eaten) as an excuse to turn the series into a mindless toy commercial. Oh, and let's not forget developing a main character with an extremely emotional origin story so she has tons of audience empathy and she's the only remotely compelling part of this snorefest, but then SURPRISE she's actually going to be a supporting character from now on! Last edited by Hagoshod; 2012-08-10 at 21:07. |
2012-08-10, 20:39 | Link #1550 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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To be fair, it's only Episode 6 (edit: fixed!) out of a two-cour series. After the teaser in the first two episodes, it's now stepped back and is going through a re-build of the characters and the plot. There is plenty of time for the story to escalate again and build tension that "lives up to" the first few episodes. The tease of the first two episodes seems to me to be precisely to remind you that something bigger is coming down the road. (I say this with no familiarity of the source material, of course; just my impression.)
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-08-10 at 21:17. |
2012-08-10, 22:03 | Link #1551 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
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@Hagoshod: ...honestly, starting very slow and building up to more serious things suddenly escalating out of the blue around the middle is something that the original Muv-Luv did too (and I presume that statement is sufficiently general as to not be considered an inappropriate game spoiler).
But you seem more upset about being somehow 'cheated' by the outright shift in tone from the first two episodes than about the idea that they're somehow going to drag out low-threat happy fun times for an entire two cours series. (Leaving aside the fact that there's sufficient precedent for other works being low urgency and training everywhere forever at the start and then running into some real plot and more serious stuff happening later.) You argue that they should have continued with the grimderp and all, but seeing as the actual source material wasn't grimderp from the very start and that's fundamentally what they have to follow, the argument should not be that they should have kept being dark and urgent from the prologue onwards, but that the prologue shouldn't have dropped right into DARKNESS if they knew they weren't going to stick with it for very long and would have to put it aside for later. You know another thing that separates Madoka from Total Eclipse? Madoka was written to be anime original right from the start so they could properly determine the course and pacing, with Total Eclipse they had to somehow try to shoehorn a mecha fanservice sidestory for gameplayers into a useable product that could at least convince new viewers to give it a go, which is not a very easy thing to do. So maybe you'd be happier if they, I don't know, started right from episode 3 straight from the beginning or something, though that would leave people a bit lost expositionwise. Or if they didn't decide to animate a sidestory about test pilots whose job is not to kill aliens but whose job is to chill out and fly prototypes around completely void of any real threat or tension besides maybe crashing from technical faults so that they can show off robots that didn't get shown in the game. Or if the exposition prologue hadn't been such a tonal shift, but then you'd have to wait even longer for anything serious to happen (and then you argue "Well they shouldn't have had anything serious happen if we would have to wait one more plot arc and an intermission for anything serious to happen again!", and they wanted to take the opportunity to fill in one of the heroines' backgrounds and establish the BETA anyway. But considering you already dropped the show long ago, I don't see why you're continuing to complain. Your views have already been aired repeatedly and responded to repeatedly. And I still dislike your insinuation that Muv-Luv fans don't know what Muv-Luv is about. Perhaps other people continuing to enjoy the show grates on your nerves or something. I guess this isn't a particularly newcomer-friendly show, that is premise-wise, exposition-wise, "reasons to give a fuck about what's happening"-wise. Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-08-10 at 22:27. |
2012-08-10, 22:52 | Link #1552 | |||
Banned
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And I'm being completely honest. Were we lost when we didn't get two episodes exploring the backstories and relationships of those people the BETA killed in the moon in 1967? No. Were we lost when we didn't get two episodes drawing out how the BETA conquered most of Europe and Russia in the 1980s? No. Were we lost when we didn't get two episodes explaining the buildup to fall of Kyushu and the fate of Dead Boyfriend-chan's boyfriend? No. So why was it absolutely necessary to tell the tragic story of this doomed cadet squadron fighting in the Battle of Kyoto in 1998, when the brutal demise of these characters and the current state of Kyoto has almost absolutely nothing to do with any of the main cast members once we hit the show's main plot of unconcerned international chuckleheads in the Middle of Nowhere, USA goofing around in simulations all day? Here's an idea. We're shown numerous scenes of the main characters hanging out in briefing rooms. Use these scenes in addition to brief flashbacks to explain what the BETA are, how they have different classes, and where they currently stand in the whole "world conquest" scene. There. I just easily found a way to deliver your plot exposition in a way that actually makes sense in the show's tone and setting. Quote:
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Last edited by Hagoshod; 2012-08-10 at 23:26. |
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2012-08-10, 23:20 | Link #1553 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
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With that said, I won't argue that replacing the first couple of episodes with random briefings throughout the first few episodes could not work in an infodump sense, depending on how well it's integrated and spread out so as to not feel like it's been shoved in for the sake of it. One of the complaints people have with the original Muv-Luv is how the plot progression comes to a screeching halt so they can sit you down in a briefing room and deliver entire lectures on the BETA, TSFs and military tactics anyway, because you were playing a pilot being lectured on critical information on the BETA he needed to know. Quote:
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But what the show simply cannot do because of the constraints of the source and what you've been arguing the show should have done to continue straight on being as apocalyptic as the second episode was onwards right all the way through. Instead, just argue they shouldn't have had the prologue at all and you'll have more success. (Which you've already done I guess) And the show has plenty of time to build back to episode 2 levels of "goddamn it we're all fucked". (Then you argue that it shouldn't have to take time to build back to that if that was how the goddamn second episode was anyway). Sorry. And again. Considering you already dropped the show long ago, I don't see why you're continuing to complain as much as you can. Your views have already been aired repeatedly and responded to repeatedly, there's not really much ground left in this discussion that hasn't already been covered. Does other people continuing to enjoy the show grates on your nerves or something? Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-08-10 at 23:37. |
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2012-08-10, 23:40 | Link #1554 |
こんにちは
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Well, to me the first two episodes did their job in introducing the series to newcomers like myself; we learn about the BETA, how the war starts, and what the TSF are. It also gives you a general idea of the situation - that there is a threat out there, and that it's not going to be sunshine and rainbows when it comes to dealing with these BETA. Heads will drop and people literally turn into snacks for these things. Basically we get a sample of what Total Eclipse is supposed to be about - a bloody war in which the conclusion can decide the fate of the entire human race, and humanity has to do everything in their power to stop this near-impossible to defeat foe - by working together to develop better and stronger weapons they call the TSF. But of course it's not always going to be about the fighting. You got to have episodes/chapters/whatever to show to the audience what kind of people your characters are, what goes on in their minds, and why they act or do the things they do...so I don't think ep. 1 and 2 are pointless. Episodes 3 to 5 so far have all been on the Yukon base, and we don't really get a sense of what this war they're talking about is from watching those alone, or why this XFJ project is so important. That is why I think ep. 1 and 2 were good for bringing us into the story in the first place.
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2012-08-10, 23:52 | Link #1555 | |||
Banned
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I don't know. You're the one calling it Titty Eclipse now. When you flip back and forth like that, you're kind of forcing me to go back to that one thing I said that one time. Quote:
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I like the first episodes. I want to see more of the Kyoto/Japan arc, or at least something that continues the same style. Now that I've seen them as my initiation into Muv-Luv, there is absolutely nothing you can do to get me to give a shit about anyone on that Alaskan base other than Yui. The entire time I'm watching them, the only thought on my mind is "Sooo... we're going to address that Kyoto thing eventually, right? RIGHT?" Why should I bash something that I like? And that's the problem. The first two episodes have essentially ruined the rest of the series for me. We abruptly cut away from Kyoto so we can watch the obnoxious shenanigans of the Alaska crew, and that's just fucking distracting. I now actively hate all of these characters when, if the show had just started from episode 3 like it should have if this was the story the animators always wanted to tell, I would just be indifferent about them because I wouldn't have earlier (and much better) material to compare them to. |
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2012-08-10, 23:52 | Link #1556 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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@DoomRavager
If you ask me, your back and forth style of argument (arguing against yourself in brackets) makes it sound like you desperately want to agree with him but your 'fan status'-triggered enjoyment of seeing the battle of Kyoto and Yui's backstory wins out or something. Hard to argue that things could pick up later when you aren't allowed to reference the source material. |
2012-08-11, 00:01 | Link #1557 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
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What was stopping them was that they couldn't get people to fund an Alternative adaptation which was what they really wanted, but eventually managed to convince sponsors to squeeze out some cash for an adaptation of a shorter sidestory i.e. Total Eclipse instead, part of which was based on using TSF sales to convince them it could work. They didn't agree to fund Alternative or their own anime-original story, they agreed to fund Total Eclipse which was seen as the least risky option financially (and the frequent off-model issues should be an indication that they are having budget issues even then).
And me calling it Titty Eclipse has nothing to do with you going back to that that one thing you said one time because even ML fans call it Titty Eclipse, seeing as Total Eclipse =/= Muv-Luv Alternative in the premise and story they're trying to tell, because it really is just expanded worldbuilding and fanservice (both of the mecha tech kind and the usual kind) for people who played Alternative. The same reason why it would be hard for any newcomer to give a crap about those dudes in Alaska if they had just dropped right in. Assuming we're referring to the same one thing from that one time, because you're not being very clear. Quote:
(is that considered inappropriate game information? I mean it's pretty vague and doesn't really give anything away. I'll delete it if it's too much.) So sorry, it's unlikely they're really going to get back to Kyoto, or the retaking of Japan, since the whole thing was originally just backstory to begin with. Certainly there'll be other large scale engagements against the BETA in the future, but they won't be about Kyoto. So when you say you want to see more of how they bounced back after Kyoto, all I can say is that I'm sorry you feel that way, and hope there'll be more BETA soon. But you've dropped the show anyway, so what does hating Argos Test Flight or any future events matter to you? @Micropod: I resent that first statement but the latter is somewhat true. Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-08-11 at 00:47. |
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2012-08-11, 00:25 | Link #1558 |
I Miss NEET Life
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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I am sure Alternative would meet the same complaints as Total Eclipse. "OMG this is like Soranowoto! With bodysuits!!!!" 6 episodes and we know it is 2 cours, and a ln reader have posted the rough outline of the ln plot. Be patient people!!
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2012-08-11, 00:43 | Link #1559 |
エーレンフェストの聖女
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
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I don't think it's wise to not air Extra first if they want to air Alternative--- which in turn, will make many people start complaining it all over again.
Anyway, it has a different type of settings than Alternative since I guess it focuses much to mecha development and their own love story.. both of which that I don't really mind following. While it seems to be going further than what the first two episodes show to us, at least it gives us some information on how terrifying the BETA is. It's more like a history briefing than giving the summary of the entire plotline for me
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action, aliens, mecha, romance, science fiction, seinen |
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